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-   -   New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma! (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=94777)

VintageMusclecar 10-08-2007 06:34 AM

New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Could this be the beginning of the end for the bogus clones? I wonder if any other states have similar laws on the books, and if not, what it would take to get them ON the books.

Eric

rubbinisracing 10-08-2007 06:40 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Lynn....care to chime in?

Verne_Frantz 10-08-2007 06:55 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Yes Lynn, are you ready to go public with the project now????? It's been very hard to keep it to myself for so long, but now this ground breaking news is finally out in the open. And the more open, the better!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gifVerne

njsteve 10-08-2007 03:29 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Awesome! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Now watch all the ebay adds for bogus tags now start adding a "not available for purchase or delivery to Oklahoma" disclaimer.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif But, on the other hand the statutory language now creates jurisdiction for a law enforcement officer in Oklahoma to prosecute anyone, anywhere, not just physically in Oklahoma, (read that as the internet, especially ebay) that offers a tag for sale, since the internet reaches (some parts of) Oklahoma. See language below"

"3. Manufacture, offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a counterfeit trim tag plate; or"

"4. Offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a trim tag plate that was affixed to a motor vehicle at the time of manufacture but has since been removed or become dislodged."

And, it makes the victim eligible for 3 times the damages plus costs and legal fees in a civil case for damages. WOW! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

This is plaintiff lawyer's wet dream! I can just see the TV ads now... "Have you been injured by the malicious affixation of a counterfeit trim tag? Call the law offices of Bendham, Over and Reamum. We are in your corner!

VintageMusclecar 10-08-2007 04:07 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
...This is plaintiff lawyer's wet dream! I can just see the TV ads now... "Have you been injured by the malicious affixation of a counterfeit trim tag? Call the law offices of Bendham, Over and Reamum. We are in your corner!

[/ QUOTE ]

And you can bet the defendants will be represented by the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem and Howe https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Eric

Verne_Frantz 10-08-2007 05:48 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Steve,
I and others have repeatedly sent ebay letters to try and get them to ban the sale of trim tags, but their position was always that the trim tag didn't contain any "vehicle specific" information, like a VIN does. OF course, they're wrong, but they refused to budge. I wonder what they'll do once they've seen this new OK law????

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gifVerne

PeteLeathersac 10-08-2007 06:38 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Lynn, are you ready to go public with the project now????? It's been very hard to keep it to myself for so long, but now this ground breaking news is finally out in the open. And the more open, the better!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

As Verne notes, it's nice things are out in the open now...also really great to see all of Lynn's hard work finally bearing fruit!.
It's sure going to be interesting to see how quickly things spread also the implications of this legislation...totally amazing what one small guy can make happen!!.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif
~ Pete

69hurstSC 10-08-2007 09:18 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
this is awesome! there was a 71 Hornet SC in a junkyard near me with a missing VIN. i have always wanted to find the "clone" that the tag was applied to. it still amazes me conversing with retag owners and listening to how they proclaim there car as original or restored to original.

Lynn 10-09-2007 07:00 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Thanks for the email, Verne. I have been out of pocket much of the last few weeks, and have barely checked in on this site or on the Team Camaro site. Actually, I talked to a few guys about this at the Supercar Reunion, and yes, I am more than ready to go public with this. I really enjoyed the reunion. Even though I don’t have a Supercar or a COPO, I never felt like an outsider. Great car guys (and gals) and great conversation. And the cars! Bet I took 100 pictures of two REAL survivor cars with original paint. It was especially satisfying to put some faces with some of the names. Good to meet so many of you in person.

On to a more serious subject. Many of you know that I have been involved in the legislative process trying to get swapped trim tags and fake trim tags outlawed in Oklahoma. Well, as you can see, we were successful. It was relatively easy. It really did not take an inordinate amount of my time. I met with my State Senator, Glenn Coffee. Simply showed him some of the latest fraudulent auctions on ebay, and explained what was going on. He was shocked. He got Senator Myers (who has an old collectible Ford) to sponsor this legislation. I did a first draft, and, after meeting with some of the lawmakers and concerned lobbyists, only one rewrite (also consulted with Verne Frantz and some other guys to get some input). That’s it. Once the lawmakers saw what was happening with swapped and fake tags, they were on board. The bill in Oklahoma passed the Senate unanimously, and passed the House 87 – 10. The new law goes into effect November 1, 2007. Here it is, in its entirety:

