Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

I have a stock '70 big block Chevelle with a solid cam. I've been pointed by reliable sources to several on-line references/forums that describe the valve lash adjustment procedure. While varying slightly, all agree that it is best to do hot, once the engine is warmed-up. All also said or implied it is done with the engine <span style="text-decoration: underline">not running</span>.

The couple 70's era repair/tune-up manuals I have both say the final adjustment should be done with the engine <span style="text-decoration: underline">running</span>.

Anyone know if the accuracy between running and not running is that significant?

Thanks,
Dennis

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

I personally advise using the &quot;EOIC&quot; method, i.e. &quot;exhaust opening intake closing&quot; method.

With the engine at operating temp (and turned off), adjust one cylinder at a time on each bank. Carefully bump the engine over just until the exhaust rocker starts to open the valve. Stop, and adjust the intake valve on that cylinder. Then bump the engine over again just until the intake rocker has started to close. Stop, then adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder. This method ensures that the lifter is down on the heel of the lobe.

Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally advise using the &quot;EOIC&quot; method, i.e. &quot;exhaust opening intake closing&quot; method.

With the engine at operating temp (and turned off), adjust one cylinder at a time on each bank. Carefully bump the engine over just until the exhaust rocker starts to open the valve. Stop, and adjust the intake valve on that cylinder. Then bump the engine over again just until the intake rocker has started to close. Stop, then adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder. This method ensures that the lifter is down on the heel of the lobe.

Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary. </div></div>


x 10

Ken

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

Thanks for the response.

Sounds like the by far most important point is making sure the lifter is on the heel of the cam. I can see having the engine running would do this, but make the actual adjustment a bit more tricky.

The manuals (and some other soruces) describe doing multiple values at given crank position, but this sounds like the crank position will be very critical (i.e. being slightly off might result in having one of those valves not fully on the heel).

Your procedure guarantees the target valve is on the heel. Thanks for info. I picked up an underhood bump switch yesterday, so I think I'm good to go.

Thanks,
Dennis

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally advise using the &quot;EOIC&quot; method, i.e. &quot;exhaust opening intake closing&quot; method.

With the engine at operating temp (and turned off), adjust one cylinder at a time on each bank. Carefully bump the engine over just until the exhaust rocker starts to open the valve. Stop, and adjust the intake valve on that cylinder. Then bump the engine over again just until the intake rocker has started to close. Stop, then adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder. This method ensures that the lifter is down on the heel of the lobe.

Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary. </div></div>


x 10

Ken </div></div>

I thought it would be x 8 (or 7). What are you doing Ken, you have a Viper that we don't know about? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img]

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

Here is a document thay applies to small block in particular but a person can take some of the information and apply it to others. I udes this procedure first on my F.I. car and what a difference! Recently, I adjusted my LT-1 and it hit the nail on the head again. This document came from a couple of fellows on the NCRS website that worked with GM back in the day. Hope this can help someone.





