Auctions in general

[sYc]

A few observations about auctions in general from the cheap seats.

!. IMO, shill bidding is not a good thing, even if in the contract. Rather then use a shill to push the bid up to the reserve, why not start the bid at the reserve (which should be the least amount the owner will take for the car), not some inflated figure.

2. Why is it fair for one seller to be charged 4% because their car did not reach reserve, but another person pay10% because their car did? The one who put a realistic reserve on their car is being penalized.

3. If you hope to get 250 for your car, which is what the reserve should be, but would rather pay 4% commission instead of 10%, why not put the reserve at 350, so when the bidding stalls at 250ish, the auction house agrees to drop their commission rate if you will drop your reserve. On $250,000, the difference between 4% and 10% would be $15,000.

[firstgenaddict]

Great observations... just to re-iterate... shill bidding (by anyone) sucks and does not give true indications of what a car is worth... if one of the bidders is not going to buy the vehicle then using him to push the bid is unethical at the least.

[MosportGreen66]

Agreed on the points above... Here is my question...

The auction house shill bids up to (but not beyond) the reserve price... what is stopping the seller from ditching the reserve right then and there? Assuming the bidding ends there, who then owns the car? The auction company?

-Dan

[Mr70]

Why don't they have silent auctions.
99.9% of the people @ auctions are just onlookers in the way anyway.
All registered/interested parties get to FF any vehicle they are interested in.Walk around it,open the hood,open the doors,get under it,etc.
Have the seller of the vehicle standing right next to it to,to answer any pertinent questions if need be.
Then all interested parties write down the maximum amount they would pay for said vehicle,no more,no less,and personally hand it over to a panel of unbiased witnesses at a table,where they are recorded,all by a pre determined time.
They in turn announce the winning amount & hand the title over to the highest offer,IF the reserve is met.
No shouting gavel master or his minions running around either..Nothing personal Amy.

[PeteLeathersac]

I was gonna' stay out of any more of this whole auction thing as to be honest, I'm totally disgusted w/ the blatant 'auction realitites' some of us have come to grips with after reading these recent postings...feels like when I found out Santa wasn't real?.

I PERSONALLY feel a lot of sellers who allow and take part in these kinds of trickery at auction are the same groups who've created and/or brought bogus cars to offer and could care less how anything goes or turns out as long as they get $$ in the end?.
These same types are already there as they need the quick decisions that must be made by buyers under the gun of time and cameras...perhaps even prefer the BS to go on so as to help further cloud the waters thus having a better chance that nobody will ever want to make available and examine any specifics of these kinds of sales?.

After reading all the threads (existing and deleted) also the above observations and comments, I can't help but feel there's still many genuine guys out here/there who have the REAL cars and nothing to hide that could support an auction company who doesn't operate in these clandestine ways...perhaps much like Rick suggests above?.

Also, regardless of what name you call it, isn't shill bidding a felony in many if not most States...I believe it is here in most Canadian Provinces?.

Or maybe I'm wrong w/ all of this...yes, yet again?.

~ Pete


PS - Amy=.

[Xplantdad]

Whaddya mean Santa's not real?

I agree with Tom...If it's a reserve auction...then start the auction at the reserve amount!

[southernfriedcj]

[ QUOTE ]
Whaddya mean Santa's not real?

I agree with Tom...If it's a reserve auction...then start the auction at the reserve amount!

[/ QUOTE ]

I no expert by any means, but I think that starting the bidding low (well below the reserve) gets the excitment going and may get some folks to bid higher than they would have otherwise(auction fever if you will). I have seen people pay higher than retail at bankrupcy auctions for some items(no automotive, just general stuff).
I have paid past my self imposed limit on a few things. I didn't want to miss out on a <font color="orange">GoManGo </font> Challenger T/A over a couple thousand bucks.

[budnate]

and a little enclosed side road to have the seller drive you in the rig and see if it actualy drives right , great idea!!

