New Hemmings Cover
 

Congrats to Wagonman, John Scholz, for makinging the cover this month, winning the Goodguys event in Pleasanton, CA and a shot at the Hemmings Muscle Car of the Year award.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...scan0001-1.jpg


You can change your profile now to include your last name, John. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
BTW, his car is also in the 2009 Camaro calender.
8 pages in Hemmings even beats njsteve's hemi cover story. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

congrats on a killer car!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Congrats John... you showing up for Car Crazy again this year or are you gonna start big timing all us little guys? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

John: Great job on the Best of 1968 302 JL8 Camaro Converitible Muscle Car of the year award. Huffy Rail Rider
.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Pardon me while I play devil's advocate here...

While I am truly impressed with the beauty and level of detail on John's car (or at least as much as can be gleaned from pictures in a magazine), what statement is made by having this car in the running for Hemmings 'Muscle Car of the Year' award https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I certainly hope someone is cooking up that Z16 vert to compete. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Very nice car, and congrats on the accolades.......but how can a car that was never made be in the running for muscle car of the year? Not hating the car at all, just questioning Hemmings.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very nice car, and congrats on the accolades.......but how can a car that was never made be in the running for muscle car of the year? Not hating the car at all, just questioning Hemmings.

[/ QUOTE ]

He proved it was "real" with his documentation.So now it's Muscle Car of The Year!

Barrett Jackson here we come! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Does it have to be a "real"car to be considered Muscle Car of The Year?

I saw it in the 2009 Camaro Calendar!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Here is that picture.

http://www.calendars.com/xq/asp/MGID...duct_views.htm

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

no big deal how many calendars, books, shirts over the years have we seen that have cars in/on them so far off from correct it hurts to look at them.....no different today.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

----That Thunderbolt wasnt all bad either!!!!!!........Bill S

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

i would like to thank all you guys for your positive comments...

yes the car is up for muscle car of the Year!!!

Hemmings absolutley loved the car!

and yes,it is featured on the 2009 camaro calendar.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
I certainly hope someone is cooking up that Z16 vert to compete. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bring It On!!!!!!!LOL that would make a nice display together.....

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pardon me while I play devil's advocate here...

While I am truly impressed with the beauty and level of detail on John's car (or at least as much as can be gleaned from pictures in a magazine), what statement is made by having this car in the running for Hemmings 'Muscle Car of the Year' award https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

the statement made is perhaps The Goodguys loved the car....

It was a unanimous decision on the judges at Pleasanton.

but thank you anyway.....

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I didnt have to prove the cars authenticity to be picked for Muscle Car of The Year at the Goodguys...

It's a musclecar regardless....

No BJ either......but i have had some incredible offers...

thank you......

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Congrats on the cover! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I just aquired the Aug issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines with wagonman's 1968 Z/28 convertible on the cover.I had to ask the clerk to pull it out of the back.She said it will not be on the shelf until next week.

Although i'm not to keen on the fake documentation,the car and article are very entertaining.It is a very nice 8 page spread that seems very complimenting.I was hoping to be able to read the text on the doc's in the magazines print but the picture is to small.

Being in Hemmings Muscle Machines Magazine and receiving such national recognition must increase a cars stature.

But in this case i think it would be a good idea to have a copy of the magazine around to prove it's fake heritage and lower it's possible value at any auction.

This is only my opinion.I love the car.It is probably my favorite first generation camaro excluding all the controversy it may bring.

Nice Job indeed.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Californians have all the cars!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Job Well Done. John you deserve to be recogize. Some don't people don't think poor people like camaro toys to. Frank261 Huffy Rail Rider!!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Nice Job John> Some people can't stand it when people have nice camaros Frank261 Huffy Rail Rider

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Wagonman: Muscle Machine magazine has hit the stands Frank261

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

So now, the next Musclecar craze has been started!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Cars can last forever; people can't. I wonder what will be said about that car in 100 years?