&quot;30-30&quot; AND OTHER OEM SB SOLID LIFTER CAM VALVE ADJUSTMENT
(Revised 09-23-2008)
By John Hinckley and Duke Williams
The traditional method of adjusting valves one or more cylinders at a time with each cylinder
at TDC is fine for hydraulics and for most solid-lifter cams, but NOT for the factory &quot;30-30&quot; solidlifter
cam used in '64-'65 L-76 365 HP and L-84 375 HP (FI) Corvette engines (and in '67-'69
Camaro 302/290 Z/28 engines); this cam has VERY long clearance ramps that are .017&quot; high,
and at TDC for any cylinder, both the intake and exhaust valve for that cylinder are still on their
ramps, NOT on the cam's base circle, which is why the Service Manual for all cars so equipped
says specifically to set them &quot;hot and running&quot;.
There is, however, a better way to adjust the valves with a &quot;30-30&quot; - you can set them &quot;cold
and not running&quot; by setting the intakes at 90 degrees ATDC and the exhausts at 90 degrees
BTDC - so the lifters are on the base circle, not on the clearance ramps. This has been confirmed
with cam lift/crank-angle diagrams and analysis of the GM drawing lobe data, and I've done mine
this way - results in a nice mechanical &quot;singing&quot; sound, no &quot;clacking&quot;, it runs better, sounds
better, idle is more stable, and throttle response is improved. Several other Z/28 owners have
followed this procedure as well since we developed it, and all of them have seen the same
positive results.
Set them cold at .023&quot;/.023&quot;. The actual measured (stamped rocker arm) ratio at the lash
points is actually about 1.37:1 (not the design 1.5:1, which is a “theoretical” number), so the
clearance ramp, which is exactly .017&quot; high on the lobe, is all taken up at .02329&quot; clearance;
.030&quot; clearance with the valve closed is too loose - the ramp ends/begins before the
.030&quot;clearance is taken up, resulting in the valve being lifted off and returned to the seat at
greater than ramp velocity. This will contribute to valve seat recession, and can cause valve
bounce at the seats at high revs - it will also be noisy.
You can adjust two valves at each 90-degree rotation point, starting at #1 TDC, turning the
crank 90 degrees at a time seven times (measure and mark your balancer first at 90-degree
intervals from TDC). Removing the plugs simplifies rotating the crank, but you were going to
change them anyway, right? Proceed as follows:
TDC #1 - 8E, 2I
90 deg. - 4E, 1I
180 deg. - 3E, 8I
270 deg. - 6E, 4I
0 - 5E, 3I
90 deg. - 7E, 6I
180 deg. - 2E, 5I
270 deg. - 1E, 7I
Start at TDC #1, then rotate 90 degrees at a time, setting at .023&quot; cold. If you like, you can
then go back after you're done to each cylinder's TDC position and check clearance on that
cylinder's two valves, and you'll find that they've closed up to approximately.021&quot;, indicating that
both valves are still on the ramps at TDC, as I pointed out in the beginning.
Trivia - the point of max inlet lift on the &quot;30-30&quot; cam is at 110 degrees ATDC and 118 degrees
BTDC on the exhaust side, so the lobe separation angle is 114 degrees (angle between points of
max lift, not the geometric center of the lobe - the lobes on the &quot;30-30&quot; cam are asymmetrical).
Addendum (May 19, 2003)
Lash settings revised 12-14-2005
Optional indexing for Duntov cam revised 09-23-08 (#1, #6 TDC positions will not work for Duntov cam)
This procedure should also be used for the LT-1 cam. The exhaust is “on the ramp” at TDC. The inlet is
not, but just barely. With the Duntov cam this indexing procedure may be used, or both valves may be set
with the cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke. Adjusting eight specified valves at the #1 and #6 TDC
positions as discussed in the 1963 Corvette Shop manual is only valid for hydraulic lifter cams. It will not
yield accurate settings with any mechanical lifter cam because not all the specified valve’s lobes at these
two positions are on the base circle due to mechanical lifter cams’ long constant velocity clearance ramps.
This indexing procedure on page 1 may be used with ANY cam to assure that the lobe is on the base circle,
and MUST be used for cams with very long clearance ramps.
The following inlet/exhaust valve clearances are recommended with the engine cold and not running. The
difference between “hot” (engine idle speed) and cold clearance on a cast iron pushrod engine is negligible,
so clearances can be set cold, which is more convenient. These clearances are computed by multiplying
the height of the clearance ramp (which was determined from analysis of the GM drawings that list lobe data
to five decimal places every cam degree) by the 1.37:1 measured lash point rocker ratio. The computed
number is then rounded down. The factory clearances are derived from multiplying the maximum height of
the ramp above the base circle by 1.5, except the 30-30 cam. The clearances of .025&quot;/.025&quot; listed on the
