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Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
This seems like a very nice car:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BH29M9B27...1QQcmdZViewItem What is the story with the re-body, as far as value & collectibility? |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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What is the story with the re-body, as far as value & collectibility? [/ QUOTE ] I guess if you leave out the minor legality issue of what he did, it would be fine. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif This would be the perfect car for you if you like taking long romantic strolls through mine fields. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Wow. I never knew that car was a re-body.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
At least the seller is open and upfront about what it is...I'll give him credit for that.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
That is what I was thinking?
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
...Or he has no idea that he just confessed to a felony in front of 20,000,000 people. Oh, wait I thought I was watching the congressional steroid hearings again.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Sounds pretty serious. For my education, at what point is the line crossed? I've seen some restored cars where every body panel was replaced due to rust or accidents, etc. Or cars where the frame was rotted or bent so it was replaced. I remember replacing the blue GM vin tag on the door of my '72 T/A with a repro & being advised that typing the vin # onto it was illegal!!!
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
...a guy I know locally has survivor car like this except it is all green...a pretty rocking car...he hasn't had it out in years...
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
I know that car. I had my first dealership job in Mpls in the summer of '93, and that car was stored upstairs. It was very nice then. I talked to the owner at the time. IIRC, it had another of these "coveted now, not then" stories. It had supposedly sat on the dealer's lot until 1971, until they finally got an older guy to buy it to tow his boat. If he backed said boat in and out of water, plus a few Minnesota salted winters, it probably did need a bit of work.
I also remember that in the post price crash era of '93, he couldn't get $25K (or was it $20K?) for the car with a fresh restoration. He ended up trading it off to an exotic car broker. The restorer had many early Cudas, and they weren't expensive at the time, so I doubt there is any ownership history issues here with the M-code car or the Texas car. NJSteve, while I can appreciate your perspective, isn't every E-body that has had the dashboard replaced (gotta pop that VIN and grind those rivets) or every early Mustang that was hit in the front technically afoul of the law as well? (for reference, Mustangs had the VINs on the tops of the inner fender aprons, often replaced with ones from other cars when repaired. Many have been hit, and those front bumpers don't bump, they're just trim pieces https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif). I like the car. I still think its worth owning. I know he had a complete but rusty M-code Cuda when he started, and had a nice restored one when he was done. |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Don't buy a car like this and you won't find yourself defending it every time you are accused of owning a rebody. Only buy it if you plan to drive it, keep it, don't show it, and you won't have to explain it.This is one you drive it like you stole it every time you take the wheel, but, listen to these guys and don't buy it.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
"...THE FIREWALL AND DASH RETAINING THE M-CODE ID WERE CAREFULLY INSTALLED ON THE TEXAS DONER CAR AS WELL AS ALL OTHER IDENTIFYING MARKS..."
Besides the obvious fender tag and actual Vin tag jumping, I'd expect the "AS WELL AS ALL OTHER IDENTIFYING MARKS" statement mean he's cut out and welded/transfered whatever amount of the original car to include the hidden Vin locations on the rad support and whatever the rear area location is on the fastbacks (parcel shelf on the notchbacks)?. As much as the guy's being up front about it now, the disclosure is in hoping it's a way to cover his butt if ever necessary later after passing this car on to the next owner...but what he's done is waaaay beyond any gray areas of rust or collision repair and outright fraud!. There's better cars to find out there that you can enjoy without fear of the feds knocking on your door someday.. ~ Pete https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Well said
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
For the record, THIS guy hasn't defrauded ANYBODY. Whatever happened to this car happened almost twenty years ago, and there have been probably half a dozen dealers, owners, and brokers in the interim. Since this is the first I've heard of the "rebody" issue, he may be the one who discovered or was informed by the restorer of the issue and is now apparently giving full disclosure.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
If this guy's the one who performed the dirty deed or not, it's his baby right now and regardless of what he admits he knows doesn't make it Ok to do what he seems to be doing?.