My opinion of that magazine has just been lowered. Although that article could prove to be quite an important artifact in 100 years...

Verne https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]


My opinion of that magazine has just been lowered.

Verne https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


My opinion of that magazine has just been lowered.

Verne https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Double Ditto!!!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif
~ Pete

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

In my opinion of tht magazine it has been just raise. Look at this reference this subject New Hemming Cover There will be more

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Hemmings Muscle machines has a feedback forum you can write in and voice your opinion.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Don't shoot the messenger!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Hello,

and thanks for the kind words and not so kind words.

I would like to simply voice my opinion and reply to some of yours.

"Dont shoot the messenger!!!" very well put.HMM didnt build the car,i did.
In the beggining,i started out building a car that i always
wanted.Simple enough right? I love convertibles.I have always collected and restored them.I also wanted a dual carb car.So this camaro came along.Recently i found that chevy had a crossram intake.I must have lived under a rock.

Anyway,i started to build a convertible with a crossram and
learned that chevy actually made one!A million dollar plus
car in todays market.A car I shall never afford in this lifetime.

So i made my own!!! I wanted to make it as close to perfect as possible.Numbers date coded parts etc...you know the drill.I found that i can take it a step further......paperwork,pop etc....Since i would never own the original why not?

Then i found out why,after i displayed my cars doc's for the first time i got an "ear full" But what's done is done.I went to a few shows w/o displaying the paperwork.I learned how it is "tabo"to engage in such practice.Which i completely agree.Then i decided to display my Z/28 Convertible with all it's glory.With all doc's once again.But this time,openly and honestly admitting its fake.Not that i was going to try to pass it off as real before.And to let all to know this can be done.

You see,the thing is i'm the messenger.If it was me,my car,or the article that informed you of this practice then i'll consider myself successful.We now know that fake doc's,protect-o-plates etc.can and are being made...
IS IT A SURPRIZE TO YOU? surely not.

You guys are the experts right? But should this knowledge only be spread among yourselves? I dont think so.Do any of you guys have fake cars that you need to disclose? Have any of you purchased any of these fake docs your self? HMMM.....Now i can understand why you may be upset.

If anything i'm the only one to come forward with this
pratice."HEY GUESS WHAT,THIS CAR ISNT REAL!"
You should praise me.Unfortuanately some may see this and
decide to do it themselves.Ok i understand there point.But they can learn this anywhere from books or internet.Not from just my car.

Ultimately if everybody knows,such as buyers,sellers,dealers and builders,then the effectiveness of fake doc's will diminish.Making your guys happier,right?

Now,as far as Muscle car of The Year award.come on guys! where does it say it has to be a REAl car? who dug that one up? It simply has to fall within their criteria.

Also why cant this car be on the cover of Hemmings Muscle Machines? because it'fake? Have all the cover cars been real? Has every car in HMM been completely numbers matching totally original?HMM totally proves the fact that it's a counterfeit convertible....


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http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...e/scan0006.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...e/scan0007.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...e/scan0008.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...e/scan0009.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...e/scan0010.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...azine/scan.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...05631_fc-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...05631_back.jpg

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

My 3¢
I think you did a very nice job on a very well thought out car that you always wanted to own and enjoy.I would love to put that top down & drive that to any local Illinois cruise on any summer evening and enjoy it for what it is,not for what it's trying to be.
I could see how it's disappointing to some as it appears you've taken it a step further beyond the daily enjoyment line and now entered a misleading mentality.Unfortunately when you show honest people what was done,you're also teaching dishonest people what can be done,intended or not.
The muratic acid/saline solution process & Flint block syntax,along with the doctored paperwork seem to be the most talked about,up till midnight,head scratching,red flag of your entire ensemble that I see as taking the spotlight away from what the vehicle actually is and was built for.
The part where you state you won't disclose who made the documents,sounds like you might have known this was coming as well.
You say you wanted to show what could be done,and you have with great detail but personally I would stamp FAKE over the Flint pad syntax,destroy all the homemade paperwork,photograph their charred remains and display only the original unaltered few remaining documents that came with the RS convertible originally.
That would probably garnish more respect and say the same thing more subtly then the phoney docs ever did when displayed next to the vehicle.
That's a beautiful homemade car you've created..enjoy it!

