1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Does any of this make sense to Pontiac knowledgeable people? I went to a local warehouse the other day to look at a 69 Corvette. While there, I also looked at the owner's other cars. This one caught my eye. He could have told me anything about Trans Ams and I wouldn't have known right from wrong.

What he did tell me was this is a T/A built for a member of GM management. He said it is documented (I didn't have time to go to his other building where the docs supposedly reside). He also showed me a PIC of THE car in a Book titled 'The Fabulous Firebirds.' In it, it wore a MI license plate 'PMD-71.'

It really is a nice looking car, but, whether it is the real deal or not, I have no idea. Please share any knowledge or opinions any of you may have concerning this car.

Regards,

Mark

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Driver/TAI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...river/TAII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...AInteriorI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...InteriorII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n_TATrunkI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4.../TAEngineV.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...TAEngineIV.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...AEngineIII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...TAEngineII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4.../TAEngineI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...tn_TABookI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n_TABookII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._TABookIII.jpg

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Without the docs to prove it, there's no way to determine if it is what he says: a company exec car. Did you get a VIN#? From the interior it is a 1970 (low back seats with seperate headrests). I have the same book. The book also notes that problem with the photo mentioning: "This car was identified as a the 1971 model. Photos confusingly show low back seats and trim rings."

Beautiful car either way. Neat combination of red, white and blue. Good fourth of July car! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

I didn't really get much info on the car, at all. Sorry for the links instead of PICs. Let me try what Bruce just told me....Here Goes!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Driver/TAI.jpg

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Thanks, Bruce.

Mark

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Now Bruce has created a monster. I don't know about the car, but, the new camera takes nice shots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...AInteriorI.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...InteriorII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...TAEngineII.jpg

OK, I'm done.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Is the car for sale?

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Yes, the car is for sale.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Are you on it? If not, I would appreciate any information that you could give me. Thanks, Ed

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Ed,

I am on it if I can learn what the Hell I'm looking at. I am on a 69 435 Corvette from the same owner. I will let this group know if and when I'm off it. It seems like a neat car, there is a PIC that seems to document the car exists and it is claimed to be documented. I will visit the owner again this week.

Regards,

Mark

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Bruce.

Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a problem Mark. Glad I could help! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

No idea what that crazy black "Y" brace is on the driver and passenger sides of the engine compartment. ??? Looks like it was designed to punch through the passenger compartment and skewer both the driver and passenger in the event of a head-on collision, though.

BTW another 1970 clue: the single snorkel air cleaner. the 71 and 72 455 HOs had the dual snorkel unit.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

This is what I've learned tonight from the current owner. This car is a 70 1/2 T/A that was specially built for a GM exec and delivered to said exec by a dealership called Packard Pontiac in Detroit. After he was finished with the car, he sold it to a home builder (still alive). The home builder had the car titled for the first time. The third owner never titled the car, but, kept it for approximately 20 years. The fourth owner (current) had the car titled in his name.

Sooo, there are no factory docs on the car, but, there is a complete and verifiable owner history. Couldn't PHS help out here, even on a special build? Could it be that PHS would show the build without any special options or colors that were added after paperwork was generated and prior to flipping the keys to the exec?

Tomorrow, I am going to learn more specifically names and timetables and phone numbers.

Regards,

Mark

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

------737,,, That would be Packer Pontiac and it is no longer around. However,,, the son of the original owner, Bill Packer owns Packer Cadillac in Flint right off of Rt.69 on the east side of town. He is a bit of a gearhead as I brokered a 66 427/390/ac, maroon/black Vette roadster from him a couple of years ago. He had several other mid-year Vettes as well, all nice. It might be worth a call to him as he worked for his Dad back in that era. He is a nice guy, and I dont think he would be bothered.
------Packer Pontiac was the sponser of the swiss cheese 63 Catalina that sold at Mecums auction along with the other cars from that same collection. Packer may not have had the name that Royal had but they walked the walk.......Bill S

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Bill,

Thanks for that info. Do you know if most of the brass hat cars were delivered through Packer?

How's your buddy, Jack out in CA. I fly with Karen from time to time.

