Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

For a year or two I have frequented this forum, and found it both entertaining and informative. Though I have posted a car or two for sale, until now I have always been shy about entering into a discussion. As both a vintage car owner and an owner of an automotive repair facility for the past 30 years, I have had to deal with many unexpected changes. First, the MTBE in the fuel, and now the Ethanol. As if this wasn't bad enough, the recent change in engine oil really confused me. After watching people buy GM EOS, and other magic potions, all with the hope that they will be able to protect their flat tappet garage jewels, I decided to make a phone call. I contacted Intercontinental Lubricants Corporation, a small company that blends Exxon base stock with their own additives to manufacture a very high grade motor oil. They are primarily known in the motorcycle world for their product marketed as Spectro. They also blend a very high grade synthetic and conventional oil for automobiles. This is the only oil I have used in my shop since 1980. After a brief discussion with David Miller, the President of the Company, who also happens to be a top-notch mechanic, as well as a good friend, it was decided that a quality vintage motor oil could be made in limited quantities that would meet all the needs of our cars, both muscle and antique. My question to you is simple: Would you buy it? It would be available in 10/40 or 20/50 and the price would, hopefully, be affordable at $4.00 per quart. Understandably, I realize the possibility of a major oil company's producing the same product, but I assure you the engineering of this product will be top-notch. While I do not profess to be a chemist or an engineer, I have always thought of myself as a business man who knows how to surround himself with quality, knowledgeable people in order to get the job done. Your opinions are sought, and greatly appreciated. Regards - Frank Carangelo (860)354-4461 or (203)788-1745. email: [email protected].

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I think there is definitely a niche market for the correct muscle car era oil out there. Our cars are now a market sector that has been completely disavowed by the current oil companies. Go for it!

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Please my NOS oil reserves are getting low!

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Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I don't think there's a niche market for muscle car era oil at all. Except for on display racks like Dog's (and mine). Owners of these rare cars want the very best oil they can find, and today it's the HD diesel oil like Rotella with the best additive package to protect those old bearings and journals during storage, cold starts, short run times, rich, sooty combustion by-products, moisture and the high vapor pressures of today’s fuels washing down cold cylinders........JMO.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gifVerne

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Is Rotella a good option for our stuff ???

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is Rotella a good option for our stuff ???

[/ QUOTE ]

"Rotella".....Diesel Oil.......Trucks usually have Diesels...........I guess if you have a "Truck" Engine in your car it's O.K............LOL....

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

P.S..... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ffSucksToo.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Vern - I appreciate your reply, and I wish it was that simple. But, unless you purchased your Rotella or other high-quality diesel oil six months or so ago, you will now find that it has been re-formulated, and no longer contains the same quantities of zinc and phosphorus. I went to great lengths to explore every avenue possible prior to this decision. Please keep the comments coming. Regards --Frank

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

It seems to be Bob. I sat in on a tech seminar regarding engine oil at the Mopar Nationals in Carlisle. The speaker there recommended Valvoline Blue 15w40, which is a diesel oil and similar to Rotella. Cummins recommends Valvoline Blue. It just goes against everything we have come to understand to pour diesel oil into our muscle car engines.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I am with Verne. I believe Rotella-T is the best oil you can buy right now. Brad Penn is also very good along with Mobil Racing. I think some cam manufacturers suggest Rotella also. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif Sam

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Kickass cabinet there Dog.
I need to fill my Sel Oil as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...inetsunoco.jpg

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

With TastyKakes! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/drool.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Im running Brad Penn 20w50 green racing oil in my Camaro.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I use it in my solid lifter BBC 496. Some of the cam companies mention using the "Diesel Oils" i.e. Rotella and Delo 400. Stuff you can get at Advance or Auto Zone or Wally World. Their was an article on this issue in one of the mag's CC or SC or CHP. I also recommend running the new EDM solid lifters with new solid cam installs.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

You will never know what engine it is....the 409 emblems are on the side of the fenders....not on the rear of the car ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Franks right about Rotella and all the diesel oils they are reformulated and no longer have the zinc because of the new emission systems .

