the next Supercar??
 

I am new to the hobby. Actually, I haven't even bought my first muscle car yet. I am working on a 1966 Coronet 400. It has a 440 (NOM) and a 727 Torqueflite. My dad gave it to me and I have worked for 3 years to get it back to streetable condition. With his blessing, I am selling the car to finance my first Bowtie muscle car.

I have the car sold for $18,500, to be delivered next week. I don't have a small fortune to spend on a Yenko or Baldwin or any other hero car. I love 1st gen z/28's but I can't afford those either. So my question is, what is the next Supercar going to be in your opinion?

Since I can't afford the cars so hallowed on these pages, what would be my best buy for under $20,000. I'm afraid even the 1LE cars are out of my price range these days. Do you all think the SLP cars are worthwhile investments? I'm talking about the Firehawks and fourth gen ZL-1 cars?

Don't think I'm one of these jerks who are only interested in the money they can make. I love these cars. My work truck is an 86 Chevrolet 1/2 ton with a 327/350HP from a 68 Vette.

However, there is no reason to be impractical. If I can enjoy a V-8 powered Detroit monster and make a healthy profit when I decide to sell it, then all the better.

So what's the next Supercar registry going to be devoted to?

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I am no fortune teller but, I see the Fox body Mustangs; particularly the coupes as the modern day Camaro. They were plentiful, inexpensive and easy to work on. I also think the 4th Gen F-bodies are worth watching as are the Buick GN's. Those would be my picks for cars that might increase in value; but what do I know? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I think you are dead right on the Grand Nationals. I've watched their prices rise over the last 2 years.

Something else I have considered is pocketing my cash until they start taking orders for the new Camaro. Has anyone heard anything about engine option and trim packages?

I know GM will offer race prepped Camaros for competition, how would you order one?

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Regarding domestics, the Fox-body Mustang and the GN/T-Type. My opinion is the 1986 Mustang-- MPFI, 8.8 axle, and pre-1987 Tempo headlights. For the GN, obviously the 1987, because it's intercooled.

For both platform, all parts interchange, so you don't have to be married to the most desirable year. It's really a grab-bag for either car, and you can have more fun than kicking a beehive with either for under $10K total.

I'd stay away from 3rd Gen F-bodies mainly because of the rear end and weight. And then there's the 4th gen, which look like landed catfish (yuck...). If you don't care about the looks, bargains are all over the place for worn-out pre-96 Z28's.

Re: the next Supercar??
 

What's a 'bargain' pre '96 Z in $'s?

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I really like the Fox 5.0's, but IMO the '86 is the weakest purchase. They have really crappy heads and pistons with no valve reliefs to deal with better heads or any hidden mods to cam or rockers. I think really nice '85 GT/5sp cars are good (Last of the Holley 4bbl cars, but remember 5sp ONLY, autos got crappy CFI injection) Also really nice LX 5.0/5sp models. Stripped '87/'88 Coupes and loaded '91-93 hatches are the cream of the crop, IMO. 1993 Cobra models are the peak of that model, with good brakes, GT40 heads and intake, etc. They will always have value, and are already appreciating. '86/'87 Grand Nationals are great, and I think they will usually have broader appeal than the Turbo T's and T-types, even though they're more common. Less sure for collectibility but a whole lotta fun are the GMC Syclones. I'm not a big late model Camaro fan, but even I really like the last few years of Camaro SS models, no T-tops in either Red or Black with the 6sp. For any of these, buy the nicest unmolested car you can find, preferably with low miles. But I wouldn't discount a well maintained car with higher miles from a fussy owner.

I don't think any new car purchase should be made if you're at all concerned about investment. You'll be waiting a while for the value to come back up to what you paid, and for most cars, that day never comes....

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Of course certain drivetrain and most open top versions are out of sight, but I can't help but still see a lot of Pontiacs as a solid investment...especially considering the available PHS documents!.

Good luck in whatever you choose, but the best advice is always pick what you personally like and can enjoy regardless of how well the appreciation factor looks or works out!.

Any shots of the Coronet you can share?.

~ Pete
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: the next Supercar??
 