drawing were derived from this formula, but the rationale of the published .030&quot;/.030&quot; is unknown. It is
speculated that the higher clearance was specified to solve idle stability problems on FI engines as the
larger clearance decreases effective duration slightly, but is definitely tougher on the valvetrain. Idle speed
on 30-30 cam FI engines should be set at whatever RPM is required to achieve stability, and this will
probably be in the range of 1000-1200
When running hard, such as sustained WOT, the exhaust valve head will heat up considerably. About 80
percent of exhaust valve cooling is through the seat, but the stem temperature will also increase, which will
cause the stem to grow and decrease running clearance. This is why exhaust clearance ramps are typically
higher than inlet ramps – to allow for more stem growth and maintain acceptable running clearance to
ensure the valves fully seat. Since the inlet valve is cooled with every fresh intake charge, its temperature
and clearance will remain more consistent over the entire engine operating spectrum.
The rocker arm nut should be tightened until a light drag is felt on the feeler of the same thickness as the
recommended clearance. Then the clearance may be verified by inserting a .001” larger gage, and if it does
not go the clearance is between the two gages, which is just right. Note that the inlet clearance specification
for the 1963 Corvette was tightened to .008” to give a bit more effective duration. This does not need to be
“factored” anymore. We recommend this tighter clearance for all 327s, and it is optional for 283s for a little
more top end power though the effect may not be noticeable. Normal engine service will usually result in
slight loosening of the clearance, and Chevrolet service recommendations from the sixties call out a lash
check every 12,000 miles as part of a normal tuneup.
Duntov cam (283) .010”/.016” (lobe clearance ramp heights: .008&quot;/.012&quot;)
Duntov cam (327) .008”/.016” (lobe clearance ramp heights: .008&quot;/.012&quot;)
30-30 cam .023”/.023” (lobe clearance ramp heights: .017&quot;/.017&quot;)
LT-1 cam .016”/.023” (lobe clearance ramp heights: .012&quot;/.017&quot;)
Note: Clearances/clearance ramp heights are listed inlet/exhaust.
Interesting facts: The LT-1 cam exhaust lobe is the same as the 30-30 cam lobe (both sides identical), but
the point of maximum lift is indexed four degrees earlier at 122 deg. BTDC. The LT-1 inlet lobe is the same
at the L-72 cam lobe (both sides identical), but the point of maximum lift is indexed two degrees later at 110
deg. ATDC versus 108 deg. ATDC for the L-72. The LT-1 inlet/L-72 lobe also has greater asymmetry than
the 30-30 lobe. The LT-1 cam was, therefore, not &quot;all new&quot;, but incorporated two proven lobe designs with
indexing refinement to broaden torque bandwidth, and the early phased exhaust event compensates for the
small blocks' relatively restrictive exhaust port. The Duntov lobes are symmetrical and identical other than
the exhaust lobe having .004&quot; greater clearance ramp height. At any point on the opening and closing flanks
(the portion of the lobe above the top of the clearance ramp), as measured from the point of maximum lift,
the design exhaust lobe dimension is exactly .00400&quot; greater than the inlet lobe.

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

Great Info...................

Ken

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally advise using the &quot;EOIC&quot; method, i.e. &quot;exhaust opening intake closing&quot; method.

With the engine at operating temp (and turned off), adjust one cylinder at a time on each bank. Carefully bump the engine over just until the exhaust rocker starts to open the valve. Stop, and adjust the intake valve on that cylinder. Then bump the engine over again just until the intake rocker has started to close. Stop, then adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder. This method ensures that the lifter is down on the heel of the lobe.

Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary. </div></div>
Ditto this on the bbc...I've done it via the crank index on our bbc stuff, and it's a pain, and not any better than the EO/IC method. Something to think about for those that set them off of the crank angle(s), is you need to first verify TDC, as balancers have been known to move...!

Good info on the 30-30 cam...

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

This method has worked very well for me.

Re: Valve Lash Adjustment: running or not?
 

In addition to this thread, I have a question: on an engine that is driven regularly, getting normal street useage, how often should one adjust one's valve lash? Or is there no way to really say?

Just trying to get an idea how often I'll be wrenching on my L72
It's not that I have any problem with doing so--just want to get an idea as to what to expect.