ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?

[JoeC]

Only one 70 Camaro race car as far as I know

There was a 70 Camaro Grumpy's Toy VII that was more like a street/show car not a race car.

It had a ZL1 engine and 4 speed , straight bumper car. It had a prototype steel L88 hood that Chevy gave to Bill Jenkins for the car.

The 1970 COPO ZL1 Camaro that never made production

I have the hood to it so I am always looking for pictures of Grumpy's Toy VII

[EZ Nova]

Removed at request of the admin

[William]

And therein lies the fundamental problem with old race cars.

Too many owners, too many modifications, tags gone, sketchy histories, no documentation. Several obvious recreations being paraded around as the 'real car'.

Those who have been on the sites for a long time may remember the Dick Harrell '68 Camaro FC mess.

[Mr70]

Yup..

[DW31S]

Originally Posted by William

And therein lies the fundamental problem with old race cars.

Too many owners, too many modifications, tags gone, sketchy histories, no documentation. Several obvious recreations being paraded around as the 'real car'.

Those who have been on the sites for a long time may remember the Dick Harrell '68 Camaro FC mess.

I'd say "SOME" old race cars. There are existing originals that are fully documented and have never been torn apart, destroyed, or left to biodegrade into the earth; some are still in competition. I will agree that quite a few bogus cars are, or have been, portrayed as the real thing and those imposters may cloud the judgment concerning period race cars in general. It's sad, indeed, but the entire hobby is rife with illegitimate examples of race cars, muscle cars, classic cars, etc.
And yes, the 1968 DH FC is a prime example....and the 1970 GT probably will be in due time.

[William]

Agreed.

A great example of a famous race car that maintained its identity is ZL1 #1. Still has its VIN and body tags, known history.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

It's not difficult to determine a car's provenance. The story either lines up and is easily verified by facts or it doesn't, it's that simple. If its questionable don't over pay, and therein lies the problem. Buyer's sometimes lack knowledge. Much like the stock market do research and invest what you can afford to lose.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

Probably better to get this thread back on track, after all its titled ZL-1 vs Can Am.

So I'll help to refocus this thread with this offering. Jenkins most successful big block, and what is arguably the Holy Grail of Rat motors. Bill Jenkins Can Am 430 won multiple Super Stock titles and match races before winning the first ever Pro/Stock race. This famous engine won literally hundreds of matches in Grumpy's Toys IV, VI and VIII before being converted to a 495 inch match race monster.

Reynolds Aluminum cast only 70 of these very special big bore (4 7/16") 395 alloy Can Am blocks. Sixty went to the 3 Can Am teams and 10 went to drag racers, Jenkins initially received 3 of the blocks but in the end may have ended up with as many as 5.

This also happens to be the engine Robert Calzaretta so graciously sold to me and one of the pieces I am excited to have Steve Shauger discuss with me when we talk about GT VIII.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

Figured I might as well follow up with the actual difference between the 427 Zl-1 and the GM/Reynolds 430 Can Am in Bill Jenkins words from a 1970 article.

Source: Super Stock & Drag Illustrated July 1970

Jenkins was asked "can the standard 427 be competitive against the 430 or Can Am short stroke engine in Pro/Stock."

Jenkins replied: The Hp difference is negligible. It's the range with the 430 that makes the difference. He continued, the difference is 10 - 15 at peak and the peak for the 427 is 7,200 and +7,500 for the 430. At 7,200 there is no difference and at 7,600 - 7,700 the 430 makes 10 - 15 more hp than the 427 at 7,200. The 427 is definitely downhill at 7,700 - 7,800 being approximately -40 Hp say from 660 - 620.

The 430 climbs from 7,200 with about the same power to say 10 hp more at 7,500 and then maybe 15 hp more at 7,700; at 8,000 it is back to about the 7,500 power output.

SS & DI then asked how many of these engines are there ? Jenkins replied, 70 blocks were cast and distributed among 10 different Can Am teams and 6-10 of the blocks were given to potential or actual drag race users.

Note: very few Can Am blocks were cast with fuel pump bosses but the majority of all the early Can Am blocks were sleeved.

Note: Jenkins eluded to Reynolds experimenting with linerless blocks to increase bore size to 4.500.

I'd like to add that these engines weigh in the mid 400 lbs. range and when the mcLaren M8D/3 was subsequently tested by ex-F1 driver and double Le Mans winner JJ Lehto, the Finn declared M8D/3 to be “the fastest thing I have ever driven…”

[Carleen]

What you have there is an Experimental / Prototype Block.
They start with 0- and I have heard that only 20 Block were made of 0-326711 and they were cast -68. In 1969 3946052 - 3946053 Can Am Block were produced