Questionable cars seem a new rendition of the old 'hot-potatoe' game where whoever ends up holding it has to pass it on to someone else...or stand up and admit defeat!. The second choice obviously opens the door to bringing possible grief on themselves and others back through the line of previous owners...never mind the obvious legal costs of defending yourself through the process and being known as the squealer to the guys that were ahead of you to boot!. Sorry if the guy who has it now is a good guy that has maybe been handed the hot-potatoe...but what he's doing now seems his attempt at offering to pass it on if someone is willing to accept it?. If all's fine w/ what's existing now, it'd be no problem bringing the Feds into it to give their blessing about what's been done and obtaining something that states this in writing to pass on to potential buyers?. And good luck w/ that ever happening...more like they'd seize the car and it'd end up being stripped of it's goodness in some storage compound somewhere?. Again there's other better cars out there you can find and enjoy without fear of the feds knocking on your door someday.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif ~ Pete |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
What is this guy supposed to do? Keep the car forever? Part it out?
You guys complain when someone mis-represents a car and you complain when someone gives full disclosure https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif I wouldnt personally buy the car but im glad that the guy had enough self respect and integrity to atleast let everyone know what has been done. If there were more people willing to give this kind of disclosure we would all be better off. |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
It's winter time... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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What is this guy supposed to do? Keep the car forever? Part it out? You guys complain when someone mis-represents a car and you complain when someone gives full disclosure https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif I wouldnt personally buy the car but im glad that the guy had enough self respect and integrity to atleast let everyone know what has been done. If there were more people willing to give this kind of disclosure we would all be better off. [/ QUOTE ] Amen! |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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NJSteve, while I can appreciate your perspective, isn't every E-body that has had the dashboard replaced (gotta pop that VIN and grind those rivets) or every early Mustang that was hit in the front technically afoul of the law as well? (for reference, Mustangs had the VINs on the tops of the inner fender aprons, often replaced with ones from other cars when repaired. Many have been hit, and those front bumpers don't bump, they're just trim pieces https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif). [/ QUOTE ] OK here we go again. Taking the VIN tag off a Chrysler E-body, fixing the dash pad and replacing it ON THE VERY SAME CAR is entirely legal. Taking the VIN off a Ford Mustang inner fender, repairing or replacing the inner fender and the reinstalling the same VIN tag ON THE VERY SAME CAR is entirely legal. Taking the VIN tag off a 69 Camaro, replacing the commonly rusted dash panel and replacing it ON THE VERY SAME CAR is entirely legal. Are we all seeing a common theme here? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif Taking the cowl tag off a GM product, altering it to change codes, and putting it back on the same vehicle is not a criminal act (except in Oklahoma). Taking the GM cowl tag and putting it on another car it did not originally come on is also not a crime (except in Oklahoma) but in certain circumstances it can be considered an act of fraud and/or misrepresentation which could lead to a lawsuit in civil (not criminal) court for monetary damages. Replacing a duplicate blue conformance decal back on the car it came from originally is entirely legal. A conformance decal is just that, it was a decal placed on the car by the manufacturer notifying all observers that the car conformed to all safety and emissions regulations as of the date of its manufacture. It is not a VIN tag and is not treated as such under any laws. For example, you could never register a car simply based on that decal being on a door and no other VIN plates on the car. Taking the VIN or a section of metal that contains a confidential VIN and placing it on a car THAT IT NEVER CAME ON from the factory IS A FELONY (a really bad criminal violation = 5 years under the Federal laws). Are we all seeing the distinction here? It is the act of placing it on another body that is the illegal act. There is no "restoration exception" under the law. That Barracuda is forever tainted and depending upon the fickle mood of any law enforcement officer who comes across it (or who happens to have seen the ebay auction) the car can be subject to permanent seizure as VIN altered vehicles are considered contraband under most VIN laws and can never be sold or auctioned off. They usually get crushed unless the original body VIN can be determined. The proper, and legal (and extremely expensive) way to restore a car like that would be by cutting all of the rusted panels off it and replacing them, piece by piece, with the panels from a donor car. Yeah that's pretty crazy labor but it passes the test of whether the VIN section/panel was removed from the original car and then welded onto another one. Simply cutting that firewall out and welding it onto an intact donor body fails the test and makes the car a VIN swap violation. This is neither my perspective, nor my opinion, nor my personal feeling. THAT IS THE STATE OF THE LAW UNDER THE FEDERAL STATUTES AND EVERY STATE STATUTE RELATING TO VIN FRAUD. If you dont like the state of the law, then contact your local congressman (when he isn't fawning over steroid infected pro-ballers or trying to solicit illicit toilet companionship) and see if he can revise the law to allow a rebody restoration exception to the law. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif (By the way, this is basically the same schpeil I spew out every time this subject comes up. If my ranting saves someone from getting in trouble with the local or Uncle Sam's gendarmes, or saves them from losing six-figures on a bogus car and having to sue to get their money back, I have done my public service for the day.) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Thanks Steve. That clears it up once & for all.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
LOL https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif ...until the next time!