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't they have silent auctions.
99.9% of the people @ auctions are just onlookers in the way anyway.
All registered/interested parties get to FF any vehicle they are interested in.Walk around it,open the hood,open the doors,get under it,etc.
Have the seller of the vehicle standing right next to it to,to answer any pertinent questions if need be.
Then all interested parties write down the maximum amount they would pay for said vehicle,no more,no less,and personally hand it over to a panel of unbiased witnesses at a table,where they are recorded,all by a pre determined time.
They in turn announce the winning amount &amp; hand the title over to the highest offer,IF the reserve is met.
No shouting gavel master or his minions running around either..Nothing personal Amy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[rubbinisracing]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't they have silent auctions.
99.9% of the people @ auctions are just onlookers in the way anyway.
All registered/interested parties get to FF any vehicle they are interested in.Walk around it,open the hood,open the doors,get under it,etc.
Have the seller of the vehicle standing right next to it to,to answer any pertinent questions if need be.
Then all interested parties write down the maximum amount they would pay for said vehicle,no more,no less,and personally hand it over to a panel of unbiased witnesses at a table,where they are recorded,all by a pre determined time.
They in turn announce the winning amount &amp; hand the title over to the highest offer,IF the reserve is met.
No shouting gavel master or his minions running around either..Nothing personal Amy.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a seller/consignor Mr70 suggestion is far the situation I'm hoping for. Mine goes like this.....at lease 2 but hopefully 3 adversarial bidders all with a "nookie" girl in each arm and a stiff drink in each hand. My car goes across the block around 7 pm and they've been boozing since lunch. Each one wants to show the others he has the biggest "johnson". I know its a recipe for disaster but its the same recipe as a windfall profit.

On a more serious note I would advise all consignors to negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Make all things negotiable not just the day and time across the block or the reserve. Strike all objectionable and one-sided language from the contract. It's written by them to protect them, it's your job to protect yourself. Make sure you strike the arbitration clause, the chance that you'll be the defendant in a suit is miniscule comparded to theirs. You want the opportunity to hit them where it hurts if need be. Negotiate the commisions, don't fall for "its standard and customary" crap. Ask for covered parking in the best tents, free drinks, dinner, hotels, airline flights, extra tickets, limo service, vip seating and private party tickets. All this is available to a select few and your not going to get it all but you might get something and you'll never know without negotiating. You will also have set the tone on how you expect to be treated. You want their respect not necessarily a friendship. If we all did this then they would have to change.


My rant has given rise to an idea for a business that I think might work...What we need is an "auction advocate", someone who can assist in consigning a car to auction. They would provide the following services:

1. Advise the best aution company for the particular car whether sportscar, muscle, postwar and the like

2. Help arrange transport the car to the auction.

3. Assist in setting the reserve and the write up that the auction house uses in their literature and while its on the block. Proper photo taking for submission

4. Preparation of auction literature and signage.

5. Arrange for detailing and preparation of the car for auction and while at auction

6. Video taping of the auction while your car goes through

7. Assist with negotiations with the auction house while your car is on the block such as the lowering of the reserve.

8. They could also help with shipping the car home if it didn't sell

9. Negotiate the terms on the consignment.

A single consignor with an average car is not going to get as favorable terms as a mutiple consignor or one with rare and desireable cars. But this "auction advocate" who may possibly control many cars may get much better terms. If he's able to get a single auction house to play ball then the others will be forced to follow suit.

[southernfriedcj]

[ QUOTE ]

My rant has given rise to an idea for a business that I think might work...What we need is an "auction advocate", someone who can assist in consigning a car to auction. They would provide the following services:

1. Advise the best aution company for the particular car whether sportscar, muscle, postwar and the like

2. Help arrange transport the car to the auction.

3. Assist in setting the reserve and the write up that the auction house uses in their literature and while its on the block. Proper photo taking for submission

4. Preparation of auction literature and signage.

5. Arrange for detailing and preparation of the car for auction and while at auction

6. Video taping of the auction while your car goes through

7. Assist with negotiations with the auction house while your car is on the block such as the lowering of the reserve.

8. They could also help with shipping the car home if it didn't sell

9. Negotiate the terms on the consignment.

A single consignor with an average car is not going to get as favorable terms as a mutiple consignor or one with rare and desireable cars. But this "auction advocate" who may possibly control many cars may get much better terms. If he's able to get a single auction house to play ball then the others will be forced to follow suit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great idea!

I am surprised auction houses don't have a "lower the reserve and/or commision" contract on the block ready to be signed for each car. The seller could review the contract before his car went up on the block so all he would need to do is sign the paper if an agreement to lower or drop the reserve was made.