Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Dunno if you guys have seen this or not, interesting reading

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071208/clsa003.html?.v=27

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Sounds like he is well wiyhin his rights.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

That's for sure.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Sounds like two of many leeches who profit off of Shelby's incredible legacy.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

It sure sounds completely different then it was promoted in the press. No great surprise there.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

WAR Carol.. Good for him! And I hope he gets his stuff back..

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

And here is the response from Kopec.

"Everyone is naturally very curious about the Shelby Vs. SAAC situation. However, SAAC's lawyers have advised us not to engage in the displaying of selected pieces of correspondence on the internet. Nor should we respond publicly to any of Shelby’s printed statements. We are not paying these guys a hefty hourly rate just to disregard their advice. Answering allegations and presenting "evidence" in the court of public opinion may be of interest to club members and forum readers who view this as some kind of ongoing soap opera, but these kinds of things are best saved for presentation to the actual jury by trained lawyers if that becomes necessary. There are serious issues to be settled here, none of which will be decided on the internet. Forum members making comments or statements are free to say anything they wish, usually anonymously. They are not under oath to tell the truth, nor are they bound by perjury laws. Conversely, those with standing in the actual case could be called on to testify in court and anything written by them in a forum such as this could be presented as evidence. It does make you think before you write.

Several people have made statements regarding the licensing agreement that Shelby and SAAC's directors signed. Some have said they would like to see this document. That will not be possible because contained in the document was a confidentiality agreement. We could not post it even if we wanted to.

All this said, there seems to be some misinformation about the details surrounding what I discovered in the attic of Shelby's Gardena building. and what became of it. I have no problem laying out these details as I expect that if this matter finds its way into court I will be asked about them in detail. And I will say the same thing under oath than I am saying now. I offer them only to clear up any misconceptions and to hopefully set the record straight.

In the early 1980s, when I was visiting Los Angeles, I would stop by Shelby's Gardena facility to see Lew Spencer and Al Dowd, who were working as Mr. Shelby's administrative assistants. On one such visit, in 1984, Lew Spencer was showing me something the storage area in the attic above the offices when I noticed a long row of cardboard boxes stacked up, two or three high, against the eves. There were probably 100 or more. I asked Spencer what was in them and he said he didn't know. They were temporary cardboard file boxes with a handle which was used to pull out a drawer. Each drawer was filled with paperwork, documents, files of correspondence, work orders, invoices for parts, ledgers and financial records. All of the paperwork left behind by a medium-sized company which was no longer in operation. In the few drawers I opened I could not see any sort of organization. Things seemed to be thrown in haphazardly. Some boxes had obviously been spilled out and the contents scooped up and thrown back in the drawers. There were too many boxes to go through, each containing hundreds and maybe thousands of separate pieces of paper so I asked Spencer if I could come back the next time I was in town to take a closer look. He said I could spend all the time I liked.

Over the next ten years I was able to visit the attic perhaps a dozen or more times. Sometimes I brought one or two other club members with me. At first we were happy to make copies of what we considered the more important pieces of paperwork—usually anything with serial numbers on it. Some shipping orders listed 6 or more cars, all shipped on the same day. We often came in the summer when the temperature in the uninsulated attic was over 100 degrees. We had to bend down under the low rafters and there was only a single bare light bulb. Everything was dusty. The things we found were all pieces of a large puzzle but we quickly realized that not all the pieces were there. At some point, we knew we would never have enough time to go through each document or work order individually. And we didn't want to wear out our welcome (and Shelby's photocopy machine) so I asked Spencer if we could sort through everything and take entire boxes of stuff which I would pay to have shipped back to CT where we could review them more thoroughly and at a more leisurely pace. He said he would ask Mr. Shelby. He did, and Mr. Shelby said we could take anything we wanted because it had been there for 25 years and nobody had even looked in those boxes in all that time.

We separated out the boxes which had material that appeared promising. Since this was slow and tedious work it required several visits, over the period of a couple of years. As a box was filled we marked it to be saved and Spencer labeled them "Save for Rick Kopec" with my address on them. His worry was that somebody would give the order for the place to be cleaned out when he wasn't around and the stuff would be hauled out to the dumpster.