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Don't get me wrong, I'm as anti-rebody as anyone... but my point is that its already been done on the car in question...i think its a GREAT thing that the car is openly being described by the seller as what it is, rather than just passed off as something else, leaving some unsuspecting buyer to find the skeletons in the closet later. Are you saying he's foolish in doing this and should hide what's been done to the car in his description?
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
Suggestions for schpeil: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif 1. Chapel 2. shipley 3. cheaply 4. chippie 5. spiel 6. chippy 7. chill 8. chappie 9. Chile 10. chili 11. chips 12. choppily 13. ships 14. ship 15. Chaplin 16. cheapie 17. spill 18. chip 19. spile 20. choppy |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
You're obviously not using your Official Barbra Streisand Yiddish-to-English Dictionary are you? It is prominantly listed there along with all time favorites like Fahkaktah and Meshugenah. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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Don't get me wrong, I'm as anti-rebody as anyone... but my point is that its already been done on the car in question...i think its a GREAT thing that the car is openly being described by the seller as what it is, rather than just passed off as something else, leaving some unsuspecting buyer to find the skeletons in the closet later. Are you saying he's foolish in doing this and should hide what's been done to the car in his description? [/ QUOTE ] The seller is stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I would not buy that car with it's historical baggage. I really dont know what the seller can do at this point. I think the seller is trying to get the info out there to possibly limit his civil liability if someones thinks the car was misrepresented as an original body car. But his verbage in the auction is something of an admission in a criminal sense, even though he had no part in the body swap. It shows he has knowledge of the VIN swap. He most likely would not be facing any criminal charges but he (or anyone that buys the car) could very easily lose the car to a police seizure as contraband. And if a buyer loses the car in a seizure, then the buyer would then try to sue the seller. But since the buyer was fully aware that it was a body swap, the buyer would probably lose the lawsuit based on the fact that he bought it with full knowledge that it was swapped. Wow, that last paragraph is beginning to sound like the famous verbal duel in "The Princess Bride" between the Dread Pirate Roberts and the Sicilian Kidnaper, over which glass of wine contained the Iocaine poison in it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
NJSteve's explanation of federal law as it pertains to this is very clear, thank you (again) for the explanation. I don't disagree with your reasoning.
I keep arguing this even though I'm more of a survivor appreciative guy. Why, I'm not sure. I don't even like quarter panel replacement on my cars. Part of it is probably just rebellion again the enforcement of this stuff. Not that piecemeal cars should exist, but the fact that the enforcement of it is so arbitrary. We all know that who looks at the car, their knowledge, and mood all have great bearing on how "legal" your car is. How many pieces do I have to cut the donor car into before its legit? My E-body example is one I use to demonstrate the conundrum of going "by the book". In my state, Washington, if you decide to replace the dashpad on your Hemi Cuda, get ready. Odds are reasonably high that the person at state patrol you talk to will be inclined to confiscate that VIN tag as soon as you drill the rivets. They'll be happy to issue you a nice WA state VIN sticker to replace it. As for the early Mustangs, most cars that were repaired in the 60's and 70's used full inner fenders from donor cars and they just left the donor's VIN on there. God help them if the driver's door got replaced as well. The VIN is on the door tag, although it says right on it that its not an offical VIN. (Many owners think it is "THE VIN" however) Thus many older Mustangs sport somebody else's VIN in the main location. I once saw a Tri 5 Chev that had almost 300K invested in it. Vin Tag went missing when the body got dipped. Car got finished with aftermarket Chassis, so there's not much to ID it as the original car. Thankfully, the body shop found the tag in the car's folder a year after it was done! Again, once State Patrol sees a tag removed, they often want to take it and stick their own on. But what if you ask the Feds or Patrol what to do? You might get a Barney Fife who decides to grab the car and put you through the mill. Hard to risk when you're $300K deep. Any given street rod meet probably has 20% that don't have a usable VIN number anywhere on the car that corresponds to the title they have. That's dumb, but its true. Most of those early cars and trucks