auction 'buy backs'
 

I've heard that the about 40% of the cars sold at auction are bought back by the owners. How does this work when a bidder has acted in good faith and placed the winning bid? Do bidders sign an agreement allowing the owner to buy it back if it doesn't meet what they think it's worth? Is there compensation paid to the winning bidder? Does the seller pay the auction both the buyer & seller's cut? Also, what if the buyer feels the car he just won was misrepresented and wants to back out? Would he be forced to keep it?
Using John O's Gibb Nova for an example. If I were John, I'd want to buy it back, but if I were the winning bidder at 150K, I'd fight to keep it. Who wins? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

I believe technically you can not buy your car back, but you can have someone else buy it back for you. The commission you would pay would be both the buyer and sellers totaling 18%(I am sure some have negotiated that percent down a bit). Before we bash Craig or anyone else at BJ, the sellers knew the deal going in, also some/most are the same sellers who made obscene profit in past years. I believe a lot of people have learned a good lesson.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Steve,

If the seller, or his/her agent can buy the car back, just
make the damn auctions Reserve and stop the https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

It's like a parody of itself. The announcers stating,
"there goes that car off to a new owner - nudge nudge, wink wink.
Once again, more https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif Double https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

It works very simply: At Russo, the seller's contract states he may bid on his own car. And he will pay both commissions.
At B-J the contract specifically says the seller may NOT bid or buy back his own car. It is done anyway, but the seller still pays the commission. Most of the time the auctioneer has no clue who the bidders are. Is it all honest? Is it the used car business??

The number of buybacks very widely. No one can put a number on it. An incredibly small percentage of cars end up in litigation. You bid, you buy. AS IS is all over everything, so you do your homework and that's it. The auction company has nothing to do with it and is almost never involved in a car "return". It's not Wal-Mart.

Dave

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

I was told John Ohler did try to buy his car back and was told he could not. If you want to buy your car back you need to have someone you trust and someone that trusts you to bid on the car and buy it. Then he just sells it back to you. There is now way the auction house or anyone else can control that. That is where Barrett-Jackson is at now. All your nudge nudge wink wink comments are the BS.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

"you need to have someone you trust and someone that trusts you to bid on the car and buy it"

The above actions at BJ do more to tarnish this hobby or business than any fake build sheet,rebody, or trim tag sale on ebay could ever do. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif [ QUOTE ]
It works very simply: At Russo, the seller's contract states he may bid on his own car. And he will pay both commissions

[/ QUOTE ] How can this possibly be Legal, when 3 people went to jail a few months ago for bidding up a friends 75K painting on ebay ?????

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
.... If you want to buy your car back you need to have someone you trust and someone that trusts you to bid on the car and buy it. Then he just sells it back to you. There is now way the auction house or anyone else can control that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this sort of 'shill-bidding with a reserve'? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif I guess it could also be called an 'auction hedge'?

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was told John Ohler did try to buy his car back and was told he could not. If you want to buy your car back you need to have someone you trust and someone that trusts you to bid on the car and buy it. Then he just sells it back to you. There is now way the auction house or anyone else can control that. That is where Barrett-Jackson is at now. All your nudge nudge wink wink comments are the BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me if you are willing to gamble on the upside of putting your car out there are no reserve, you also have to make peace with the fact you may see a big down side. Chalk the loss up to price of enjoying the vehicle...I know of at least to "pairs" that sold WAY bleow owner expectation and what the owner had into them.

BTW- Charley, because I love you and because it's there: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

The only way around this problem is to put a buy it now on all the "auction" cars and if it doesnt sell right away take SEALED offers all at once . Ebay should follow suit. Everyone makes a bid and then at the end the bids are revealed, not during the auction. No jacking prices up artificially all along the way. If the seller had his friend throw the high bid in, fine he can pay 20% and get his car back.At least no one will suffer because of a false bid except the seller.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Man, i would want to watch 40 hours of that. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

If you simply want entertainment watch "the girls next door" on split screen while BJ is on https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif Then again there are 20 year old girls sitting on old guys laps on both shows https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you simply want entertainment watch "the girls next door" on split screen while BJ is on https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wife will not let me. Actually I did the spilt screen yesterday, NFL&B/J. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
........ Then again there are 20 year old girls sitting on old guys laps on both shows https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

At least one. Was that the man's wife and kids, or daughter and grandkids or ?

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

When you ask an old man who the 20 year is on his lap, they always say its a relative . It certain parts of the country, its actually true https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

I thought last year or the year before BJ offered the option to the owner to buy back their car(at the 8% seller and 8% buyer fees). That was when they first dropped the reserve cars from the main stage and it might have made some sellers feel better. I thought at the Rand/Workman auction the seller was allowed to have the auctioneer bid for him up to but not above the reserve. Either way, it's not a real auction scenario.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Lot of mess up's but overall the cars brought the REAL money. What should have John O car have brought? What it brought was GOOD money for a 396 Nova. What a Owner thinks it should bring has NOTHING to do what a car is REALLY WORTH. I said all along that their was going to be Hero's & Zero's this year..There was some steals but overall things fell were they should be. Really take a look at the cars that fell(pedigree?)you will see why !!!
Sorry John im not picking you out !! You got a great buy on the Hemi Cuda if it was a good car.
My client bought the Z16! Pretty car...