After we had looked through all of the boxes, we had separated 14 of them which would be shipped back to CT. Spencer said he would have some of his employees move them down to the first floor at some point and stack them on a pallet. I made arrangements for a couple of SAAC members to drop by a few days later, pick up the boxes and take them to a freight forwarding company for shipment back to CT. Included in the documents were two boxes of cancelled Shelby American company checks from 1962 to 1966. To my knowledge, Mr. Shelby never saw what was inside any of the boxes and neither did Lew Spencer.

Back in CT we sorted through the boxes and separated out everything which pertained to types of cars: 289 and 427 Cobras, 1965 and 1966 GT350s and even a few things relating to King Cobras and 1966 Trans-Am but every piece helped. It provided nowhere near a full accounting of the cars but it was better than anything we had discovered to date. This information was used in the 1997 registry. In most cases it confirmed what we had already discovered about these cars through owners and former owners. In a lot of cases the paperwork created more questions than it answered.

One of the chapters in the 1997 Registry was titled "The Evolution of the Registry." It outlined how the registry began and who was involved. It recounted the publication of each registry chronologically, ending at the present with the 1997 edition. In it I gave credit to Shelby for allowing us access to this factory paperwork and as we were interested in only the information on it, once we took that information the actual papers themselves had no value to us. It hardly mattered whether we had originals or photocopies. So I said that if Mr. Shelby ever wanted this stuff back he had only to ask because all we were interested in was the information. References to this was in Mr. Shelby's response statement. But, as Paul Harvey says, there's the rest of the story.

This Registry was printed and shipped to about 1000 people who had ordered a copy in advance of printing in December of 1997. About 200 more copies were ordered by members outside of the U.S. and shipping those required detailed customs forms which each had to be filled out by hand, one at a time, and attached to the boxes by a special plastic envelope. This took a lot of time and instead of attending the 1998 Las Vegas event in January, I chose to stay home to ship the overseas orders.

Mr. Shelby did not attend SAAC-23 in Charlotte in July, so the next time I saw him in person was at the Las Vegas event in February of 1998. There he told me what a great job we did on the book. I responded that the paperwork we found in his attic was a big help in filling in some gaps and answering some questions. He said that he was happy it was put to good use and there was no need for me to return it. When he said this, in the parking lot of his facility at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway on the Sunday of the event, there were four other SAAC members standing with us who all heard him tell me I could keep everything. Mr. Shelby seems to have forgotten that.

When I got home following the Las Vegas event I went through the paperwork and separated what appeared to have some historical value (most of it minor and esoteric) from that which did not (financial ledger pages, sales receipts for individual parts which were ordered through the mail, meaningless correspondence and the like). As I did not have unlimited space and was tired of moving these boxes around, I took the unimportant paperwork to the dump.

There were two boxes of cancelled company checks. Initially I thought they could be arranged to tell some sort of a story but there were too many (a guess would be more than 10,000) and no matter how you sorted or arranged them no discernible picture was created. Some were signed by Shelby and some were payments to employees or drivers. I began giving these away, a few at a time, mostly to regions putting on events (where they were used as door prizes) or at the conventions (at Watkins Glen we put a large number into a notebook for the silent bid auction, with the proceeds going to the Shelby Heart Fund). When the Shelby American Collection museum solicited items for its silent bid auction each winter I sent them a number of checks each year which they mounted with pictures of team cars or drivers. I gave a number of checks to Shelby, himself, for various Heart Fund functions. At Las Vegas one winter I met a guy who matted and framed pictures for Shelby and he began creating displays which were sold by the charity. I gave him a large number (a few hundred at least—about 3"). Shortly thereafter I heard he and Shelby had a falling out. Later I heard that some checks were being sold on ebay and I assumed they either came from the various ones I had been giving away or the ones the picture-framer took with him. It didn't concern me very much until Mr. Shelby began whining that someone was selling "his" checks on ebay. I asked him if he wanted the ones I still had returned and he said yes. So the next time I went to the Las Vegas event I brought two large boxes with me. Vincent Liska and I carried them into his office and put them on his desk. Frankly, I was glad to be rid of them.

I guess the kindest thing to say about Mr. Shelby's recollections, as recounted in his statement, is that his memory probably isn't what it once was. There were no "truckloads" of documents shipped to me. In fact, if he checks his attic he will probably find the boxes and boxes that were left behind. As for selling his stuff on ebay, I've never bought or sold anything on ebay. That should be pretty easy for them to check. And as for wanting his personal property returned, I have one question: what part of "give" doesn't he understand?"