only had one number, or were originally registered by their (long gone)engine number. That one number is usually on the frame and gets obliterated when the V8 or IFS is put in. As an appraiser, my opinion to my clients is conservative, and I point out these issues as the serious liabilities they are, I do not give them short shrift. I shouldn't confuse my emotional opinion that large sections of donor cars seem at least as legit as cars that are patchwork quilts of patch panels and putty with the cold legal realities of the federal laws. But more cars than we'd care to admit hover around this line of legal peril. TOM (NOT the patron saint of rebodies) |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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The seller is stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I would not buy that car with it's historical baggage. I really dont know what the seller can do at this point. I think the seller is trying to get the info out there to possibly limit his civil liability if someones thinks the car was misrepresented as an original body car. But his verbage in the auction is something of an admission in a criminal sense, even though he had no part in the body swap. It shows he has knowledge of the VIN swap. He most likely would not be facing any criminal charges but he (or anyone that buys the car) could very easily lose the car to a police seizure as contraband. And if a buyer loses the car in a seizure, then the buyer would then try to sue the seller. But since the buyer was fully aware that it was a body swap, the buyer would probably lose the lawsuit based on the fact that he bought it with full knowledge that it was swapped. Wow, that last paragraph is beginning to sound like the famous verbal duel in "The Princess Bride" between the Dread Pirate Roberts and the Sicilian Kidnaper, over which glass of wine contained the Iocaine poison in it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif [/ QUOTE ] Lots of words there, but I'd still like to know if you believe the seller should hide the fact he knows the car is a rebody, as it seems like that's what you're implying... As someone else stated in another post, it seems like either way it's the "wrong" way... Tell it like it is and admit its a rebodied car, that's bad, but hide what it is, and sell it without full disclosure, that's bad too. So, which route should the seller take? While I wouldn't buy this or any other rebodied car, I still think its a good thing the seller isn't hiding anything or using a bunch of fancy words to hide what the car is... he's putting out there in plain english without beating around the bush, so there's no question as to what the car is or is not. IMO, you can describe all the laws and regulations you want, but in the end you gotta be on one side of this fence or the other...disclose the facts or don't. Which one are you on? I read your post 3 times but I really don't see an answer. If you have problems with the true history of the car being stated plainly in the ad then what do you think the seller should have stated in his description? Not trying to be an as$ about it, I'm just curious what your idea is of how this car should be described, if "openly and honestly" isn't the right way. |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
I dont give answers, I give arguments for either posiiton - that's what lawyers do. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif
The seller is stuck with a potentially siezable car. You wanted my opinion, that's my opinion. Whether he tells the world or not, does nothing to change the car's status, it only affects what level of liability any present owner faces from trying to pass it off to the next guy. It doesn't change the fact of the car's tainted heritage and the end-result it faces today based on that heritage. My advice to him, as unplatable as it is, is this: Take it to the motor vehicle department/highway patrol, explain the status and try to get a state VIN issued for the car. I think that is the only antidote for the poisoned VIN status of this car. We all know the value of one of these cars is intrinisically linked to the VIN code but this car's VIN-based value was destroyed years ago when it was rebodied. |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
All nicely put Steve but before everyone prints off your short version of what's right/wrong in the eyes of the law, isn't it necessary in some States and Provinces to have the delegated authority present when performing your mentioned 'entirely legal' situations and/or have given written notice of what's being done and in some places even receive an Ok to do so first?.
You're right on in the way you view this particular car...this guy'd be best to apply for a state issued Vin and devalued status that goes along w/ it before the car is removed from him and it's too late.. ~ Pete https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Having a law enforcement/DMV person present is something I haven't run into. Anyone have any info on this?