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

The Rotella has been reduced, but still has an adequate amount from what I've read.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I would buy the Spectro. I have been using Spectro oils in ALL the Harleys I have serviced and maintained for my customers for a quarter of a century. The best oil I have found for air cooled engines.
There is a guy on Team Chevelle that has had some oils tested. The results may surprise you. Mabey someone will post a link to his results.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Heres one post on the oil testing. There are more on the site somewhere.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201446

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

"Truck Motor????""" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif....Wise guy! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

I've also heard that the amount of zinc has been reduced in Rotella, but it was my understanding that it is still higher than most other brands. Yes, it does sound a little strange to put diesel oil in our cars, but since those engines generally see harder service (and are expected to last a LOT longer) oils with better additive packages were developed. The diesel oils also have an "anti-sooting" additive which our cars don't need, but it doesn't hurt anything for it to be there, IT's a "no care".

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gifVerne

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

We discussed this oil before so take another look
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
PJ

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

has anybody tried this stuff?
http://www.zddplus.com/

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Quote from JohnZ

The "diesel oils" have also been affected recently. The API-spec "CI-4" diesel oil (which has a very high level of ZDDP) has been around for a long time (Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, etc.). However, the new EPA Tier II Bin 5 diesel emission requirements that go into effect next year require the use of catalytic converters and particulate traps, which are "poisoned" by the high level of ZDDP in the CI-4 diesel oil, so there's a NEW diesel oil, API spec "CJ-4", with a much-reduced level of ZDDP, intended for use with the new low-sulfur diesel fuels in the 2008 Tier II-regulated diesel engines.

CI-4 diesel oil offers better protection for sliding elements than the new ZDDP-reduced CJ-4 diesel oil; diesel oil used to be diesel oil, but now there are two DIFFERENT diesel oils.



--------------------
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

Link to the thread his quote came from:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post254979

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Frank, I think there is definitely a market for it at that price. Some education would have to be delivered to help create demand for the product. Not everybody is aware of all the re-formulation going on; Rotella and other diesel formulas used to be "the answer" but now maybe not so much..
-Sam

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

The whole thing sucks. We're trying to preserve pieces of history here, and the government (in their infinate wizdumb) wants to rid us of everything needed to preserve the past!

Uh-Oh, did I just make a political post????? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Verne,
I think you can rail against the generic government, as long as it isn't personalized with "damned liberals" or "stupid evil Bush".
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
-Sam

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I too have read that the amount of zinc (sulfated ash) content in oil will go down in diesel oils in the near future. It is unfortunate because Rotella is cheap and readily available. I use Rotella in my 'Cuda now because the 340 was built back in 1980. At the time it was built, had the largest hydraulic flat tappet purple cam available installed, so the big springs are hard on the cam and lifters due to a tight 108 LSA and a lift over .500". I guess that if we have to go back to conventional oils, then a camshaft/engine break-in lubricant will have to be added at every oil change. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif One of the articles I read recommended this. The author said he had been doing it for years. When I was at a super wal-mart the other day, I noticed an oil forumulated for vehicles made previous to 1988. I believe it was one of their house brands. Does anyone have any info on this oil? It was pretty cheap too.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Hi all. I saw this product being discussed over at another board.
http://www.zddplus.com/

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

This is precisely the same info I have gleaned as not only do I run Rotella T in all my three Olds W cars, I also have an old Ford PSD with 200k miles and hoping for 500k. It's had a steady diet of Rotella T CI-4 forever. Rule of thumb is if you see anything on there about CJ-4, it's the new lower zinc formulation.

The only way to get that now is in the Synthetic Rotella T which still seems to be in the CI-4 category everywhere around here. That stuff is expensive when you consider 14 quarts every 3000 miles. The small extra cost per year in the muscle cars is no biggee.

Oh yeah, the Citgo diesel oil here at Murrays is still CI-4. I'll park everything before I use anything Citgo. And yup, that's a political statement.

I think a good formulated oil at $4.00 a quart would be great. That's bout what I was paying for the old Rotella T CI-4 and CI-4 Plus.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

I agree wholeheartedly with your political statement on Citgo.

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Thanks for all the response. All of it is appreciated. Understandably, consumer education is critical in this endeavor. All the additives on the market currently seem to meet our needs at this time, but my approach is completely different. In these changing times just about every lubricant, as well as gasoline, requires some sort of additive to maintain the similar levels of performance and durability that we expect from our cars. It appears that they are no longer optional, all conceived, in my opinion, to compensate for already inadequate products we all purchase. Some European manufacturers have taken the vintage oil situation to the next level by producing a more than adequate performance and protection oil for both their performance and antique automobiles. It would be simple to buy and market these products in the U.S., but unfortunately, due to the weak dollar, and higher costs of petroleum, doing so would result in a quart price of about $12.00 or more. Through continual discussions with ILC Spectro, a new additive package possibly called "Zincare" (trademark pending), blended with the best available base stock will produce a product that both protects and performs under the most severe of conditions. We all use our vintage cars differently, some for daily use, some for racing, and some strictly for show duty, some stay in long-time storage. Our new product is engineered to address all of these situations with no compromise. Hopefully, the perfect blend can be found soon, so we can continue with testing prior to sale. Thanks for the continued support. Regards -- Frank

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

"Our new product is engineered to address all of these situations with no compromise."

