russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

i recently bought a 1969 silver copo 427 camaro @ russo and steele in fort lauderdale , i took it home a day or two later i got a phone call from a friend and he told me to check the car out real good because he heard or a rumor that the camaro was a re-body , i remove the cowl and found that the car was a re-body , i contacted russo and steele and they treated terrible .

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I hope your going to seek legal help and please explain your poll so I can place a vote.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

What exactly are we voting on?

Isn't this something that you should be pursuing outside of an internet board?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Did they refund your money ? What is the point of this poll ?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

No different than MANY of the B-J, R/S cars.........the car hobby community turns a cold shoulder or blind eye, UNTIL it happens to YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my 1st Amendment .02

Chuck Sharin
425-277-8833

not hiding my contact info behind the internet, this board or anything else.........

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

i placed a stop payment on the check, russo and steele auction wanted their money and they did not care about it.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

If it was disclosed as a rebody you may not have any legal recourse. If it wasn't, then R&S should contact the seller, have him take the car back & refund your money. Did you pay clone $$ or COPO $$ for it?
I wouldn't bash them on a public forum, just contact an attny if they don't do the right thing.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

the point of this is their is a 1969 canadian silver copo rs camaro that we all should know it is a re-bodied car and if you ever see it dont buy it as a true car.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Was it this one?

R&S Silver COPO
Consignment # 38-1087

1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO Coupe
SOLD: $ 118,250.00 - Florida 2008

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Im pretty sure if you read the auction contract weather its Russo Barrett Mecum or who ever, they dont inspect or verify any cars thats the buyers resposibility, unless of course they owned the car, then I think you have some kind of case..

Most contracts state you have to go after the owner of the car if a dispute has happened and that the cost is covered by you.

I feel for you and agee it is horrible that these cars show up at auctions and nothing is done about it but most cars are known and thats why they dont bring the dough.. ie Blue LS6 Convert, ZL1 camaros, etc.. Thats why I wont bid on a car thats selling cheap unless Ive done my homework.

Ive heard rumors about that car too and couldnt believe it last year when it did 10k more than my REAL COPO at Barrett.. As much as it SUCKS Id take what happened with a grain of salt and say lesson learned, sell the car for what it really is and write the rest off as a loss.. Legal fees will be way more than the price difference IMO unless you can go after everything including lawyer fee's.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Are the hidden vins (under heater box and wipers changed?) I remember one of the old owners being suspect of the car but didnt really know forsure..

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

wasn't this car owned for a while by corvette mike's out of so. cal?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Its had alot of owners over the past couple of years.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

i believe that besides the canadian doc's, it also has c c vin certification.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I don't think it's a buyers responsibility to find out whether a car is a fake. After all, whoever switched the tags committed a crime right?
Would they actually let you remove the cowl to check the vin before you bid? Don't think so https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif It's not the 1st time a car's been laundered thru an auction...buyer beware https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

What did the vin number read when you looked at the cowl?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I for one never take a description on what it says, I think a buyer has to take some responsibility, look at all the cars that are restamped and being sold as numbers cars (way to many to count) there are way to many crooks thats why the serious collector has to do homework on the cars hes interested and think twice if a deal seems to get to be true, or hire an expert.

Say for instance this COPO was restored 10 to 15 years ago when COPOS were bringing 35k to 50k, jump ahead 15 years and who takes it in the shorts?? I bet the original guy who did the car would take it back for 50k wheather or not he disclosed it was a re-body (and make money today again on it), Im sure the car has had many owners that didnt know the history and sold it not knowing.. so does it start with the current owner getting his money back and go on down the line from there until the builder ends up with the car? Just curious on everyones thoughts??

This car was sold on 07' at Barrett for 160k plus the juice so someone took a 50k loss already on it.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

The reason some cars go thru auction is if there is a problem, the auction house says they are only a venue which cars sell thru, and the seller claims that since the auction house sold the car, they are responsible. Therefore as a buyer you are normally out of luck unfortunately.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Why was it rebodied? Wreck? rust? Drag racer?
Was it burned in Reggies fire then rebodied?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

the vin # on the cowl has been cut out and replaced by the real copo vin # , but it is a terrible job and if you take a mirror and look under it you will see the welding all around the numbers ----- the worst part about it is the way russo and steele does bussiness , they wanted their money anyway and did not care, drew threating me by saying that he was going to call the cops and charge me with a stolen car,, maybe what i should has done was call the cops my self and they would have taken the car by (auto-theft police) and destroy it.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

------So,,,Other than a huge amount of aggravation at this point, what are you out??? You seem to have a pretty expensive car in your possesion that you havent paid for. You and Drew seem to be at an impasse at the moment, and you seemingly have the upper hand if you also have the title. No matter what Drew said to you (good or bad) you have the car and you have your money. Something needs to happen and if it were me I would keep an open mind to any offers from the other side. Maybe you had better think about informing your local authorities about the chances that someone from Arizona may be giving them a call and tell them why. Sometimes its better to be proactive. Good luck!!!.........Bill S

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

the camaro and title are back to the person that was selling it @ the auction, (my check) is not back to me. i did place a stop payment.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

[ QUOTE ]
As much as it SUCKS Id take what happened with a grain of salt and say lesson learned, sell the car for what it really is and write the rest off as a loss.. Legal fees will be way more than the price difference IMO unless you can go after everything including lawyer fee's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will someone please help me understand why this man has to take a loss on a car that an auction house mis-represented? In the ad, Russo & Steele does not have a disclaimer stating that this is how the car was represented to them and that a buyer should research the vehicle as to it's authenticity. Since I have never bought a vehicle at auction, I have no idea about auction contract(s). When do they make you sign a contract, before you bid or after the bidding ends?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

If someone stops payment on a check and doesnt return the merchandise they can be prosecuted for that . Im not sure where the person holding the car that he hasnt paid for has any negotiation power except to return the car . Sounds to me like that would mean the buyer doesnt want to return the car he just wants it cheaper, and that choice[to lower price] would be up to Russo Steele not the buyer....

