1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.

[MotownMadman]

Did anyone who was at Barrett Jackson see the driver quality 67 Baldwin Motion Phase III black Camaro? When I looked at the car it was in the post sale lot with a price of $69,995.00 on the window. Many things appeared correct on the car and some didnt. The real kicker was the letter on the dash that verified the car for what it was by Joel Rosen, if my memory serves me correctly it stated "after doing extensive research on this car and from examining the many documents provided to me from former owners I am satisfied that this is indeed a 1967 Baldwin Motion Phase III Camaro which makes it a very rare car due to the limited amount produced in 1967, Joel Rosen" So whats the story, anyone see this car or know of it? If it is real how come it is priced $100,000 to cheap, and why has no one bought it? Charlie?
Motown

[bilede]

I saw this car about 2 weeks ago for sale at $68k and was told by others that the car is suspect and was originally a small block car and nicb and previous owners say it was never close to motion.. the letter is a copy of one from another car.. I thought it sounded real nice though, would be a great driver to have fun with..

[Charley Lillard]

I believe that is the car that had two letters. One that it was and one that it wasn't...Cool car though.

[MotownMadman]

Charley,
I didnt see you at the auction, saw Bill wandering around...the very first thing I drooled over that was there was the Yale bikes.....I got some good pics to prove it. If you need any help with your new piece of motorcycle history let me know as I believe I have some printed literature and general history on these bikes, no doubt yours in particular. I have a friend that offered the seller more for those bikes then what they sold for a few months back, if you ever get tired dusting it let me know and I should be able to set you up with a buyer for profit.
Motown

[427TJ]

Are you talking about this car? This one was on eBay over a year ago. I think it's from Texas.

[MotownMadman]

Hard to tell from one photo, the one I looked at had vintage magnesium 5 spokes that to a degree became a benchmark in the industry. The car I looked at had the correct Motion emblems on the rear portion of the front fenders just above the cross flags and the body line. A third emblem was dead center on the rear spoiler, only visible from behind. The valve covers each had a emblem, "Motion". The car in your photo seems to have a blue interior while the other was black, also the baffled type side pipes were on the car for sale. I am not positive but I think the scoop on the hood was red. Things that cant be seen in your photo is the car had frame connectors added, as well as bolt on traction bars which was odd since the rear axle housing still had the bracket welded in place for a passenger side traction bar. It had mono leaf springs, did Motion add muti-leaf? The hood had the correct underside structure as an original, not at all similar to the current reproductions available. Also had solid motor mounts and the driver side mount was taller. Had a correct BB heater box, which it and anything else discussed here could have been added at anytime. The hood pins seemed correct and had the right placement. Overall, everthing I mentioned here could have been added to the car in the photo, the interior color change seems like it would have been a major change with no benefit as far as proving the car to be a Motion. The car also had the correct hood springs for a lightweight glass hood. Charlie, I am sure you noticed the letter contained the VIN, but that also could have been nothing more then some trick work with a copy machine. Short of contacting Joel for a re-verification I dont see a way to decide the cars pedigree either way. The thing that lends non-credibility to the car is why priced so far under current market for a true "Baldwin Motion" car, which would also increase the desirability and value over a "Motion" conversion from another dealer or private individual. If it is real we all missed the boat. Anyone know an approximate number of 67 Phase Three cars to exist with documentation?
Motown

[PxTx]

Sounds like it was a car dressed for auction as the "Motion" emblems were not used in 67. Probably not a correct resto or the car was later sent to motion for work.

[resto4u]

Is this the same car that was sold at the kruse auction in indiana? Was bought, and shipped to owner in OK. Then later bought back by kruse, was not real. Roger

[JoeC]

not sure if it is the same car but there has been a black 67 Camaro dressed like a Motion car bounceing around the country for sale at diffent locations. The car I am thinking of has a lot of issues.

[MotownMadman]

Joe,
If this car is a fraud which it sounds like, I would think that Joel would take issue with the forged letter that is displayed with the car with Joel's signature. The letter looked genuine enough, I have several printed Motion items with Joel's signature, from a visual perspective the signature appeared real. If the letter was for another car as Charlie said, I would think more then one law is being violated for adding in the VIN from this car, and since the car is being advertised and or sold in different areas of the US across state lines it becomes a Federal issue. Anyone here capable of asking Joel about this situation so this can possibly be brought to a halt before someone shells out the $$$$$ on a fake? If this car is already known as a fake on the circuit how did it end up at Barrett Jackson to begin with? Does BJ have any type of screening process on these cars? After reading about the LS-6 Chevelle Charlie had posted on and now this car, why is it that BJ is not flooded with litigation? I didnt see this Camaro go across the block but after seeing these bright light bulb announcers in action I would bet they described this as an actual Motion car, if they even knew what a Motion car was. I would think that if Southebys or Christies were selling fake Picasso's they would not be in business long. With the value of these cars approaching fine art at some point the pedigree of the car and the accuracy of the description will have to be correct and concise or it is just a matter of time before the big classic car auction firms go under due to unethical and illeagal transactions. Any thoughts or opinions on this?
Thanks,
Motown