Selling Trim Tags ?????

[jfkheat]

Just for the record, I need to get your opinion on selling trim tags. I am having a discussion on Chevy Talk with a guy that was complaining because Ebay ended a couple of his auctions where he was selling trim tags. I posted my opinion about selling trim tags and he says he doesn't see where it is any different than selling any other used part. Here is a link to the discussion.
James

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...ID=#Post1354819

[SamLBInj]

I like how he says you can put it on your old race car if the original one fell off

[djunod]

There are ethics and there are "ethics".

1) Is it ethical to call a car an original COPO, when some/all the drivetrain and panels have been replaced, with numbers matching and/or NOS parts?

2) Is it ethical to even call it a COPO, when all that is COPO is the magic VIN or a piece of paper?

Replace COPO, with Yenko, Motion, Z-28, RS, SS, LS6, etc. and ask the same 2 questions.

The line seems to be indistinct for most people, it appears that a lot of people want to set it at the number matching replaced Trim Tag.

A few years ago when I was looking for a 427 for my Maco, I was talking on the phone with a potential supplier of that engine. When he asked me what date code I needed, the light bulb went on in my head... I finally realized that most of this "original", "number matching", "documented" stuff is just a bunch of hooha, based on what will bring in the most money.

Most everybody with a high dollar car knows this and is playing it like a game. Does Jay Leno do this with his car collection? It doesn't appear that way to me, to me it looks like he goes for eclectic & unique cars, for the cars themselves. He's obviously doing it for the cars, and not for the money.

Personally, I am in it for the cars themselves, the ones that appeal to me. Sometimes I do wish that I was willing to play that numbers game though... when I see how much money people make from it... but then I get back down to who I am, and that just isn't me.

These are my opinions, and have been mine for a while now.

[hep1966]

[ QUOTE ]
I like how he says you can put it on your old race car if the original one fell off

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that was really funny. Maybe it was supposed to be an example rather than be taken literally. Besides, things never fall off, break off, or get taken off racecars. We all know that every COPO Camaro and Chevelle still has the original drivetrain and body panels. There is no market for replacement parts for these cars.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
There are ethics and there are "ethics".

1) Is it ethical to call a car an original COPO, when some/all the drivetrain and panels have been replaced, with numbers matching and/or NOS parts?

2) Is it ethical to even call it a COPO, when all that is COPO is the magic VIN or a piece of paper?

Replace COPO, with Yenko, Motion, Z-28, RS, SS, LS6, etc. and ask the same 2 questions.

The line seems to be indistinct for most people, it appears that a lot of people want to set it at the number matching replaced Trim Tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Federal Law, it is the VIN that makes the car what it is. So, therefore the VIN and the body it was ORIGINALLY attached to, are what makes a COPO a COPO.

Engine, tranmissions, rears, etc., can be replaced and the car is still a COPO. But if you remove that VIN tag and put it on another body, the result is that you no longer have that orginal car (and you've committed a Federal felony as an added bonus...And no they don't care that you pulled it off of a rusted-beyond-repair car to salvage a historical automobile by placing it on a rust free body)

As for firewall data tags, you can do whatever you feel with one. *But if you attach it to another car in order to match how you've built that car and then represent it as that new car, you are committing fraud. And even if you tell the guy you sell the car to, that the tag was placed on there and it's not from that car originally you may still get sued, when your buyer then sells the car to someone else and lies about it...You will be part of the civil lawsuit when buyer #3 looks for deep pockets, because it was foreseeable that seller #2 would represent the car as real. You may even win your part of the lawsuit but you will be out a ton of $$$ for legal fees.

[WILMASBOYL78]

I have a trim tag from a 72 AMC Matador 4 door..first $5.00 takes it!

wilma

[Verne_Frantz]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and it's in print in a few books). The cowl tag is NOT the last "restoration" item for a car, made to match the way the car was restored - it is the birth certificate of the car, and the car should be restored to match it, not vice-versa.

Verne

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and it's in print in a few books). The cowl tag is NOT the last "restoration" item for a car, made to match the way the car was restored - it is the birth certificate of the car, and the car should be restored to match it, not vice-versa.

Verne

[/ QUOTE ]
You are right Verne, its the blueprint for the car.

[RichSchmidt]

Forst off,there are companies out there that have brand new blank trim tags and even protectoplates and the corect equipment to stamp them to say whatever you want them tosay.Why get tangled up in a build date/VIN sequence mismatch when you can nail al the numbers dead on?It is just one more reason why the value we place on our cars is really open to interpitation.

Right now we are facing the issue of repop bodies.It doesnt seem like an issue,but what is the difference between repoping entire bodies and hangining you vin tag onto it or just hangining every repop part on your existing VIN tag?

LEts say you see a combine mowing down a feild out in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden the combine stops because something is stuck in it's blades?You get out to see what heppened,and it turns out that the combine driver just ran over a genuine RS/SS ZL1 Baldwin Motion Camaro.It is the only one ever build and from the alumimnum shards under the wheels of the combine you can see that the ZL1 mill is under the hood.You pick the car up and pencil trace the VIN,and apply for a title.Then you call up a few parts houses and order a new roofskin,full floorpans,a cowl panel and firewall sections,all the exterior panels,The trunk floor panels and all the rest of the stuff to restore the car.You then go on Ebay and buy a donor car for the subframe.The next thing you know,your camaro is reborn.This is about how far gone at least a 1/3 of all the remaining undiscovered supercars really are.So I guess it is all relitive.

[SamLBInj]

Ok I get it, Find an old small block 67 SS camaro convertible, plop in a brand new 396/375 hp big block freshly restamped motor(Hey, why not, the tag is fake anyway), rivet on the new tag and, Whala ,instant L78..cool, you can also sell it for about 50 grand more than what it was originally worth..what a great concept...by the way, this is already going on and the people doing it should be locked up...A cars cowl tag is the means of showing how it was ordered and built.