So this thread was a marketing test?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Vern - I started this discussion to see if a need existed. The product is still in the planning stages. I chose this website because it seems to be fair and unbiased. So if you call this a marketing test, sobeit. This product is being developed because I am sick and tired of having to add supplements to my own high performance and antique vehicles. Unfortunately, I can't just have a case or two made for myself. I thought, and still think, that this is a marketable product for all vintage automobile owners. And should I make a few dollars doing it? If it fills a need in our hobby, what's wrong with that? Someone has to get it done. Regards -- Frank

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Our new product is engineered to address all of these situations with no compromise."

So this thread was a marketing test?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez Verne, Frank is up front about his intent, outlines the weaknesses of our current over the counter oils, and seeks our feedback as to our interest and viability of this proposed product. You can call it anything you want, but he is at least attempting to remedy the situation with a new product and is asking for our input. You have a problem with that???

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Not a problem https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif I just didn't realize it until the very end. It caught me by surprise because I thought it was a general query about bringing back "old" oil for our old cars.
I would gladly be part of the market for new oil with the best additive package available. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Verne

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Howard found the tread about oil that I was looking for. There was another link in that thread that I was thinking about, from the Ferarri guys, that bored me to sleep, but might be useful to Frank.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles
If you scroll down to Chapter 6, he makes his recommendations for which oil he deems is best for the applications that he outlines. Interesting to compare his choices with the other link that shows the pictures of how certain oils performed in lab testing. I switched to Rotella because, as I learned here, Comp Cams issued a tech bulletin that spec'd it for use with their products.
I don't doubt his research, but as it is said about doctors, for every 2 doctors you will get 3 opinions. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

If you have a couple of hours to burn, check out the NCRS archives as this subject comes up every couple of days. Here's a link to one of the better discussions: Oil Discussion. Some of these guys have really done their homework on this which has made me perfectly comfortable continuing the use of Rotella 15/40. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
We discussed this oil before so take another look
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
PJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Further to this oil testing . In 1968 at a car club meeting of the Weston High Performance racing club meetings I invited The representatives of the Bardall products. They used the same methods for oil testing .After testing many oil brands with the same results they used Bardall B1 additive on the bearing. The bearing with the Bardall B1 additive
had amazingly no wear on the bearing even with 3 times the load on the bearing. I have been using it since.However
they cautioned on using it for break in as the rings would not seat.
PJ

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We discussed this oil before so take another look
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
PJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Further to this oil testing . In 1968 at a car club meeting of the Weston High Performance racing club meetings I invited The representatives of the Bardall products. They used the same methods for oil testing .After testing many oil brands with the same results they used Bardall B1 additive on the bearing. The bearing with the Bardall B1 additive
had amazingly no wear on the bearing even with 3 times the load on the bearing. I have been using it since.However
they cautioned on using it for break in as the rings would not seat.
PJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool story PJ.. Was Wallie Branston there too...he was the driver of the 'Barhdall Rocket' that used to race at the CNE track and others?. He's a great old fella who was also the Starter/Flagman at Mosport in the 60's and is in the Cdn. Motorsports Hall-o-Fame..

Do you remember that Canadian oil-less drive test they did years ago...maybe was even done at Mosport also may have used '66/67 Chevelles/Beaumonts??. Either way, they filled the crankcases w/ whatever oils they were testing, ran 'em then drained them and ran them again to see how far they'd go without oil...forget if they supposedly drained the filter too?. Anyway, some went waaaay further than you'd ever expect and I always suspected some foolishness went on as regardless of remaining protection on the surfaces, the lifters should've collapsed?.

~ Pete
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Interesting, I don't remember the reps only the test. I could not beleive it when they put water in place of the oil then ran the bearing test . the bearing seased imediatly,then they cleaned the bearing and put water in the tray then a few dops of Bardall ran forever with no wear ont the bearing.
PJ

Re: Engine Oil and Muscle Cars
 

Vavoline has a racing oil which uses the materials that other brands are taking out, the zinc and magniseium.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...61759_-1_10461