I can only imagine the bureaucracy involved of scheduling someone to be present at a body shop when you cut a dash top off a Camaro...or having to wait days or weeks til they show up, just so you can do the work. It's hard enough getting the cable TV guy to show up between 8 and 5, let alone a government official. I would recommend that anyone doing any type of major work near any VIN-related parts, take lots of photos of the progress, before, during, and after, just to CYA in case someone later claims you rebodied the car or moved numbers around. |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Steve, for the benefit of the guys who have no idea who Barbara Striesand is, (man am I getting old), "Spiel" in german means "play", and is a verb. (ie, "Play ball", play cards, etc.) A "schpiel", in Yiddish, means more like a "play" as what you would see on stage. A "big schpiel" is a long-winded explanation of something that could have been explained with a lot less detail. It can also be used as a verb, like when you're playing cards with someone who is taking forever to make up his mind. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif
I guess it helps being an MOT. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Amazing. And I thought I was the King of Useless Trivia. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif I guess I am only the Duke of Useless Trivia. You Sir, are the King.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
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Having a law enforcement/DMV person present is something I haven't run into. Anyone have any info on this? I can only imagine the bureaucracy involved of scheduling someone to be present at a body shop when you cut a dash top off a Camaro...or having to wait days or weeks til they show up, just so you can do the work. It's hard enough getting the cable TV guy to show up between 8 and 5, let alone a government official. I would recommend that anyone doing any type of major work near any VIN-related parts, take lots of photos of the progress, before, during, and after, just to CYA in case someone later claims you rebodied the car or moved numbers around. [/ QUOTE ] bureaucracy or not, if it is a state where this is required, then that would be "breaking the law" as much as any of the other points made..... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Sorry it's from a Rustang site but here's some thoughts to consider if contemplating some of the previously mentioned scenarios...for one it sounds like our eBay Cuda guy would fry for what he's doing?!.
http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm ~ Pete https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
After looking at those comments, I'm wondering about this: What is the 'spirit' behind these examples. It seems that these laws were written to prevent fraud, so the question comes up to me, is the intent to commit fraud, or is the intent to preserve a rare car by 'grafting' the heart onto a willing donor? I would think that if someone does the latter, they should get a state document or title identifying what has been done to prevent any problems. Perhaps this would be a salvage type title. IMHO, sadly many laws are written to blanket these areas because many times cars are redone to fraudulently deceive. I remember years ago visiting the Oriental Institute Museum on the U of Chicago campus, & seeing the loaded dice from ancient Egypt. As is being revealed every day in the news, cheating & fraud seems to be the chosen course for a good number. Thankfully most of the automotive hobby is filled with great people.
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Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry it's from a Rustang site but here's some thoughts to consider if contemplating some of the previously mentioned scenarios...for one it sounds like our eBay Cuda guy would fry for what he's doing?!. http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm ~ Pete https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif [/ QUOTE ] Very good assortment of statutory examples of the criminal aspects of VIN-play. As you can see, you don't have to be intending to commit the crime (i.e. operating a chop shop and swapping VINs from one car to another to hide a stolen car) to be guilty of a violation of these statutes. Swapping a VIN to another body during a restoration is more than enough the be guilty of the crime. The appeals courts dont seem to care what your motive was when they agreed that the various examples were violations of the law. As for the ebay cuda guy, Yup, even selling a VIN altered car falls under the statutes. Very scary indeed! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif |
Re: Thoughts on a 440 'Cuda
Here's some interesting reading on Vin location viewpoints State by State...more great info borrowed from the girls over at the Mustang site!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif.