An Act relating to motor vehicles; prohibiting certain acts relating to motor vehicle trim tag plates; providing exceptions; providing penalties; allowing defrauded persons to pursue civil action and recover certain damages; allowing court to award certain costs; defining terms; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA:
SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 4-107a of Title 47, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to:
1. Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle manufactured from 1953 to 1977;
2. Knowingly affix a counterfeit trim tag plate to a motor vehicle;
3. Manufacture, offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a counterfeit trim tag plate; or
4. Offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a trim tag plate that was affixed to a motor vehicle at the time of manufacture but has since been removed or become dislodged.
B. Paragraph 1 of subsection A of this section shall not apply to:
1. Any person who engages in repair of a motor vehicle, provided that removal of the vehicle's trim tag plate is reasonably necessary for repair of a part of the vehicle to which the trim tag plate is affixed, and provided that such trim tag plate is not intentionally destroyed, altered or defaced; or
2. Removal of a trim tag from a motor vehicle which is being junked or otherwise destroyed, if the removal is being done for historical documentation purposes by a person actively involved in judging events or for historical documentation of classic motor vehicles and reasonable precaution is taken to ensure that the tag is not sold or affixed to another motor vehicle.
C. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act a second or subsequent time shall be guilty of a felony.
D. In addition to any other civil remedy available, a person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may bring a civil action against any person who knowingly violated this act regardless of whether that person has been convicted of a violation of this act. A person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may recover treble their actual compensatory damages. In any action brought pursuant to this subsection, the court may award reasonable costs, including costs of expert witnesses, and attorney fees to the prevailing party.
E. As used in this section:
1. "Trim tag plate" means a plate or tag affixed to a motor vehicle by the manufacturer which displays numbers, symbols, or codes that identify characteristics of the vehicle including, but not limited to, date of manufacture, body style, paint color, engine option, transmission option, trim option, general option, interior option, and interior color;
2. "Counterfeit trim tag plate" means:
a. any trim tag plate manufactured by a person or entity other than the original manufacturer of a motor vehicle upon which the trim tag plate is designed to be affixed, unless the trim tag has been permanently stamped, in the same manner as other information on the trim tag, with the words "REPLACEMENT TAG" in letters measuring at least one-eighth (1/8) of an inch in height, or
b. any trim tag plate which has been altered from its original manufactured condition so as to change any of its numbers, symbols, or codes; and
3. "Motor vehicle" means the same as defined in Section 1-134 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2007.
Passed the Senate the 26th day of April, 2007.

______________________________________________
Presiding Officer of the Senate
Passed the House of Representatives the 18th day of April, 2007.
______________________________________________
Presiding Officer of the House of Representatives
Approved by the Governor of the State of Oklahoma on the 4 day of May, 2007, at 4:04 o’clock p.m.
______________________________________________
Governor of the State of Oklahoma


If you want to look it up on the OSCN (Oklahoma State Courts Network) you can go here:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...?CiteID=448975


I want to make it clear that this isn’t something that will be voted on. It has already passed and has been signed by the Gov. It will be the law in Oklahoma November 1. As Steve noted, it allows 3 times actual damages PLUS attorney fees. Why? Biggest problem most victims of tag fraud have when seeking recourse is simply that they can’t find a lawyer to take the case, and if they do, they can’t afford to hire the lawyer. It wasn’t intended so much to be a lawyer’s dream, as to turn the victim’s nightmare into the perpetrator’s nightmare. Also, as some guys noted on Team Chevelle, the state isn’t going to go looking for these guys. That is precisely why we gave it such strong civil remedies. Now the state won’t have to spend taxpayer money enforcing. In fact, I consulted with the head of white collar crime in the Oklahoma County DA’s office, and he suggested ultra strong civil remedies. Less work for his office.

