1970 Chevelle buildsheet should be fraud!

**chads454Ls6** · #1 03-25-2007, 09:59 AM

In the april edition of Hemmings motor news on page 396,there is a guy that is advertising 1970 chevelle buildsheets to your specifications. This fellow is out of Rockledge Florida and his name is Jim Clemens. Does anyone know this guy? I wonder how many ls6 coupes and converts he has done that will be all over the place for sale. This is becoming very sad!

nuch_ss396 · #2 03-25-2007, 10:04 AM

Chad,

When there is so much money in the balance, many less than
worthy people rationalize making fake documentation and/or
transplanting VIN & trim tags. It's just money to them.

They're really no different than the guys selling swamp
land for developments, stock swindling, etc.. Maybe they
are the same guys, just a new swindle.

JoeG · #3 03-25-2007, 10:18 AM

It's about time they came out with these buildsheets--I've got a '70 buick that I was thinking of dropping a 454 in and just needed some docs to show it was a 1 off LS6/B.................

**Rainer** · #4 03-25-2007, 10:48 AM

I've said this in another post, but very soon we will see services being offered that will authenticate documents such as build sheets. Try as they may, the fakers just cannot duplicate the composition of paper and ink from 35-40 years ago and slip it by people who have expertise in examining documents. The stained, wrinkled, and "aged" sheets may fool us hobbyists and our untrained eyes, but I suspect today's papers and laser/inkjet inks will stick out like a sore thumb under close observation with the techniques the document examiners use.

All it takes is someone with good knowledge of buildsheet codes and content partnering with some of these professional document examiners, and you've got a worthwhile and profitable side-business. With the prices that today's musclecars are bringing, I'm guessing plenty of people would be willing to spend a couple hundred dollars or so for assurance that a buildsheet was the real deal. And I'm guessing most of the fakers would backpedal if they were told that a buyer wanted to make their deal contingent on professional examination of the buildsheet.

Any takers?

There are a few guys on this site that come to mind

DaJudge · #5 03-25-2007, 05:10 PM

The company I work for does historical document preservation. They use a marker that detects acid and ph levels in old documents. Every old document that is not preserved properly has acid in it. The point is that when I am looking at a vehicle's documentation I bring one of those markers. You put a small mark on a page or sheet if it turns yellow it has acid in it, if it turns purple it is acid free. The guys tell me that documents from the 90's forward are usually acid free. Just about everything pre 90's has some acidosis (spell check).

The marks disappear in about a half hour, this is a useful tool. If a buildsheet is pulled out of the car when new and inserted in an acid free protector then that would be the exception to the rule, but how often has that been done? I will get the name and company that makes these pens and post on Monday.

**chevelleheart** · #6 03-25-2007, 06:37 PM

MIke , That would be great. Chad there's also a guy om ebay advertising all the time called "69posi" or something like that and he advertises all the time. says there for "DISPLAY PURPOSES ONLY"........hey lets not kid ourselves.He advertises that he can age them for you, fool the experts etc etc for $1100 US.

**MosportGreen66** · #7 03-25-2007, 07:01 PM

Jim Clemens the Corvette guy? He is an ebay hawk for original P-o-P booklets, owner's manuals, dealer manuals, etc. An NCRS name for sure. What goes around comes around....

3macs1 · #8 03-25-2007, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MIke , That would be great. Chad there's also a guy om ebay advertising all the time called "69posi" or something like that and he advertises all the time. says there for "DISPLAY PURPOSES ONLY"........hey lets not kid ourselves.He advertises that he can age them for you, fool the experts etc etc for $1100 US.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to say it but this guy is from canada and has been doing it for many many years.He makes others look like they were done by Boy Scouts.Unfortunately I have seen a some of his work and it is getting better and better.

Word is he is actually being coached by a expert who is also a site visitor but I should not say that since I really don't know just something I have heard. What I do know is someone has been helping him over the past two years especially on the chevelle ones.
I honestly don't think any more other than checking the aged paper would anyone be able to tell some from actual. One of the newest features I have heard about is his modification of a original which would even throw the aging of the paper out the window.When you check his feedback it is scary to see how many of these packages he sells.
We also have the cowl/vin tag expert up here that has been killing the vet guys for years.

Now his stuff I am not sure who would be able to tell it from original.He has to run out of Gm blanks sometime I would think.
If it is fraud why do so many know of these guys and nothing is being done.This goes back many many years.I have nevr purchased anything off either of them but know those who have and have been contacted quite a few times since I joined this site looking for their info of which I didnot provide. The trim tag guy is also on e-bay but very very rarely.

**chads454Ls6** · #9 03-25-2007, 07:39 PM

It would be great if one of those markers were made for buildsheets that they use on paper money. Sounds kind of dumb right now,but if you could buy one for 10 bucks and when you look at a car you could use it and it told you one way or another if the docs were fake or real,that would be great. I know that is a tall order as with paper money,it is detecting the ink that know one can get there hands on so it would be a lot harder to produce such a marker for buildsheets that were made with regular ink,but somehow test the paper as that has to be one of the harder things to fake.

ohhawk · #10 03-25-2007, 08:07 PM

Maybe the gentleman who has come on this board at times representing the law firm below might offer his thoughts on how they approach this in the case of fake buildsheets. Is it up to the seller in a case like this to be able to prove fraudulent action or does your law firm have sources to aid?

http://www.dcdlaw.net/carfraud.htm

I would have some concern sending a buildsheet in the mail to someone to verify if it were mine being sent. Who's responsible if it is lost or damaged?

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