70 Judge RAIV and V continuation - Page 10

Steve_Hoog · #91 11-25-2003, 04:09 AM

Rita that is some good work, I wish you would post the entire article and source. I have HPP April 84 that has RAM AIR V Machine Behind The Myth, but pages 29-35 are gone. Just so happens to be right where the article was, I had a bad habit of hanging the cool pics on my shop wall. No doubt where they went.

The Y is identical in the stamp style, and what little you posted partially answers some of my questions.

You have assumed too much with Gary's engine though. I have looked and looked at the pic he gave me, I can't tell if it's a 3, 5, 6, or 8; and I'm leaning towards the 8. It looks like it turns back up where the two circles meet. Too much guess work on how they came about with the numbers, sequential or however they did it.

The only for sure way to know, would be for Gary to tell us the unknown digit and more important the date code. A third engine to reference would be nice too, I'm still trying to track down a lead on that right now.

MrsBillyBobcat · #92 11-25-2003, 04:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You have assumed too much with Gary's engine though. I have looked and looked at the pic he gave me, I can't tell if it's a 3, 5, 6, or 8; and I'm leaning towards the 8. It looks like it turns back up where the two circles meet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first digit has to be a "6" since they only made a couple hundred motors. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Steve_Hoog · #93 11-25-2003, 04:29 AM

Did you go back and look at The Little Big GTO book that I referenced? Some descrepincies on the amounts from that, compared to the 200 usually talked about.

They do not have to all be in order, anything is possible with GM. Not matter what Gary's turns out to be, a few more RAV blocks to reference would be nice.

What about the block in your car?

Oh, and that article looks like Classic GTO newsletter print. Is that where it's from?

Steve_Hoog · #94 11-25-2003, 04:54 AM

Since the RAV's are hard to come by; if anyone out there has blocks close enough to the numbers here below, please post them so we can see if there is a method to the way they do this. Both of these are out of the original vehicles, and I have no reason to think they are tampered with:

69 GTO 400 YS 0582823 Date code 0049 block 9790071
68 GP 428 YH 164333 Date code 1157 block 9792968

Jeff H · #95 11-25-2003, 12:35 PM

Good work Rita, that is what I was suggesting for someone to look into. That engine production number along with the block date should help shed some light. I would guess the NICB should have the shipping date for that Judge as well so if the engine was built after the car was shipped, that should clinch it. Can anyone verify the ship date? I could see where a car could sit for a while like some of the COPO's did when components weren't available.

Steve_Hoog · #96 11-25-2003, 01:21 PM

OK, hold on a second. As I was walking through the parking lot I was thinking, we never suggested the car was built with the motor. We have been told that it was put in the car after production, in engineering. I don't know how long engineering typically had a car, but in the middle of winter there wouldn't be much hurry. Certainly for a car intended for the strip.

The date of when Knafel took delivery would be crucial. And we are still working off of Rita's theroy about the date code, that may not be right.

I personally have waited 6 months after ordering a GMC, because they were out of 5 speed tranny's. So the car waiting in engineering for a couple of months may not be to far out of reach.

I threw up the window sticker on the GMC just for grins, was an awesome truck!!

GTO_DON · #97 11-25-2003, 01:40 PM

First of all ,forget the big little gto book! That book has so many things wrong in it ,its not funny, I THINK YOUR BEATING A DEAD HORSE HERE STEVED, IM TRYING TO BE SUBJECTIVE. Ofcourse all the block production numbers are going to be in order. Honestly,i cant understand why its so important for you to make this car real! Everytime somebody comes up with another fact,you dismiss it and say'you never know with pontiac" ask gary to publish everthing about htis car including trim tag info and miles on the odometer. Im sure this car should have no more than 5,000 original miles on it if its had a ra v in it since new. im sure it was not an everyday car. how many owners has it had ? Are they still alive? I know if i would have bought that car new,id have every piece of paperwork on it.Is Does this car belong to Gary Daniels? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Steve_Hoog · #98 11-25-2003, 01:47 PM

Don this is from your last post:

"SR ON IT FOR SERVICE REPLACEMENT! NO CODES. ITS PLAIN TO SEE SOMEBODY STAMPED THAT BLOCK YOU HAVE [OTHER THAN PONTIAC]THATS WHY THAT JUDGE WILL NEVER TURN OUT TO"

Rita's research kinda put the slame dunk on your opinions, you are now null and void.

L67WT1 · #99 11-25-2003, 01:48 PM

Steved, you need to reread the original thread the question from Astock asked "the question is how many factory ram air V Judges were produced [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]" You also implied this was a factory Ram Air V car, quoting the memo notation as proof on the PHS docs.

I believe Mrs. Billybobcat to be correct about the engine serial production number being an ordered sequence and that with only a handful of these engines produced for over the counter use it would make perfect sense that the number is a 6. You get all these other pics but not a date code?

This is the never ending post there have been many noted authorities like Jim M. and I believe an engineer from the engine shop that stated that this engine was never installed at the factory or engineering, but dealer installed.

What else do we need here the second coming? Unless a buildsheet, protecto plate, or an engineering change order that shows that code or serial production code is produced (from a legitimate source) it will always be looked upon as a dealer installed option, which I think is really cool and a unique piece of Pontiac history, a rare car with possible race history with a very rare engine.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread but it is now like beating a dead horse we all need to agree to disagree and the majority of Poncho fans know what the real deal is.

Steve_Hoog · #**100** 11-25-2003, 02:05 PM

I believe it has been mentioned several times it is the responsibilty for the car to be proved.

Even though Rita is trying to dis-prove it, atleast she is doing something. And with here article post, pretty much smacked Don upside his head with his accusation of fraud. I wasn't going to go back on that; but since Don decided to step back in, there it is.

It would still be nice to get some perspective on the block codes, regarless of the RAV debate. I don't suppose you have a Pontiac block that you could add some insight with?

Dedicated to the Promotion and Preservation of American Muscle Cars, Dealer built Supercars and COPO cars.