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif Go Carroll go!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Does anyone have any insight on how this war started? It's very sad and not a positive thing for owners of Shelby's. I don't know anything about this dispute, but one thing is certain. SAACs registry efforts over the years are the single most important reason the 60s era Shelby value's have remained high.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Give Carroll the stuff back. End of story.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Two sides to every story....This is ugly. Remember, this "stuff" was useless junk to a visionary thinking ahead. But...when todays dollars are made recreating the past ...hindsight is 20/20.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

There's gonna be a ton of mud slung over this one....The true Shelby "enthusiasts" are gonna be hurt in the end..Sad.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Steve

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

------Does Shelby have an ego??? Sure! Does he deserve it??? Most decidedly! Does he have some degree of memory loss??? At his age, with his health problems,,,maybe. Should these licensees cut him some slack??? Just my opinion of course, but I would think so. Am I oversimplifying the problem??? My opinion again,,,nope!......Bill S

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

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Give Carroll the stuff back. End of story.

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The problem is he is not just asking for his stuff back. He is asking for everything SAAC has done since 1996.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

I have read what both sides have written and I for one believe Mr. Kopec is in the right here. There is no doubt he did not steal the records, he simply took, with permission, what at the time was considered worthless paperwork. To ask him to step aside, and turn over what he has worked hard to put together the last several years is not right. If not for him and other members of the SAAC, would CS, or anyone else for that matter, know, or care, about the written history of Shelby cars? It is obvious CS was not going to do anything with the paperwork or he would not have allowed it out of his sight.

Carroll Shelby should be thanking the SAAC for what they have done the past ten years, working with him in keeping the Shelby legacy alive. Yes, the SAAC has thrived, but CS, though the Shelby Foundation has reaped major benefits as well. The sad part, because it is being played out on the Internet, the biggest loser will be the Shelby name.

Of course, CS is not the first to wake up one morning and decide to bite the hand that feeds it. I know of at least two groups within the Chevy ranks that are experiencing the same problems as the SAAC. It is amazing, and often times shameful, what chasing the almighty dollar will cause one to do. Most members who attended the Fall Chevy/Vettefest know what I mean.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

The finances *should* be open to scrutiny, but it looks like CS is hoping to replace the SAAC with his own people.

"The bottom line is my legacy should be left in the hands of my family and real enthusiasts."

But he's wanting to claim the registry that others worked on for himself?? If he were to use the records he wants returned he could eventually rebuild the list, but that'd take some time. From my viewpoint, when you read the next line, it sounds like he's already figured everything out...

"Team Shelby won't be run that way. You have my word on it."

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

the only ones coming out ahead in this whole situation are the attorneys.
too bad something couldn't have been worked out.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

SYC??? Why did Shelby even keep the paperwork in the first place and not just toss it out. No he kept it, albeit in the attic. Who is to say nowadays with everything worth so much that CS might have had someone put it all in order later??

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

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SYC??? Why did Shelby even keep the paperwork in the first place and not just toss it out. No he kept it, albeit in the attic. Who is to say nowadays with everything worth so much that CS might have had someone put it all in order later??

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As they say, hindsight is 20/20. At the time, if CS had felt the paperwork had any value, I am sure he would have kept it, but he did not. Why should the SAAC be pentalized for having the foresight that CS apparently did not have? If CS wants control of the SAAC, there are better ways to do that rather then destory it.

I am not knocking CS, as I am in awe of the cars he built (well, excpet the Dodges https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif), giving him his due respect for his accomplishments, I just feel the SAAC is right in this situation.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have any insight on how this war started? It's very sad and not a positive thing for owners of Shelby's. I don't know anything about this dispute, but one thing is certain. SAACs registry efforts over the years are the single most important reason the 60s era Shelby value's have remained high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about the SAAC being the most important reason for the values of the good cars remaining high. Imagine how great it would be if the chevy's had that.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

The value the paperwork now has is larely atrributable to the work SAAC has done. I'd like to know where the boxes of paperwork that Rick did not take but left in Shelby's building is now. If its been disposed of then one could make a strong argument that the records he does have would have likely suffered the same fate.

If past performance is any indication of the direction and stewardship the history and records of these cars will receive while under SAAC's control vs. their possesion by CS, his heirs and business partners I hope that SAAC continues to control them.