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I DONT think he should have to take a loss but understanding how the law works and the prices of lawyers.. Its WAY to costly, you'd spend more with a lawyer than you would lose if you sold the car and took a loss (unless of course your a lawyer and can rep yourself). Sure its not right but thats the way our messed up country works.

As for Russo they dont write the ads on the cars, thats the owners that do that and they sign a form stating that what they wrote is true and if there is a problem its worked out between the buyer and seller..like King said the auction is just a venue bringing buyers and sellers together.

and yes you sign a form after you win the bid, and you sign another contract before you get your bid number stating all the facts.

From what I gather real muscle is mad that he is still having to pay the commissions on the purchase which Im sure by contract he has to... Thats where customer satisfaction comes into play I for one would want to make my customer HAPPY but not all businesses think that way.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Well, if the car & title are back with the seller, what's the issue? Did you just want to tell us that R&S was still trying to strong-arm you to consumate the deal?
Time to move on https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

When a car is mis-represented at Barrett-Jackson, they let the buyer out of the deal and charge the seller both the buyer and seller comissions. Russo hopefully has something similar.

!
 

-----Well,,,Now the picture becomes clear. Not blaming you, but the facts about possesion, title etc. were not clear to me. Charlie (the voice of reason) has spoken and Drew apparently needs to (once again) do the right thing!!!!!!!!......Bill S

Re: !
 

Usually that is the case that the seller pays both commissions and I agree with that to a point.. but what if like in this case where the seller (assuming so at the price he paid last year) didnt know the car was re-bodied and bought thinking it was a legit car? The car was restored sometime ago and has changed hands 4 times that I know of in the past couple of years.. I think the auction companys need re-write there contracts to agree to let both sides out of the deal/commisions if it can be proven that the seller wasnt the one building a suspect car that can be proven a fraud.

Re: !
 

From Russo and Steel's point of view.... They sold what they thought was a COPO. The buyer writes a check for the car and leaves with the car. A couple days later the buyer calls and says it is a rebody. Russo has no car or way to verify what the buyer is saying and the buyer has stopped payment on the check. If I were the auction house I would want to keep all the money until the car was back to me and it's condition could be verified be a expert. You come here and bash Russo when in fact you took the car for several days and had stopped payment. I'm told they came and got the car still partially apart. For all they know you might just be some kind of nut. Your issue should be more with the seller that did not disclose the rebody to Russo.
What if I was a seller of a real car that was not rebodied and someone took it home and a couple days later cooked up a rebody story because he had buyers remorse ? Maybe just pop the cowl panel off and mess things up with a welder etc. There is no way for the auction houses to verify every car. It's the people that are bringing the cars that are the problem.

Re: !
 

Very well said..

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I am not sure why some of you are being so hard on the guy who started this thread? He has let us know that this car is clearly a re-body which is always nice information to make public as many times as possible so that the car is more widely known to be a re-body. If it's the one in the description the average buyer thinking it has Canadian paperwork and came from the RJ collection with CC paperwork might think he is safe to buy the car????

Not everyone goes to these auctions knowing many of the cars are re-bodied, that phantom bidders are the norm, that some of the largest muscle car dealers in the country routinely misrepresent their cars and that the auction house will not be sympathetic when you learn how muscle car world really works and you have been defrauded out of your money.

We need more of this information made available to more people in the faint hope that this hobby will someday clean itself up. Most of the people who post on this forum are veterans of the muscle car hobby and know it's corrupt from the top to the bottom and have learned to navigate through the sharks.

Unfortunately their are a lot of people with dreams of owning a real COPO Camaro or another muscle car of their dreams and have finally scraped up enough money to buy one and think the the auction or a well known dealer is a safe place to buy one and learn the hard way buying an authentic car is not as easy as they thought.

And lets be honest sometimes even the muscle car experts themselves get snookered such is the quality of the deceptions today. Sometimes even by guys you thought you could trust? Who among us who has been in the hobby for a long time hasn't been suckered at some point or another?

I say the value's of our muscle cars are directly related to the ability of people to buy with confidence at auctions and dealers. So whenever we can let others know of a problem we should encourage them??

Re: !
 

Maybe it would have been a good idea to ask some questions here before you went to the auction.

Re: !
 

He is new to the forum maybe he didn't know about the forum until after he bought the car? I run into many people who don't have any idea how many sharks swim at the auctions when the sharks run their cars through. Heck even when you tell people they still don't believe you sometimes and get ripped off anyway both at dealers and at auctions.

Re: !
 

I think this car was discussed before as a rebody. I have notes in my database it was listed on Ebay and was a rebody. Here's a related thread from here.

RS COPO Rebody

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Well stated https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif I totally agree https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Then again Karma can be a bitch sometimes when you buy.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Les I am pretty sure Pete is a dealer in Florida, correct me if I'm wrong Pete. Not defending R/S but due diligence before purchase is always a good thing.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

So COPO Connection paperwork means nothing?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

The car has a real COPO vin and paper work but no piece of paper/documentation is going to tell you its a rebody. Yes COPO paper work means alittle to most but that doesnt mean the car doesnt have issues.