Regards,

Mark

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

------Hi Mark,,, You mean Jack the go-kart king??? He seems to be doing OK. Hes trying to corner the vintage go-kart market as we sit here. Dont know the answer to your question about Packer. Its a possibility.......Bill S

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Mark, get the PHS docs on the car, this may answer your question(s).

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Bill,

I last saw Jack in the PHL airport and had lunch with him. He didn't want to talk much about Corvettes, just carts. Those Corvettes have been good to him. Maybe he will bring a cart to be certified this year at Bloomington.

Mike,

I hope to send for the PHS docs tomorrow after I get the VIN.

Thanks,

Mark

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

[ QUOTE ]
No idea what that crazy black "Y" brace is on the driver and passenger sides of the engine compartment. ??? Looks like it was designed to punch through the passenger compartment and skewer both the driver and passenger in the event of a head-on collision, though.

BTW another 1970 clue: the single snorkel air cleaner. the 71 and 72 455 HOs had the dual snorkel unit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that those "Y" braces were offered by Herb Adams as part of his "Fire Am" suspension package.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

You need to get the VIN and then order the PHS invoice sheet on the car. If it was an exec's car it will probably have "Pontiac Motor Division" as the destination dealer instead of a traditional dealer name. Executive destined cars aren't necessarily worth any more than a similar optioned/condition T/A but it's nice to have the bragging rights.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

Did the 70-72 2nd gen Pontiacs have the 73 and newer style camaro console in them?

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

njsteve:

Were all Pontiac Motor Division delivery cars executive orders? I have a 1969 T/A and the PHS shows it delivered directly to PMD. By the way, I've been following your restoration and it's awesome! Thanks, Ed

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

They could be anything from the steno pool secretary ordering her new car, to the President of Pontiac to a zone office press car. If it was to be delivered to them it would usually say "Pontiac Motor Division." My old Z11 pace car was a zone office press vehicle and it's docs showed it being delivered to "Chevrolet Motor Division" with the accompanying zone office code (14000 if I remember correctly)

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

I have had Pontiac info poured into my head with a fire hose today. I spoke with Jim Mattison for a good long while today and he supplied me with very straightforward answers to my questions on this particular unit. The short version is it is a 70 T/A. There you have it! Another important note is it does not appear to have been an executive tag unit and even if a lower status employee had ordered it, it would have reflected the associated employee discount on the paperwork. Most likely, if an executive had ordered it, it would have been loaded with options. Also, Steve is correct about another point. If it had been an executive tag unit, it most likely would have been delivered to the PMD store and not a store in Detroit although Packer was a 'high profile' dealership (like Royal).

Bottom line, in my opinion, this is a very nice car with documentation that proves what it is, a nice T/A with neat colors. The current owner states it has the original engine, tranny and rear axle it was born with. I didn't look for myself so I can't verify that. It has been nicely restored, but, how many of the component numbers match this car (exa. fan clutch, exhaust manifolds, ball joints, etc.) I couldn't say.

Another neat thing about it is the low mileage (17,XXX) and the owner says he has mileage statements to prove it.

I am out on the car. If anyone else is interested, shoot me an email or PM and I'll give you his contact info.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ver/PHSDoc.jpg

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did the 70-72 2nd gen Pontiacs have the 73 and newer style camaro console in them?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a very Camaro-centric veiw of the situation. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif That is the correct 70 to 81 Firebird 4 speed console with the seatbelt mounting clips. Camaros initially had a different version and I think later went to also use this style.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

That is a beautiful car and if the drivetrain checks out as original and the cowl tag confirms the color combination, it would be nice addition to anyone's garage. (insert appropriate amount of envy here) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

As an owner of a 71 T/A, I can tell you this car, from afar, looks to be in great condition. I can attest, after attending car shows throughout the west, that 70-73 T/A's are rare. What's more, T/A's in this condition are even rarer. If the price is right, and the mileage checks out, it might be a good buy.

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did the 70-72 2nd gen Pontiacs have the 73 and newer style camaro console in them?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm fairly certain that Camaros used Firebird Consoles!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

You have a PM.

Thanks-Dandy Don

Re: 1971 Brass Hat Trans Am???
 

love that car. The interior is spectacular....Whats he asking ?