ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

[prototype]

We all have our passions for the hobby and our intentions are noble, but sometimes our passions get the best of us. Based on discussions with Charley, George and I, it was agreed that some of the posts which were personal in nature, not respectful or specific to this topic will be removed or edited. Ultimately we felt it was in the best interest of the hobby, the site and our members to do so.

Steve Shauger



Summary: Outstanding total restoration of one of the rare factory ZL1 '69 Camaros. Very well documented including owner history from new and a very positive Cuneen Report. Recent service and detail to be as new and surely one of the best in existence.
Details: An outstanding example of one of the original COPO ZL1 aluminum block 427 Camaros, this particular car is #9 of the total production run of 69 cars produced. This car is very well documented from its original delivery to Fred Gibb Chevrolet of LaHarpe, Illinois, the dealer that spearheaded the original concept of an all-aluminum motor ZL1 Camaro.Included with this car is an amazing collection of historical documentation including the Dealers Shippers copy of the original window sticker, the customer copy of the original bill of sale, a copy of the Chevrolet MSO and much more. Having been through a very expensive, cost-no-object restoration, this particular ZL1 Camaro is "one of the finest in existence", exactly as it states in the accompanying Cuneen report by Ed Cuneen of COPO Connection. Only the highest quality components were used in this restoration with a strong emphasis on New Old Stock pieces instead of more readily available reproduction items. A GM factory assembled body shell was used to correct the extensive body modifications performed during this cars long term drag race history. Look beyond the show-quality paint, beautifully-fitted body and flawless-trim to see one of the most top notch Camaro restorations in the world. The workmanship employed to complete this car is the best you will find and the direction to recapture assembly line correct details is evident throughout the entire car, in particular with engine compartment and chassis assemblies. The Cuneen Report that is included with this car features extensive photography and a certification of numbered and coded components. While this car has been driven only a few miles since completion, it has been mechanically sorted and performs flawlessly with no issues needing attention. Offered here today by collector George Lyons of Erie, Pennsylvania, this 1969 ZL1 Camaro is stunning, highly documented, correctly restored example from this historic run of just 69 cars.


I've got three kids and spent a lot of time with the Where's Waldo books and I've got to say that after reading this auction description it's one in the same.

There is only one sentence that is buried in the middle of the description that leads one to believe that something is wrong. Why does it have to be a case of "buyer beware"? I just don't understand why a company the size of Barrett would risk selling a car with a description like this but I guess I can answer my own question.....money.

What happens if the purchaser challenges the description of a car like this? Would Barrett kick the car back to the seller and charge all of the fees applicable because they did not write the description or do they take responsibility (or possibly write the description themselves) and just return the car to the seller?

At the end of the day we all want these cars to be around and I have no problem with documented cars that existed being resurrected.

For crying out loud just call it what it is.........I feel like I'm back in kindergarten looking for Waldo.

[mockingbird812]

The description is very straight forward that the car has been rebodied. I do not see deception in this description.

[resto4u]

It does not say re-body either. It says a gm body was used to correct drag racing modifications. To me that means a good gm body was cut apart and spliced in at some place on the original body.

[GeorgeLyons]

I find it interesting that Waldo read the description and understood the disclosure but seems to think it is still not clear. Having received over 20 Emails and phone calls in response to this final description, I am happy to report he is the only one I have heard from that is confused. Thank You again for the positive comments on the car and please stop by in Arizona if you are able. Happy New Year, George

[prototype]

If I were a new guy interested in this hobby/business I'd appreciate a description that simply spelled things out. I've been around for a while and can "read between the lines", not everyone has that luxury though.

I think it was the Corvette guys that wanted to get to the bottom of whether their cars were correct or not and I believe the term "numbers matching" started. For me "numbers matching" meant that the motor was the original. This then expanded to the tranmission, differential and so on. Then descriptions got creative and sellers said to themselves well I looked at the casting number on the block and it's numbers matching (when the actual case was the motor was out of another car but the casting numbers are correct for the vehicle).

I've never seen this particular car and I'm sure that the quality of the work is top shelf but I just don't think it is fair to potential buyers when you have to read and re-read a description to understand what it is that you are really buying.......

For me the accepted term is a rebodied car.

[x Baldwin Motion]

some may find these threads confusing as the sellers original description is still out for all to see. He has posted this correction almost a month ago.

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;My original research prior to my purchase was NOT correct on what was done to this car in restoration to correct both Drag Race modifications and rust damage. Another body shell, a rust and damage free Norwood shell was used in the restoration. Where this shell was mated to the numbered/dated cowl firewall is still something I am chasing and may have photographs soon to document this. Either way, the body is NOT what I originally was told or what I posted previous</span>ly.</span>


this info is also posted <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;...This is a car that was restored by Floyd Garrett and he will be the first to tell you he had to replace the body because the orig. was too far gone. He makes no bones about it....&quot;</span></span>

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...251&amp;page=4

[Mr70]

George
I don't know you personally,but through your replies on this great website,I've always had a certain respect for what you buy &amp; sell...until now.
I really think you coulda worded that one sentence a whole lot better and been alot more clearer with that one detail then that.That's the most nieve way to skate around saying something has been Re-bodied,that I have ever seen.Especially after 4 pages here on that earlier thread,of you taking us along with you as you find out it's true history &amp; telling us you'll be honest &amp; upfront about it,and that's how you describe it to potential B-J bidders?

I can't really find blame with B-J today,as even they listed it as a re-body a few years ago,so I would imagine you told them what to write today.........right?


<span style="font-style: italic"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Auction Co: Barrett-Jackson
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Date: January 14, 2006

Lot # 1322. S/N 124379N608879. Cortez Silver/black vinyl. 427-ci V8, 4-bbl, auto. 69 total produced, this is #9 of the 50 built for Fred Gibb to homologate for racing. Fitted with aluminum heads and ZL1 aluminum block—Chevy's first. A $4,160 option, COPO 9560. Originally it was a drag car, but was rebodied and restored to a high level. Well-known in Camaro circles, and blessed by Ed Cuneen, the Camaro COPO guru. Cond: 1.&quot;</div></div></span>

For the most part,there's nothing wrong with saving a collectible vehicle from the crusher by re-bodying it if there's no other way,but it's got to be publicly announced as such.

[foster]

george very well said few of these menbers on this site gets a little finger happy!!!!!!!!! so i agree 110% with george who ever has not seen this car in person needs to go to BJ

[Stuart Adams]

The mission statement is for the promotion and preservation of the super cars. Great site and a wealth of info.

I'm sure there are a lot of ghosts in closets.

The word rebody sucks, IMO.

Beautiful car, hope both parties involved are happy when it sells. That would be fantastic.

[Steve Shauger]

A point I would like make is not many cars are untouched survivors. I would estimate survivors account for less than 1%. The remaining 99% are cars restored to various degrees. A concours restoration on a car that is severely damaged from an accident, modifications or the elements is a huge task. It takes skilled craftsmen to resurrect these cars from the ashes. Simply using a donor body and grafting in VIN’s from the original car (which I define as a rebody), is the easy way out and obviously should be a last resort. What is clear in this discussion is that if you are purchasing a car that has been restored you need a detailed portfolio with pics of each step and phase in the process showing what has been done. In the example we have been discussing a full upfront disclosure by the seller would have prevented the 5 pages of posts.

I guess I like restorations the old fashion way, with skilled craftsmen resurrecting these cars, while maintaining as much original integrity as possible. There are no shortcuts when correctly restoring a car. And kudos to the restorers that have the ability, knowledge and skills to bring these cars back to life. There are many fine examples that are just breathtaking.