Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?

[copo9566aa]

I'm working pesently on a Jeep CJ7 with a Fiberglass Tubb
I'm moving the VIN of the orginal metal body to the fiberglass body [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
This is not a collector car.But the move is the same.
This is a legitimate reason [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
This is acceptable or it is unacceptable
Or this is a felony.

Eh
for a girl a rebody is acceptable or unaceptable

just kidding! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Unreal]

Just for the record, I believe a car with replaced quarters is no longer an original car. We're not talking about original, but rather where acceptable practice stops, and unacceptable practice begins.

There is no accepted limitation to how much of a car can be replaced. The hobby says it's OK to replace the dash, where the VIN is located. Some say cut out and reweld the area around the VIN tag to the new dash panel. Same goes for the hidden partial VIN areas. It's OK to replace every other piece of the car, one piece or one "assembly" at a time.

So taken to the extreme, you have an original driveline Yenko, that was so rusty, that when you wrecked it, you destroyed every piece of sheet metal.

You pull the engine, tranny, and rear and put them aside.
Then you build a fixture to support the VIN tag area, and the two partial VIN stamp areas, and weld them to the fixture. You then cut away all the bad stuff, leaving only the three VIN areas suspended in thin air. Now you take a donor car position it where the original one was, cut out the three VIN areas, and weld the original ones in, just as you would if you were changing the dash panel, or firewall.

So, in the example above, we have not rebodied the car, we have replaced one large "assembly" [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

If that "assembly" is too big to be considered acceptable practice, and one piece at a time (or some lesser assembly) is considered acceptable, where's the line?

If you think I'm being rediculous, then I've made my point.

[Belair62]

I think you made your point.

[TimG]

One important note is that the Bloomington Judges did not approve restamped engines nor did NCRS. This misconception has been stated a number of times. Neither judging forum approves restamped engines or cars with replaced trim tags. They make every effort to detect these cars with the master pad library that is kept by Al Greening and the the new data on trim tags that is also kept by Al. Bloomington and NCRS both know that with the improved methods of restamping available today that they have no choice but to pass an engine if they feel it appears as typical factory configuration. Bloomington has a penalty box that states that a car may not go Gold if either the casting date, casting number, assembly code or VIN number on the block are not of typical factory configuration. If it is undetectible, it must pass unless there is prior knowledge of the engine being restamped.
NCRS will allow points for each of the areas and an engine will not be knocked out of Top Flight contention if it does not have the correct VIN, for example. NCRS gives the car owner the option of removing his car from the event if the judges smell a rat. That way the bad news is not documented on the judging sheet.
They do and will bust engines at these events as was the case at the Waco NCRS Regional a few weeks ago. I was there judging and I also presented a car for judging.
There is flexability in the judging event. I presented a 16,900 mile 1965 Corvette with an engine that had its pad reground at the factory. This was the first time for this car to be judged and I was a wreck about what would be determined. On top of this, Al Greening, master judge and trusted keeper of the master pad library was the engine judge on my car. Al looked at me during judging and said that judging my car was like a judging school for him. He took photos of my pad as an excellent example of an original factory regrind and noted on the judging sheets, "nice original engine".

[Stefano]

Tim,
Please explain the "factory" regrind Situation as I have heard this discussed numerous times by Corvette Judges, but have yet to see an example with Camaros?

[Mike]

Have any of you checked your casting numbers lately? I've heard horror stories of casting numbers being modified or remolded with epoxy to make them something they weren't originally!!

Give it a tap with a screw driver....see what happens! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Mark_C]

There is no such thing as a "Restored Original" car. It's one or the other. Car's are only "original" once, they can be restored as many times as needed.

This question comes around every so often, and what it really comes down to is money. Some people feel it's easier (ie cheaper) to rebody a car seen as worth a pile of dough, be it a ZL1, Motion, Nickey etc because it has some value that can be recouped in the future. Because of a perceived chance to either get your money back or make some in the process it is justifiable to the swapper. If you wouldn't invest the same time and effort to restore a 6 cylinder coupe with a powerglide and a ten bolt, your doing it for the money, in my opinion. Your not doing it for any higher calling no matter what kind of justification offered. Any car that is to far gone to be saved by component replacement should be given a proper burial.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

That has certainly happened, a little tap with a screwdriver and the date code came off! Nice 'bondo' date on a 512 block.

[TimG]

Stefano,
The factory regrinds are very interesting and there are a number of articles published by Al Greening on the subject.
When the assembly date/code was stamped on the pad at the engine assembly factory, often times there were errors made by the person hitting the gang.
Sometimes as in late 1967, they took non Corvette motors and converted them to 327/300 HP Corvette motors. The person that made the "hit" also had a powerful hand grinder available to quickly grind the surface clean and correct the error that was made or make a necessary change. This is still being done today on the engine assembly line. Speculation was that a worker may have pulled the wrong gang and incorrectly stamped a motor with the wrong code. It needed to be corrected and the procedure was to take the powerful hand grinder and within 10 seconds clean the numbers off the pad. Of course, this wipes out the broach marks and the resuting marks run most of the length of the pad. As the ID number of the car has not been hammered on the pad at this point, only part of the pad is ground. These guys did this many times in one day according to most sources and they got good at it. The traits are similar on factory regrinds, it is just hard to prove that a particular grind was done at the factory. Fortunately, my car is a very original car with the security/warranty gaskets still in place on the engine (these gaskets were only used on the assembly line and are not reproduced, this was the way Chevrolet determined if an engine had been tampered with) It becomes tough when a fuel injected car is restored and it shows up at an event with a reground pad.
Many times it is not given full points. In many cases people shy away from a pad that has been ground and restamped at the factory. With the master pad library, it is possible to compare a stamp on an engine with a stamp on an engine in a similar range to see if the stamps are similar. When I found my car, I was hesitant to buy it because of the grind, but after inspecting the car I thought it may be an asset as it had to happen at the factory. There were many master judges and photographers looking at the pad all weekend. Some may say it's silly although I really enjoy these unusual things about cars.
And yes, some casting numbers, dates are done with epoxy and these do not last long when a block is cleaned. What a mess.

[68TopStock]

This post reminds me of a childs bedtime story, about a toy bunny that wanted to become "real". When it had become worn out, and thown out, it magically became "real". All a big fantasy. That is my humble opinion regarding "rebody restorations".