???

[Stuart Adams]

I've always wanted to ask the gurus this question. There seems to be a double standard when it comes to #'s matching or original equipment. If a supercar has non original equipment but is documented as a supercar then the originality of components doesn't seem to mean much as long as its restored with the correct components and #'s put back on particular components. But if a 69 Z or others doesn't have original equipment even though its documented (POP), etc., and put back to its original state with correct numbers the car community views this as voodoo or the car takes a beating with comments etc., even though the car is legit. This thread is in no way directed at us members, I just want some candid honest thoughts on this puzzling issue that many people are stuck on. Now if a car is faked thats bunk but lets compare apples to apples.
Kenny - awesome 69 Z.

[Supercar_Kid]

I think it comes down to simple supply and demand. "Supercars" are in very low supply and in great demand, so when a "Supercar" is found less engine, trans, rear, etc. it makes sense to substitute these parts with the next best thing, i.e. date specific castings, CE blocks, re-stamped parts, etc. When the car is "complete" again it's value should at least warrant the efforts put forth (tracking down $$$ parts etc.) to make it that way. Since there is so much demand for the ultra rare Supercars, even a reconstituted example will still attract many eager buyers and be looked at as a good collectible car. While the same scenario can and does apply to lesser cars like Z/28's, Super Sports, etc. they are simply not rare enough for everyone to overlook their shortcomings (incorrect parts, non-factory intstalled parts, re-stamped parts, etc.) for them to be seen as valuable purchases. The car carrying non-factory installed parts (re-stamped parts, over the counter parts, etc.) is always the lesser car, sometimes it's just not as detrimental to the car's overall value if it is so rare that few "correct" examples exist, i.e. lack of substitutes. Take the '69 ZL-1 Camaros for example, very few of these cars have their original drivetrains, but they are still very valuable and coveted cars nonetheless. Simply because they are so rare that a NOM ZL-1 is enough for most, while undoubtedly the unmolested #'s car will be worth significantly more. Also keep in mind that some lesser cars like Z/28's and SS models may already be looked at by some buyers as a cost effective substitute for a "supercar." For this reason many of them are only willing to buck up for a pefect unmolested example. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of people waiting to throw $ down for a NOM Z/28 or SS, but it's just not to the same degree as those people who have been waiting for a chance to find that ultra rare Supercar. Look at it like you'd look at anything else of rarity, if you were looking for dinosaur you'd pretty much take anything you found and you'd be happy. If you were only looking for an alligator you might wait around for just the right one with all it's original teeth etc. In the supercar world, you take what you can get when you can get it, JMO.

[Stuart Adams]

Excellent, thank you.

[Pantera]

This discussion raises questions in my mind about the 2 Baldwin Cars that I own. #1 is the first Phase III vette that Joel made and is on the cover of CAR's Magazine back in '69. I only have 45,000 mi on it and in my eyes, is not needing to be totally dismantled and restored. I feel that is worth more as a surivor car with as much just the way it came from Joels shop when new. The #2 '70 car is a 15,000 mi car and even though the LS-7 is long gone now, I am tryijng to piece one back togther to go in it. Of course any motor that goes into it would be correct as it was factory delivered with a 390 hp 454 and Joel put the LS-7 crate motor in it. Other than that it is totally still the way it came from Joel except for the flex fan blade sticking through the hood. I will not ever take this car down to the last bolt. It is almost as new as Kevins Camaro but with the distinction of having the original BOS from Baldwin Chev. and original paint that is now bad. It still smells like new leather when you open the door.

So my question and delima is just which way to go. I think the original unmolested cars are someday going to be worth more than any pieced together "real supercar". I think I will do a extremely detailed repaint of both of these cars back to Motion new and try to take them back as close as I can to what they were when new. With no more miles on them than they have; they don't need to be totally dismantled and I think I will just repair with correct vintage parts anything that is wrong and do a very full and correct paint job, by pulling the doors and hood. Hell there is really no need to take them off the frame and destroy the factory markings and such. If they were off the frame there is very little on a Vete that I can paint off the frame, that I can't paint with the body on the frame. Just will take a little more masking to perserve the undercariage.

Just wondering what you guys think? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

A good original question/post, look forward to other responses, unless it has been answered as well as it can?

Mike

[Charley Lillard]

I think I would leave em alone and not paint them. But then I don't have to look at them everyday either.

[55chevy]

Start by cleaning them up and try and preserve as much originality as you can. But you might need to put some new side pipes on that white one Larry. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Let me know when you're ready to dig 'em out of there.