IMHO, not a SUPERCAR, but a Super car........
If you've got 18.5k to play with, try and squeeze (ie Beg Dad) a few thousand more (around 25k) out and buy a 1970 Z28. For 25$ you should be able to buy a nice #match driveable project, or for 13-15k, a non drivable project.

The 1970 Z's are one of the fastest appreciating GM musclecars around, and with a stock 360hp, one of the best performing stock small blocks around. In fact, this is the same motor that the Yenko Deuce came with in 1970!

Make sure it is the correct and born with 350 LT1 motor, and drivetrain, and restore one of these guys with Dad.

FWIW, my .02

Rich

Re: the next Supercar??
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's a 'bargain' pre '96 Z in $'s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen cars that need work and have gotten to the point where they've been abused in the $3 - 4K range. I'm assuming you'd call that a bargain...?

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Tom,

With all due respect, you don't know your Mustangs very well. The '86 head is a myth; everyone knows that any stock Ford head needs to be replaced to take advantage of a cam swap, so you're swapping heads on any 85 - 93 FI car to begin with if you're opening it up for internal mods. The '86 responds to bolt-ons just like the rest of them, and the speed density computers in the '86 are more aggressively tuned out of the box; most are misinformed because of the heads, making the '86 is a bargain compared to the rest. On top of this, the '86 is lighter than 87 - up, carries the EECIV and all applicable wiring, upgradable fuel pump hardware, etc., etc., making for easy upgrades.

The '85 is a terrible choice due to the Holley, the 7.5" axle, and a single exhaust. I would never recommend an '85 to a non-knowledgable Mustang person.

All that being said, the GM turbo cars, including the Syclone and (whatever the Blazer was called) are incredibly cool. Other than the Corvette (obvioulsy) and new Cadillacs, they are the most significant GM cars of the last 20 years, due to the application of technology for drivability, mileage, and performance. I love me my small-blocks, but look at the performance world today-- Turbos everywhere, and smaller engines that rrrrrip. GM, where are you?

Speaking of which-- Does anyone remember the chrome-yellow Camaro concept in C&D; would have been about 1987 or so, that was equipped with the GN-turbo six tuned to 300 or so hp...? This was the car that was supposed to be the 4th-Gen, but GM dropped the ball...

Re: the next Supercar??
 

What about the 1989 Trans Am Pontiac Turbo coupe? I saw one of these click off consistent 12.80's at Houston Raceway Park back in 1990 or 1991 with nothing more that a flowmaster muffler and computer chip. Same engine as a grand national but in a sleeker body. I believe they only made a limited number, something like 2000 or so. White with Beige interior and Gold spoke wheels, it really was a good looking car.

I also had a 1986 Mustang LX which I purchased in 1986 with 2000 miles. Finally modded it up to the point of building a 347 stroker, 5 speed Tremec, Cobra R's, etc. That car was a blast!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86...6/DSCN2315.jpg
Paul

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Paul,

You're correct-- The Turbo T/A is also way under the radar. By the way, that's a great looking Mustang. You do know that that particular car is very rare...

I guess the only problem (well, some may consider it a problem...) is that all performance offerings from GM w/a turbo were automatics. Now, turbos are better in automatics because they constantly stay spooled up and under boost, but the fun-to-drive, and possible track-day events (if you're into turning rather than straight-lines) are constrained by not having a manual.

Hooray the GM turbos...

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I only saw about three other 86 coupes like mine the whole 17 years I owned it. Sold it in 2003 to make room for a low mile 98 Cobra.

Paul

Re: the next Supercar??
 

actually, a 66 coronet with a 440 sounds like a cool ride. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I agree that $3-4k would be a bargain!!

My pic has always been the '89 TT/A - it's only got Lesabre heads on it, nothing to worry the GNX guys https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif (BTW, the GNX is my #2 pic of next supercar)

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Here is a nice 89 Turbo TA one on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-Pont...1QQcmdZViewItem

Paul

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Hey the Syclone is pretty damn hot!!:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GMC-Sonom...emZ200083545167

Not sure if it the collectable of tomorrow though.....

Re: the next Supercar??
 