It is my sincere desire that this is only the first of 51 steps. However, we need help from guys in all 50 states and D.C. You can use this law as a model law. I am not saying it is perfect, but then you and your legislators can change whatever you want. Send it to your representatives. I will be glad to compose a form letter of sorts in either Microsoft Word or Wordperfect format for you to send this to your representative. Ask him or her to introduce similar legislation in your state. Then follow up with an email. Then follow up with a phone call. Request a face to face meeting. These guys have folks on staff that can put the language in “bill” form. They just need something to model it after. Send me a PM or an email at [email protected]

How many times have some of you guys posted a link to an auction, or mentioned some car being sold with a swapped trim tag or an outright fake trim tag, and asked: “How can they get away with this?” or “Why isn’t this illegal?” Well, the reason it isn’t illegal is because no one ever passed a law making it illegal. You can do it in your state. I will be glad to help in any way I can. I know Verne would be glad to lend assistance as well.

Let me hear from you. I will be posting this on three web sites trying to garner some support. Time to quit whining and do something about it.

Thanks to the Administrators of this forum.

Lynn Bilodeau

427king 10-09-2007 07:47 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
This is great news. I will change my mind though if i see attorneys handing out business cards with a booth setup at Carlisle.

Lynn 10-09-2007 08:47 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is great news. I will change my mind though if i see attorneys handing out business cards with a booth setup at Carlisle.

[/ QUOTE ]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

WILMASBOYL78 10-09-2007 09:00 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Looks like the Oklahoma folks have it going on...first they deal a blow to the illegal aliens and now the trim tag rip off folks... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

..wonder what they will tackle next https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif



wilma https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Xplantdad 10-10-2007 03:50 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Great news Lynn! BTW, it was a pleasure to meet up with you (though very briefly) at the reunion. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

55chevy 10-10-2007 04:50 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Lynn.. Great job https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

ZL1#17 10-10-2007 05:38 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma
 
CONGRATULATIONS, Job well done! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Mr70 10-10-2007 08:52 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
This is very good news to hear.I congratulate you on seeing it through.
Does this Okl. law include original style trim tag rivets as well?

Hylton 10-10-2007 10:45 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does this Okl. law include original style trim tag rivets as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think so for the reason that it recognizes the fact that some individuals may have the need to remove the original trim tag to perform repairs on the car. If that is the case then by default, it must recognize the need to put the original trim tag back on with something.

Verne_Frantz 10-11-2007 03:06 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Boy, this new law is taking a bashing on a few sites. Seems that a lot of people are broadening the topic to include changing any parts they want to change on the car to make it appear as it "could" have been built. Trouble is........they also consider the trim tag simply as another "part". Once you change all the other equipment on the car, then the logical final step is to change the trim tag to go with it (just for points in judging of course.....ha ha). (by the way, points=dollars later)
That same kind of thinking has evolved into reproduced build sheets to go along with the whore presentation (that was a typo, but it was so appropriate, I left it).
And it can go even further. I've seen a complete 3-ring binder full of documentation, including fake receipts from repair shops for work on a 4-spd transmission.........when I know 100% from my research that the car was originally built with a P/G. And guess what, the restoration of that '63 Impala was done by a guy who specializes in Corvette restorations!!!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gifVerne

njsteve 10-11-2007 03:16 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Boy, this new law is taking a bashing on a few sites. Seems that a lot of people are broadening the topic to include changing any parts they want to change on the car to make it appear as it "could" have been built. Trouble is........they also consider the trim tag simply as another "part". Once you change all the other equipment on the car, then the logical final step is to change the trim tag to go with it (just for points in judging of course.....ha ha). (by the way, points=dollars later)
That same kind of thinking has evolved into reproduced build sheets to go along with the whore presentation (that was a typo, but it was so appropriate, I left it).
And it can go even further. I've seen a complete 3-ring binder full of documentation, including fake receipts from repair shops for work on a 4-spd transmission.........when I know 100% from my research that the car was originally built with a P/G. And guess what, the restoration of that '63 Impala was done by a guy who specializes in Corvette restorations!!!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

They're probably the same "guys" who, after being dissatisfied with merely being tranvestites, go the full transexual route complete with the "gender reassignment" surgery. They then, logically, would try to have their birth certificates altered to show them as originally being equipped with female parts. After all, it's only for show, and who's getting harmed??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

No one, unless you just happen to be the poor SOB who picks one up at a bar one night.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