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I believe the issue people have is that you created counterfeit documents. That is the problem. Yes, there are cars with counterfeit docs, and VIN swaps, and all sorts of shady baggage out there. But when you proudly display the fact that you have had these docs created for your car, that raises the hackles on a large percentage of people out there who place a high value on authenticity. It tarnishes an otherwise masterful piece of automotive artwork.

This reminds me of the defense that real counterfeiters try to use (unsuccessfully, I might add): "I'm just making a copy of a Van Gogh, or a $100 bill, or..."

If you put the original artist's name on the bottom, i.e., Van Gogh, then it makes it a criminal act.

If you used your own name, that's a little different. For example, if your name is Bob Smith and you put "Bob Smith" on the bottom of your "Van Gogh" then it is obvious to all, now and in the future, that it is not a counterfeit. In this case, you could have put your name as the selling dealer, salesman, buyer, etc, not actual persons and businesses, then it would be obvious to all, it was not counterfeit.

I am not saying that what you did is a crime (It applies only to specific items like currency or if you tried to pass it to a buyer representing it as real) but when you make up documents that have an original dealer instead of your own name, it turns into an avalanche down the slippery legal slope.

By the way, cudos on not changing the VIN tag. If you had, and then had your unnamed associate make up "new old paperwork" to match it, you both would have graduated into committing several federal felonies including Conspiracy, altering/removing/defacing a VIN number, mail fraud and wire fraud.

It's a beautiful car, and you've done a great job building it, but if it were me, I'd get rid of those "documents" and enjoy the car for what it is: a car you built to satisfy your own personal wishes of having a 68 302 ragtop. You should have the right to enjoy it without the headaches and rumors associated with the NOP (new old paperwork).

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Some may also be wound up about the fake docs because some of the original docs to real car were stolen a few years back...and to my knowledge have not resurfaced?

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I have seen the car at a car show with all it's paperwork. You may tell a few people that come up and ask about it that it is a fake but 99% of the people walk by see the paperwork and assume it is real. On two different threads I think I suggested that you also put a sign up stating the paperwork is fake. I think my suggestion was ignored both times. That leads me to believe your motives are other than educating the public as you would like us to believe.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe the issue people have is that you created counterfeit documents. That is the problem. Yes, there are cars with counterfeit docs, and VIN swaps, and all sorts of shady baggage out there. But when you proudly display the fact that you have had these docs created for your car, that raises the hackles on a large percentage of people out there who place a high value on authenticity. It tarnishes an otherwise masterful piece of automotive artwork.

This reminds me of the defense that real counterfeiters try to use (unsuccessfully, I might add): "I'm just making a copy of a Van Gogh, or a $100 bill, or..."

If you put the original artist's name on the bottom, i.e., Van Gogh, then it makes it a criminal act.

If you used your own name, that's a little different. For example, if your name is Bob Smith and you put "Bob Smith" on the bottom of your "Van Gogh" then it is obvious to all, now and in the future, that it is not a counterfeit. In this case, you could have put your name as the selling dealer, salesman, buyer, etc, not actual persons and businesses, then it would be obvious to all, it was not counterfeit.

I am not saying that what you did is a crime (It applies only to specific items like currency or if you tried to pass it to a buyer representing it as real) but when you make up documents that have an original dealer instead of your own name, it turns into an avalanche down the slippery legal slope.

By the way, cudos on not changing the VIN tag. If you had, and then had your unnamed associate make up "new old paperwork" to match it, you both would have graduated into committing several federal felonies including Conspiracy, altering/removing/defacing a VIN number, mail fraud and wire fraud.