First off, I have to apologize for dismissing the '86 Mustangs King Midas went to the trouble of recommending with such a cursory excuse. Though I bristled when told I don't know Mustangs, I realized later that I brushed off his advice to the poster without much tact or explanation. So here's what I SHOULD have said about Fox Mustangs:

I like '85 5.0/5sp cars. They were the first ones to really make me take notice (I was 16, and I read the Car & Driver article over and over...). They're the last hurrah of carb musclecars, and are probably the easiest ones for "old school" guys to get into, if only because they look nice under the hood. The dual snorkel air cleaner and finned valve covers are just neat looking, even with all of the smog stuff. I liked the new styling, and they had real 60 series tires (no more goofy TRX wheels and tires).

'87/'88 was really when 5.0 stuff started catching on, and you start seeing a lot more articles, especially in the East Coast magazines with Tony DeFeo and Steve Collison's LX's (among others) doing impressive stuff. This seemed to be the time when you could order a truly stripped down model, with basic seats, roll up windows, and no radios showing up on car lots. I'm pretty sure Ford started upping the options into packages later, so you don't find '90-93 cars that stripped down.

I've had two '90 LX 5.0 hatches, a '93 Cobra, and an '85 GT 5sp convert that I bought from the original lady owner with 50K miles on it. I don't like '87-'93 GT's with their hokey taillights and their unnecessary ground effects. I'd put up with them if there weren't LX's, but thankfully I never had to make that choice.

My anti '86 bias mostly comes from that late'80's/early '90's mindset. Those flattop pistons with no valve reliefs meant that you were going to have to buy pistons and really get into the motor if you were going to build it up at all. This seemed a waste, since '87-'92 HO 5.0's had forged pistons that could take a lifetime of abuse, and had the valve reliefs. I only wanted to deal in bolt-ons. Here in 2007 its less of a factor, especially if you're planning on rebuilding the engine anyway.

But I would argue that '86 5.0's are always going to be the middle child, a 'tweener like '64 Vettes. They're not the first of that body style, and '87 is really when that engine got embraced by the masses in its 225hp tune. And rightly or wrongly, the heads/pistons issue is what dogged them then, and they carry that stigma whether deserved or not. So value-wise, I don't think they're ever going to break out, at least compared to the '87-'93 cars. You can call them the best of both worlds now, but they never had that rep "back in the day".

(Wow, I'm finally old enough to have car "back in the day" stories https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif )

I've never had an '86, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the piston deal precludes you from doing an E303 cam or even 1.7 rockers, even with aftermarket heads, does it not?

Obviously I know what you can build 5.0's into, but if collectibility is kept in mind, you really don't want run a bunch of aftermarket hardware on the car. There's a lot of modified cars out there, that's why stock ones are gaining in value!

The stripped '87/'88 LX cars are the epitome of 5.0 story (going fast for cheap), and the '93 Cobra is the ultimate development of the concept by Ford. The '85's are a sentimental favorite of mine, and could be a good fit for traditionalists (weak rearend be damned).

Respectfully,
TOM BRESKE

Re: the next Supercar??
 

The stock Swirl Port heads were quite restrictive. Back in 86, I ran the car basically stock with a 3.27 gear and clicked off 15.0's @ 90 mph. A year later, installed the hot "Truck heads" with some mild porting and it was like a night and day difference. With those heads and 3.73 gear, the car was running low 14's at 100 mph, everything else stock. I still have the stock short block with flat top pistons since I used another block to build the 347 stroker.

Out of all the musclecars and other assorted vehicles I have had over the years, that 86 LX Mustang 5.0 was the best bang for the buck, most enjoyable to drive, easy to work on, best car I ever owned. The parts available for these cars in the used and aftermarket segments is staggering. I would love to own another one, preferably a low mile 87-91 LX Coupe, unmolested, and in stock form (Good Luck).


Paul

Re: the next Supercar??
 

I've always thought the best looking Mustang was the '00-04 model. Not sure about the years but around that time. The SVT Cobra are beautiful but I'd really like to have a Cobra R....'03 or so.