Surprising some of it!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif. When you read this stuff, try and always think of how anything applys to any Vin location of a car besides the Vin tag itself...engines, trannys, hidden Vins locations and even documents?!. Also keep in mind where there's no info shown for some States, the rules there just weren't available for listing.https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif. California's statements could sure be taken a few different ways...especially if you're known as a manufacturer!?https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif. Arkansa & Georgia's boys seem on the ball w/ whatever's been going on there?!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif. And Idaho's!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif. I've read some Canadian stuff too and it seems like pretty heavy Criminal offences here now since clamp downs of recent years on the Montreal hot-wheels groups and those sending altered Vin recent model units and parts out of the country?. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif ~ Pete State & Contact Information Alabama Motor Vehicle Division www.ador.state.al.us/motorvehicle/index.html 334/242-9000 No changes to the VIN or manufacturer's plate without the approval of the Motor Vehicle Division. Alaska Division of Motor Vehicles www.state.ak.us/dmv 907/269-5572 No changes to VIN or manufacturer's plate permitted. Arizona Department of Transportation, Motor Vehicle Division www.azdot.gov/mvd/index.asp 602/255-0072 Phoenix 520/629-9808 Tuscon 800/251-5866 Toll-free in Arizona Vehicle must be inspected by the state Motor Vehicle Division when any changes are made. Three levels of inspection are required depending on the changes made. Contact the MVD before making any changes to vehicle identity. Arkansas Office Of Motor Vehicles www.arkansas.gov/dfa/motor_vehicle/mv_index.html 501/682-4692 State law mandates VIN verification by a law enforcement officer for salvage or restored vehicles. Have the VIN verified before making any changes or alterations. California Department of Motor Vehicles www.dmv.ca.gov 916/657-7971 800/777-0133 No person shall intentionally deface, destroy, or alter the motor number, other distinguishing number, or identification mark of a vehicle required or employed for registration purposes without written authorization from the department, nor shall any person place or stamp any serial, motor, or other number or mark upon a vehicle, except one assigned thereto by the department. This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the department authorizes the restoration, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof. Colorado Division of Motor Vehicles www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/home.asp 303/205-5600 Contact the Department of Motor Vehicles for more information. Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles www.ct.gov/dmv 800/842-8222 Toll-free in Connecticut 860/263-2700 Hartford area/out-of-state Vehicle must go through a Composite Motor Vehicle inspection at a state inspection facility if any significant changes have been made. State may assign a new VIN. Salvage vehicles must go through a state inspection. District of Columbia Dept. of Motor Vehicles www.dmv.washingtondc.gov 202/727-5000 Contact the Department of Motor Vehicle for more information. Florida Department of Motor Vehicles www.hsmv.state.fl.us 800/922-9000 Contact DMV or Department of Highway Safety for information. Georgia Department of Motor Vehicle Safety www.dmvs.ga.gov/motor 404/362-6500 DMVS wants to see salvaged and rebuilt vehicles both before and after they're painted. Hawaii www.co.honolulu.hi.us/csd/vehicle www.co.maui.hi.us/departments/Motor Vehicles/index.htm www.kauai.gov 808/873-3546 State DMV 808/532-4324 Honolulu 808/270-7363 Maui 808/241-6577 Kauai Hawaii motor vehicle licensing and registration is done county-by-county. Contact each county for specific information. Idaho Transportation Department www.itd.idaho.gov/dmv 208/334-8660 Not permissible to change or alter a vehicle or engine number. See Idaho motor vehicle statutes for more information. Illinois Vehicle Services Department www.cyberdriveillinois.com/services/services_motorists.html 800/252-3000 217/78-6992 Contact the Vehicle Services Department for specific information. Indiana Bureau Of Motor Vehicles www.ai.org/bmv/index.html 317/233-6000 All vehicles must have VIN inspected whenever they are titled in the state for the first time. Iowa Department of Transportation, Motor Vehicle Division www.dot.state.ia.us/mvd/index.htm 800/532-1121 Toll-free in Iowa 515/244-9124 Des Moines Contact the Motor Vehicle Division for more specific information. Kansas Department of Revenue, Division of Motor Vehicles www.ksrevenue.org/dmv.htm 785/296-3621 Vehicles registered on a county-by-county basis. Contact the Division of Motor Vehicles with specific questions. Kentucky Division of Motor Vehicle Licensing www.mvlky.gov www.kentucky.gov 502/564-5301 Contact the Division of Motor Vehicle Licensing for more specific information. Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles omv.dps.state.la.us 877/368-5463 Contact the Office of Motor Vehicles for specific information. Another option is www.legis.state.la.us. Maine Bureau of Motor Vehicles www.state.me.us/sos/bmv 207/624-9000 Contact BMV for specific information, included on the state Web site. Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration http://mva.state.md.us 800/638-8347 24-hour information 800/248-4160 Vehicle services Contact the Motor Vehicle Administration for specific information. Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles www.mass.gov/rmv 800/858-3926 Toll-free in Massachusetts 617/351-4500 Contact the RMV for specific information related to your restoration effort. Michigan Secretary of State www.michigan.gov/sos 517/322-1460 Go to the Web site and search for vehicle restoration. Minnesota Department of Public Safety www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs 651/296-6911 For more information on Minnesota's vehicle codes, e-mail [email protected]. Mississippi Motor Vehicle Commission www.mmvc.state.ms.us 601/987-3995 For more information about state motor vehicle laws and policies, e-mail [email protected]. Missouri Department of Revenue www.dor.state.mo.us 573/751-4450 Missouri has a new salvage definition law. See the Missouri DOR Web site for details. Montana Department of Justice www.doj.state.mt.us/driving 406/444-2026 See DOJ Web site for policy on proper handling of motor vehicle restoration and licensing under the law. Nebraska Department of Motor Vehicles www.dmv.state.ne.us 402/471-3918 For specifics, e-mail the state from Web page www.dmv.state.ne.us/admin/email. Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles www.dmvnv.com 702/486-4368 Las Vegas area 775/684-4368 Sparks/Carson City 877-368-7828 Toll-free in rural Nevada For more information, e-mail the Nevada DMV at [email protected] New Hampshire Division of Motor Vehicles www.nh.gov/safety/dmv/ 603/271-3111 Salvage vehicles must have a salvage inspection before registration. Once inspected, a DSMV 547 will be issued. Contact the DMV for more details. New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission www.state.nj.us/mvc 609/292-6500 888/486-3339 toll free in New Jersey Contact the New Jersey MVC for more information. New Mexico Motor Vehicle Division www.state.nm.us/tax/mvd 888/683-4636 For more information, e-mail the NMVD at [email protected]. New York Department of Motor Vehicles www.nydmv.state.ny.us No telephone information available. Visit the New York DMV Web site for detailed information. North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles www.ncdot.org/dmv 919/715-7000 North Carolina has a Title Registration Manual, as well as other booklets, for restorers with specific questions about state vehicle laws. North Dakota Department of Transportation www.state.nd.us/dot 701/328-2725 For specific information on Mustang restoration, e-mail the DOT at [email protected]. Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles http://bmv.ohio.gov 614/752-7500 800/589-8247 Toll-free in Ohio E-mail the BMV from Web page bmv.ohio.gov/registar_email.html. Oklahoma Motor Vehicle Division www.oktax.state.ok.us/mvhome.html 800/522-8165 Toll-free 405/521-2913 See the MVD Web site for detailed information. Oregon Driver & Motor Vehicle Services www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV 503/945-5000 See Web site for details on salvage/rebuilt vehicles. Pennsylvania Driver & Vehicle Services www.dmv.state.pa.us 800/932-4600 717/391-6190 Strict regarding salvage/rebuilt motor vehicles. All vehicles are subject to a state inspection. See Web site for more specifics. Rhode Island Division of Motor Vehicles www.dmv.state.ri.us 401/588-3020 Vehicles that have been rebuilt from salvage must be inspected by the state. For more details, see the Web site. South Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles www.scdmvonline.com Telephone numbers available online, county by county. Help is available via [email protected]. South Dakota Department of Public Safety www.state.sd.us/dps 605/773-3178 Little information on the state Web site. Call for more detailed information. Tennessee Department of Safety www.tennessee.gov/safety 615/741-3954 Texas Department of Transportation www.dot.state.tx.us No telephone number available. Safety inspection required when you put a vehicle on the road. More information available on the Web site. Utah Division of Motor Vehicles http://dmv.utah.gov 800/368-8824 Toll-free in Utah 801/297-7780 Go to Reconstructed Vehicles on the Web site for more details. Vermont Department of Motor Vehicles www.aot.state.vt.us/dmv 802/828-2000 Little information available on the Web site. Call for more information. Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles www.dmv.state.va.us 866/368-5463 800/435-5137 Antique and classic cars eligible for special license tags. See Web site for specifics. Washington Department of Licensing www.dol.wa.gov 360/902-3770 See Web site for e-mail address for questions. West Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles www.wvdot.com 304/558-3900 No information available on the Web site for restorers. Wisconsin Division of Motor Vehicles www.dot.state.wi.us/drivers 414/266-1148 608/261-2583 For more information visit Web site. Wyoming Department of Transportation http://dot.state.wy.us 307/777-4714 Specific policies addressing salvage and rebuilt vehicles. See Web site for more information. |
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