Perhaps a complete copy of all records and documents can be made and both parties can use them to promote these cars. Then the memebership and owners of these autos can decide which groups best represent their interest.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Here's how a lawyer might see it: Say a guy bought one of the old cancelled Shelby checks on eBay that was innocently given away by one of the SAAC guys years ago. The buyer leaves it on the kitchen table, it falls on the floor and the baby eats it. The baby survives but has brain damage from oxygen deprivation linked directly to choking on the paper. The only part of the check that survived the incident has Carrol Shelby's signature and company name on it. The family of the injured baby, faced with immense hospital and future care expenses, calls a lawyer. The lawyer looks for the deepest pockets, the lawyer quickly realizes that it's Carroll Shelby and Co. and files the suit. (Pain and suffering by the parents, hospital and future life care expenses for the baby, the millions of dollars the baby would have earned if he/she had grown up and lived a normal life and made millions of dollars, etc., etc.) That is how I think a lawyer would look at this--on both sides.

No offense to lawyers. Everyone hates lawyers until they need one.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have any insight on how this war started? It's very sad and not a positive thing for owners of Shelby's. I don't know anything about this dispute, but one thing is certain. SAACs registry efforts over the years are the single most important reason the 60s era Shelby value's have remained high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about the SAAC being the most important reason for the values of the good cars remaining high. Imagine how great it would be if the chevy's had that.

[/ QUOTE ]


Not to pat ouselves on the back, but we do have that, sort of, in the sYc. IMO, if not for the sYc and the endless contributions of its membership, I do not believe the great interest in supercars, and rare Chevys in general, would exist. Case in point is the article just posted by Kasey from Camaro Performers magazine. Tell me seeing those pics from SCR10, especially the ones from the track, does not make one's heart beat a little quicker. My wife was even impressed by the one showing Barnhart with the front wheels in the air.

BTW, same as the SAAC, I would be very upset, and defensive, if someone told me that the sYc had to surrender control of everything we have work so hard to accomplish the past ten years.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Shelby has also been giving out the checks as raffle prizes so he had already have insurance against that baby chocking.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

[ QUOTE ]

Not to pat ouselves on the back, but we do have that, sort of, in the sYc. IMO, if not for the sYc and the endless contributions of its membership, I do not believe the great interest in supercars, and rare Chevys in general, would exist. Case in point is the article just posted by Kasey from Camaro Performers magazine. Tell me seeing those pics from SCR10, especially the ones from the track, does not make one's heart beat a little quicker. My wife was even impressed by the one showing Barnhart with the front wheels in the air.

BTW, same as the SAAC, I would be very upset, and defensive, if someone told me that the sYc had to surrender control of everything we have work so hard to accomplish the past ten years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's something we can all agree on!

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shelby has also been giving out the checks as raffle prizes so he had already have insurance against that baby choking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I suppose his lawyers would have thought of that a long time ago.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Read in Car and Driver that the Carroll Shelby Foundation has amassed $3,000,000 in assets since its founding. The majority of the accumulation has come from the sale of special cars donated by Ford and auctioned at various auctions. It further stated that the foundation has only disbursed 1% of its receipts.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

That is true but in defense of Shelby he has stated he wants to build the fund up to the point where he can dole out interest of the funds so it keeps on growing after he is gone.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Ditka's in the same hot water with his NFL player's charitable fund--very little disbursement to needy ex-players.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

Many trust funds operate this way. The Getty Museum has enough funds set aside to maintain the museum in perpetuity as well as continue collecting art.

Re: Carroll Shelby Licensing Response
 

SAAC has been a superb guardian/custodian of these records that have clearly made Shelby cars a safe collectible with a very organized history. Thay have always been willing to share any and all documentation with people owning or contemplating purchases. They do this for little or no money and the published registries are readily available for a fair price. It's very clear to me that somebody has got Shelby's ear that this info could now be a perpetual source of income and WE can make some $$$$. Shelby was a very dedicated supporter of SAAC and was outspoken in his appreciation of their work to maintain his cars history. Shelby and I spent some memorable one on one time on a Carribean cruise with our wives about 15 years ago and discussed briefly how great it was that SAAC had his cars so clearly documented unlike so many other collectible cars. I do have photos but unfortunately no audio. This whole mess makes me both sick and irritated. I for one hope Shelby comes to his senses and settles this amicably with SAAC so they can continue their good work in keeping these great cars history alive and available.