...or buys one of those "transexualized" cars that was originally a green on green, 6 cylinder, powerglide, Camaro coupe and it's now, through the wonders of modern surgery, a X-coded, firewall tagged, Vin-swapped, Hugger Orange, cross rammed, JL8, RS-Z/28. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Verne_Frantz 10-11-2007 03:27 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Steve,
Your analogy to birth certificates is one I have used too. I consider the cowl tag as part of the birth certificate of the car, NOT intended to be altered.
One may be born Richard Wadd, so he can change his hair color, eye color, weight, height, hose, chin, belly and butt cosmetically. But even if he changes his birth certificate, he's really still just a Dick Wadd. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gifVerne

Hylton 10-11-2007 03:28 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Boy, this new law is taking a bashing on a few sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've said it Verne. Some of the guys who are bashing are hovering on every single word and acting like the law was developed over a few beers at an Okee barn raising party. It's amazing how many armed chair lawyers are out there!

njsteve 10-11-2007 03:48 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Yeah. Leave the arm chair lawyering to us real lawyers. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Hylton 10-11-2007 03:54 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Pro bono work? Right.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

427king 10-11-2007 04:26 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
A lawyer calls his client to tell him about his fee schedule.

"Alright," the lawyer says looking through his papers. "You owe me $1000 down and $417.58 cents each month for the next thirty-six months.

"What! That sounds like a car payment schedule," retorted the client.

"Your right. It's mine."

Verne_Frantz 10-11-2007 05:29 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Please, let's not turn this into ANOTHER lawyer bashing thread.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
For those of us who aren't in this hobby just to make money, this thread has far reaching meaning.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gifVerne

Jonesy 10-11-2007 07:01 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
No, the guys bashing it are guys who never frequent the camaros.net and got kicked off this site and others.
Basically 1 guy. That is not the concensus of the members over there!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Canucklehead 10-11-2007 07:45 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
It seems to me that the ones that would be bitching over this are people with skeletons in their closet. But then again it dosent matter how it is written some crook will find a loophole and exploit it. They will never stop when there is a buck to be made.

Hylton 10-11-2007 05:02 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that the ones that would be bitching over this are people with skeletons in their closet. But then again it dosent matter how it is written some crook will find a loophole and exploit it. They will never stop when there is a buck to be made.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

PeteLeathersac 10-11-2007 05:21 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
So after this is implimented, if someone offers a vehicle for sale on eBay or elsewhere that has a conterfeit trim tag affixed, they'd now have to state in the ad that it's not available to residents in the State of Oklahoma?. And maybe not even the reason why will have to be disclosed, but a knowing seller should include this disclaimer to avoid legal troubles...also seeing this could become a good tip off that it knowingly has conterfeit tag(s)?.

~ Pete
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ouguysrock.gif

Mr70 10-11-2007 05:46 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
I forsee an Ebaymotors catch phrase comin...."Not OK in Ok."





rubbinisracing 10-11-2007 06:11 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
"Void where prohibited"

Lynn 10-11-2007 06:29 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Wow. Think I will hang out here for awhile. Much friendlier than over at Camaros.net right now. Although, as someone stated, the opposition is definitely in the minority.

Verne: "whore presentation" OMG, I didn't even notice the typo until you pointed it out. Almost spewed coffee all over the screen. Then I read about Mr. Wadd. I am sure my legal assistant thinks I am in here losing my mind. Thanks man. I needed a good laugh today.


Ed. I need to get up to Tulsa, and have a beer with you. I had corresponded with your good friend Larry just a couple of weeks before he passed, planning to get up there for a beer, but didn't make it in time. Even though I never met him, I felt a connection to him as I do with all the "real car guys" I cross paths with. I think it would be awesome if you and I could meet in person and raise a couple of cold ones to Larry. I know you miss that S.O.B.

Sorry for the personal notes.

BTW, just in case anyone is still reading this, it is the camaraderie of the "real car guys" that make this hobby as great as it is. In a way it is a shame that the economics have become what they are. That is what has brought out all of the snakes. Like Murray (Canucklehead) said: "They will never stop when there is a buck to be made." I just want to make it much more difficult. Hit them in the pocketbook. Since that is what matters most to them, that's where it should hurt the most.

Thanks again for all the support.

Lynn Bilodeau

VintageMusclecar 10-11-2007 07:19 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
(if I may butcher a snipet of "Hamlet" for a moment...)

Methinks some doth protest too much. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

427king 10-11-2007 09:14 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
Im going to bid the moon on every fake trim tag car out of OK i can find. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

agtw31 10-11-2007 11:35 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
who would enforce the law,the highway patrol?