Re: the next Supercar??
 

well if we are talking Mustangs, I think the 94/95 Stangs are the ticket, last of the 5.0, Tremek 5gr, 8.8 posi, 4whl discs, great looking body, and if you have to look like a newer model trade tailights, they look good, drive really nice, and even stock move pretty well, add a Kenny Bell blower with a little 5 lb pulley and instant animal with a 5lb you can still run all the stock fuel system etc.

they are dirt cheap now 6/10k can buy a nice one, trick is to find one that has not been torn up though, I sold my Cobra big mistake but found a puff vert and cant get the wife out of it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: the next Supercar??
 

the Cobra R is a one bad machine, and will be highly coveted in 15 to 20 years. Very low production numbers, awsome handling, and a wicked drivetrain will make this car hard to touch for less than L-88 prices. The SVT Cobras are a viable option. They are loads of fun to drive and can easily be had in my price range.

However, I have an affinity for GM offerings. Thats part of why I'm selling the Coronet. It sat in a field for 24 years and rotted waiting on dad to get around to fixing it up before he finally agreed to give it to me. I spent a small fortune getting it back to driveable conditition. I like the Coronet, but I know the car too well. Where the man who bought it sees a reminder of his past, I see every single detail that I had to overlook to get the car roadworthy. I couldn't enjoy driving it for want of making it perfect. I will post some pics in a few days, I'm posting from work right now so it makes it difficult.

I would love to have a split bumper LT-1. But my wife wants me to stick with the money from the Coronet because we are getting ready to build a house and I am expecting a daughter in three weeks.

I found a 69 T/A I liked. I'm going to look at it this weekend. I'll post pics.

Re: the next Supercar??
 

A real '69 TA for under $20k would be the find of the century I think, be very careful as there are many clones, tribute; whatever the catch phrase of the day is.
One car that is a real bargain; again just my opinion, is the chrome bumper C3 Corvette. Aside from the LT-1 equipped cars, they are real bargains and are beautiful. I can't imagine that they'll stay this affordable for long; as least I hope not as I just bought a '69 coupe myself last year.

Re: the next Supercar??
 

look for something you will be happy with,If you want a 1st gen camaro then you should buy it,there are plenty of em out there that 18k will buy,keep an eye out in your local papers and go to local cruise nights in your area,you might hear about someone who has a car they might be selling or ask around.I was at my local cruise night and overheard a conversation about a car this guy had,he said his neighbor had a chevelle sitting in his backyard for years,and it was an SS,so I got into the conversation and went to see this car,the owner was the original owner,it was a matching number car throughout,an original mulsanne blue color 71SS LS5 car,allthough it needed lots of work this is what it looks like today.picked it up for 5k and invested about 25k more but that did a frame off resto.Im sure you can find a really nice driver for what you have now.dont buy something you dont really want,buy what you will be happy with!!
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...1/P5050005.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...1/P4160003.jpg

Re: the next Supercar??
 

By the way Alss can testify to that story cause he looked at this car and PASSED IT UP!! HE HE HE, I didnt know that untill after I bought it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif So Bryan take your time,look around,do your homework on the car your looking for be it a camaro or whatever.you didnt say you liked chevelles but there are a lot of early chevelles out there at good prices also.The best part is the hunt, and the second best part is seeing the car you bought done and youself in the drivers seat!!

Re: the next Supercar??
 

Actually, I think Alss has a '69 Camaro that he might part with!

Re: the next Supercar??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think Alss has a '69 Camaro that he might part with!

[/ QUOTE ]
I spoke to Al and yes he still has the camaro!! Bryan you might like this one,its in good shape and in your price range.Calling Al. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: the next Supercar??
 

That Chevelle is sharp.

I have a bad habit of refering to Formula's as T/A's, a byproduct of most gen 3's being t/a's. I wish it was a T/A for the 17K asking price!

I'm thinking about buying a local 1970 Nova to hold me over. It's a roller with a straight body and decent paint and interior for $6500. My 327 would be a nice mill for that car and I have been jonesing for a rat motor for my truck.

Most everything I have read lately indicates a price correction in the muscle car arena. I tend to agree. I can't see how the market could possibly substain these prices for much longer. Not to mention that I still haven't heard definitively what powertrains are going to be offered in the next gen Camaro. I'm hoping for a high horsepower stripped down race prepped offering for less than 40k. I can dream can't I?

You all have been extremely helpful and I appreciate it. I haven't been involved in this hobby for long, but as a rule, the hot rod/ resto crowd are some of the most inclusive and down to earth people I have ever encountered as a group, and the members of this site are no exception. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ouguysrock.gif