[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Some random thoughts.....
I just hope this law doesn't impact innocent people negatively. Sure its a great tool in the fight against fraud, but it won't stop the problem, and isn't the total answer.
For one thing,I think that more pressure needs to be put on the manufacturers to come up with and maintain the records on the vehicle data related to the vin.
There should be hell to pay for GM simply saying "we don't have those documents". Once again the onus falls to the little guy and the big corporations are off scott free.
Imagine if you will, that GM was forced to dig up the documents that they have. There would be no question as to the authenticity of a vehicle.


[/ QUOTE ]

All of us would love nothing more than for GM to cough up those docs. Having said that, it will do nothing for fraudsters who take VIN numbers known from GM docs and turn them into cars by buying fake VIN and trim tags and slapping them on a clean body.

[ QUOTE ]

In Canada we are spoiled, because any Canadian sold GM vehicle has micro fiche stored vin based corporate documentation available to anyone with a vin,not just the vehicle owner, so there is no possibility of "faking" a tag to read what you want it to read.


[/ QUOTE ]

True but docs are not the be all and end all with respect to eliminating fraud in the hobby. As stated before, you can still make a car from nothing more than a GM of Canada doc.

[ QUOTE ]

Another thing is, I know of more than a few people who during a resto, remove the plates from the car to either dip or blast the body, and prevent damage to the plates. Having done that makes them a criminal? I don't feel that is right. A proper and complete concours resto on a rusty shell cannot occur without introducing potentially hazardous materials and processes to the tags, which are really quite fragile. I realize there is provision for this in the law, but what is to stop a person from causing trouble for someone else who has done this for legitimate reason? who is to say if it was a legitimate reason or not? It is now at his cost and expense to prove otherwise that he did not have criminal intention. Even if he is innocent its gonna cost him some money to prove his innocence.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are provisions for people who are repairing or restoring a car. It is not illegal for someone to remove the trim tag for restoration purposes.

[ QUOTE ]

Lastly keep in mind, that in the eighties and early nineties before there was so much aftermarket sheetmetal available, a common and generally accepted way of fixing a really rusty rare car was to re-body it fully or partially.
I really thought nothing of people who were replacing rusty muscle car bodies with six cylinder grandma car rust free bodies, it all seemed fine and good, and actually a lot of people preferred this method as it retained the factory assembly techniques and engineering, which was better than hammered up patch panels ,bondo and chicken wire.
Are the people who currently buy and sell these cars from early restorations headed for the slammer too?.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just remove the fake tag.

[ QUOTE ]

Another casualty will be people who have been unknowingly ripped off and (also unknowingly) own a fake tagged car. They will potentially be criminals when they do not deserve to be.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well if they are attempting to "pass the buck" then yes, they should be. If someone found out they were screwed and then turned around and tried to sell the car as is to someone else, then they are guilty of fraud. Remember the law uses the word "knowingly" so if someone truly believes that they are selling a legitimate car even though they are not, then the law would not apply to them but rather look at who he bought the car from and so-on. Whoever placed the trim tag on the car is the one who ultimately guilty. If someone finds out he bought a dud and then wants to sell it, I suggest removing the trim tag and leaving the car without one or buy a fake trim tag with the word "replacement" on it.