SmallHurst 10-12-2007 12:01 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
[ QUOTE ]
who would enforce the law,the highway patrol?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably so. In Missouri and Kansas, you must actually bring the vehicle in so that title transfer and inspection can occur. Guess who does this? It will not take long for the fakes to be found.

king_midas 10-12-2007 01:17 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
It's like that in Cali. also, and they also look at the vin. When my wife brought her Honda in, they also looked to make sure the engine number matched; that surprised me.

The cops don't even look at tags; I'm not sure what you mean, SmallHurst....

Xplantdad 10-12-2007 04:25 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!
 
No Lynn...thank you. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

mrrec 10-12-2007 06:21 PM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma
 
[ QUOTE ]
No Lynn...thank you. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Bruce.....

I don't really see a downside to this. The complainers (wonder what their motivation is.....)seem to miss the paragraph about legitimate removal, etc. Resto is covered and exempt the way it appears to me. It's a non-issue.

Dave

70CitrusZ 10-13-2007 06:27 AM

Re: New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma
 
Some random thoughts.....
I just hope this law doesn't impact innocent people negatively. Sure its a great tool in the fight against fraud, but it won't stop the problem, and isn't the total answer.
For one thing,I think that more pressure needs to be put on the manufacturers to come up with and maintain the records on the vehicle data related to the vin.
There should be hell to pay for GM simply saying "we don't have those documents". Once again the onus falls to the little guy and the big corporations are off scott free.
Imagine if you will, that GM was forced to dig up the documents that they have. There would be no question as to the authenticity of a vehicle.
In Canada we are spoiled, because any Canadian sold GM vehicle has micro fiche stored vin based corporate documentation available to anyone with a vin,not just the vehicle owner, so there is no possibility of "faking" a tag to read what you want it to read.

Also, companies that sell replacement trim tags should be forced to visually document damaged originals in order to replace them, and then the original then marked/logged in such a way as to void its further reproduction or alteration. These company's records should be spot checked periodically to validate they are correct and complete.

Another thing is, I know of more than a few people who during a resto, remove the plates from the car to either dip or blast the body, and prevent damage to the plates. Having done that makes them a criminal? I don't feel that is right. A proper and complete concours resto on a rusty shell cannot occur without introducing potentially hazardous materials and processes to the tags, which are really quite fragile. I realize there is provision for this in the law, but what is to stop a person from causing trouble for someone else who has done this for legitimate reason? who is to say if it was a legitimate reason or not? It is now at his cost and expense to prove otherwise that he did not have criminal intention. Even if he is innocent its gonna cost him some money to prove his innocence.

Lastly keep in mind, that in the eighties and early nineties before there was so much aftermarket sheetmetal available, a common and generally accepted way of fixing a really rusty rare car was to re-body it fully or partially.
I really thought nothing of people who were replacing rusty muscle car bodies with six cylinder grandma car rust free bodies, it all seemed fine and good, and actually a lot of people preferred this method as it retained the factory assembly techniques and engineering, which was better than hammered up patch panels ,bondo and chicken wire.
Are the people who currently buy and sell these cars from early restorations headed for the slammer too?.

How exactly does one prove that the current seller of the car made the changes, authorized the changes, or even knew about the changes when the vehicle has had multiple owners, or been farmed out for restoration?.

Another casualty will be people who have been unknowingly ripped off and (also unknowingly) own a fake tagged car. They will potentially be criminals when they do not deserve to be.
Not all car enthusists or owners are experts on their cars, in fact these days more of the opposite is true. More and more of the muscle car owners group, especially the really pricey cars, really don't do anything more than buy and store the cars.
So, simply saying "they should have known, because all us car guys know these two numbers line up to make the tag be legit etc" Is not a fair or accurate statement.

....I think that the law isn't a bad one, but, it most certainly will be nearly impossible to prosecute fairly, anyone under it, unless an eye witness to the illegal activity can be produced, and plenty of evidence supporting that the illegal activity that has taken place, has actually been done by the seller of the vehicle is provided.
Without iron clad irrefutable evidence, it is both unfair and unjust to prosecute a seller of a questionable vehicle.

Just my .02, well maybe .25..I rambled a bit.

Mark


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