It's a beautiful car, and you've done a great job building it, but if it were me, I'd get rid of those "documents" and enjoy the car for what it is: a car you built to satisfy your own personal wishes of having a 68 302 ragtop. You should have the right to enjoy it without the headaches and rumors associated with the NOP (new old paperwork).

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

What great comments...I especially like the burn the documents idea!!!

As I stated in a previous post, I have trouble understanding how if the Wagonmeister has true concerns for those who may get shaken on cars w/ similar 'pedigrees', why be so clandestine about where the fictional POP's etc were obtained?.

Yes everyone's free to do as they choose w/ their own cars but personally I can't help but wonder why any car w/ restamps and fake documents (admitted or not) keeps appearing on this of all sites?.
Also why when this car makes appearances here is anyone surprised some are opposed to it?.

Seriously, athough there's some here who are Ok w/ BS documents, tags and restamps, one of the main reasons I enjoy it here is I know of no other site where like-minded knowledgable enthusiasts have always been against the very thing threads like this seem to be condoning?.

No argument the car itself is cool and the Wagoneer may even be the greatest guy, but if in any way we're starting to accept and praise BS documents, tags and restamped cars here, that's a very slippery slope and concerning for what I understood this site has always solidly represented and stood for more than any other?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Jim Mattison, WE NEED THOSE CHEVROLET RECORDS,NOW!!!!
By the way, not to hijack this thread but any news on this?

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen the car at a car show with all it's paperwork. You may tell a few people that come up and ask about it that it is a fake but 99% of the people walk by see the paperwork and assume it is real. On two different threads I think I suggested that you also put a sign up stating the paperwork is fake. I think my suggestion was ignored both times. That leads me to believe your motives are other than educating the public as you would like us to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Charley Lillard,

I'm sorry if you thought i ignored your previous post.That was not the case.I simply chose not to reply to them in an open public forum.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.........

Thank you........

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I think the Hemmings Muscle Machines cover will explain it all....

ONE OF NONE....

I will display this at any future car shows.

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

Thank you all for your compliments,emails and pm,s.

I have received plenty of emails and pm,s re:my documention.I was asked to have it and even the car itself destoyed!

I totally agree with your concern.Everybody should realize that i'm one of "you" and not "them".I am on your side when it comes to fake doc's, POP's etc...I would like to take this time and reassure you that the docs will be destroyed if and when the car leaves my possesion.I originally did it for pure novelty.To make myself a real looking car with totally pure innocence.Then i displayed the docs on team camaro with pride.OMG! did i get a bunch of PM's Emails...etc....I had no idea.....I then sat on it for a while.Just thinking about what i should do.Then i wanted the people that arent so "in the know" to know that this practice is going on for monetary reasons and not just for fun or novelty like my car.I would like everybody to watch out in thier purchase of a fully documented car...I had learned some very interesting points of view from people.It is truly amazing how some people think both intelligently and not so intelligently.But i have heard even more great opinions...

Ok,this is the part where i can simply lie to you and tell you that i will destroy all doc,s.But i'm not a liar.So i will once again reassure you that the docs will not leave my possesion with the car.I will set these docs aside and not display them anymore.These doc's POP etc..cost me thousands of dollars.So rather than simply destroy them,i will keep them aside.i will surely not destroy the car.

I will only dislay the car for what it is and not what it is pretented to be.Hemmings loved the car!
Now to further prove my honesty we all have Hemmings Muscle Machines which is a major publication proving the car's fake pedigree.That will be the only document that will go along with my car if/when i ever sell it.....

........John........

Re: New Hemmings Cover
 

I suppose I "just have to" add my 2 cents too, why not, eh?

I "know" John from Team Camaro, and I've met him and seen the car up close and personal at last years Car Crazy show in San Meteo.

The car is simply fabulous.

John is a great guy, and totally honest, if somewhat niave.

I'm uncomfortable with the paperwork too. I can certainly see the "potential" for a serious problem at some future date.

Regardless, Kudos on the musclecar of the year nomination, as well as the 8 pages and cover in Hemmings!