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was told John Ohler did try to buy his car back and was told he could not. If you want to buy your car back you need to have someone you trust and someone that trusts you to bid on the car and buy it. Then he just sells it back to you. There is now way the auction house or anyone else can control that. That is where Barrett-Jackson is at now. All your nudge nudge wink wink comments are the BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still not quite understanding how this auction buy back works. If you are not allowed to bid on your car as owner, and must have someone else bid, then aren't you on the hook for paying the entire bid amount, not just the 18% seller/buyer portion, but also the bid amount as well? Because if someone else bids (and they must have a bidders number) isn't that considered a legitimate buy? I'm still fuzzy on how this all pans out. Thanks for any clarification to this.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Yeah LS6, I have been wondering the same thing. Let's say you have $100 in your car and think it's worth $300 at auction, but the bidding stops at $200., so you buy it back. Now you have $300 (+ commissions) in your car. For what? So you can try to sell it somewhere else for the $300. you think it's worth??????? I must be missing something or just plain stupid. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Sorry to disagree Rich, but John's Nova was a lot more than just another 396 Nova. IMO these Gibb Nova's are some of the most collectable & underated Musclecars that one can own.
Only 50 were built, specifically for drag race compitetion, for Fred Gibb under COPO # 9738-the 1st time Chevy allowed this to be done. The documentation that exhists thru Helen Gibb is the best there is. Some Gibb Nova's even have the original mechanics inspection form with the POP imprint.
John's car was special in that it is the only Matadore Red Nova that is restored & even though other red one's are rumored to exhist, none have surfaced. There are only about 16 COPO Nova's that have been accounted for, although there are probably more out there. Also, my records reflect that about 31 out of the 50 were sold out of Fred's dealership, the others went thru a network of Chevy dealers. And, if John's car was sold from LaHarpe it's all the more special.
Wayne Bushey of NNN did the 2nd restoration on this particular Nova & I'll bet it was expensive. From what I've seen He did a great job on this car.
Congatulations to the new owner. I hope he realizes what a very special car he has bought.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

one problem with john bidding on his own car is that with a no reserve that would be considered bid shielding (artificially inflating the price)and that is illegal at most auctions the contract I signed said that I gave the auction company the right to bid up to my reserve amount but that I could not lower my reserve so what they do is pretend someone is bidding or have a few sharp looking bidders (well dresed with a wife or kid) and try to meet the reserve thats why you see the smart bidders want to get face to face with there competition, you may have also noticed quite a few back ups on quite a few bids they were what we call running the bidder you can bet that if I have a 200k car at no reserve im going to have my wife brother or friend there to make sure I dont loose 100k thats just smart at a no reserve auction the 10k in commisions is nothing compared to a 100k loss sometimes you win sometimes you loose just be prepared to play the game and thats exactly what it is!!

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Jude the car was sweeeet!! But just like the guy who called me with a 4 door Hemi car(red) and asked me for 1,000,000 and it sold for 400-500K. I guess he was unhappy it needed a lot more O's.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

My main complaint witnessing the BJ auction was that the announcers were not properly informed about the cars AND that they rush the cars across too fast. Face it, when you consign your car with them, they should act as your representative in the sale. The owners should be allowed to write up their car's bio & have it read to the buyers. Give each car a 1 minute description, then let the bidding begin. John, as well as others, got shortchanged IMO
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
they rush the cars across too fast. Face it, when you consign your car with them, they should act as your representative in the sale. The owners should be allowed to write up their car's bio & have it read to the buyers. Give each car a 1 minute description, then let the bidding begin

[/ QUOTE ] As Charley said they turned down 3000 cars. They probably should have turned down 4000 cars and did a better job of selling fewer cars for more money. The other issue is if you take 20 mach 1s instead of 30 mach 1s you will see better prices for those cars. Then again,they are only trying to make the most money and that means getting the most cars thru, they dont care about any one car or group of cars.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Posts: 52
Loc: Florida/ Montreal Re: Barrett Jackson..... [Re: markinnaples]
#248127 - 01/23/07 12:57 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



I too spent the weekend in Arizona.I spent wednesday and thursday at Barretts and Friday at RM and again Saterday at the circus/Barretts.Wed and Thurs nothing but junk period. Friday I got a lesson in Class and professionalism at RM and Saterday was incredible. First of all It seemeed like someone had called the used car hemi factory and placed the largest order in history for Hemi cars. I believe they ran 29 hemi cuda;s It looked like a clearence sale., but still I have to say for the 70;s hemi cuda;s the prices were very consistant and quite strong. Most of them sold for betwwen $240000 and $260000 plus the juice except for some 74 mile survivor that went for $500000 a 70 roadrunner coupe went for $210000 while a 70 roadrunner convert only brought $200000 a hemi 4-door brought $600000 being a one of three, which I thought was incredible later in the day is when things seemed to go South for our mossed prized 71 hemi cuda;s two went off'' not really the two of the best examples so it is really hard to gauge the market by these. A 4-speed $480000 and auto non build board plain jane ev2 $375000 plus the juice. In my opinion the worst thing is that they saved some of the best mopars for after ten oclock when nobody was left there so again impossible to gauge the market a Hemi Daytona and Superbird which they made the owner package $790000 plus.The one thing I can say is it was obvious something seemed to be going on with very fast hammering on some cars being sold and alot of odd retractions on bids on others that made you have to wonder who the bidders and buyers these cars were comming from and going too''In my opionion any one who didn;t do well here had only Barrett and themselves to blame.Anyone who would take there more than $200000 plus mopars and let these people run it a no reserve shows you don;t have enough respect in these cars yourself., and letting them run so many on you shows they have no respect for these cars or you as a client.The thing Barretts doesn;t get is the cars are the Stars not the Venue, and the TV they think they are what brings the prices and the people you and your cars have nothing to do with it. Steve Davis didn;t take his sun glasses off the whole day and night Saterday. I think He thinks He;s Steve McQeen'' Not Steve Davis. this is a going to be a very hard lesson for some of these guys who didn;t do well, but NEVER place a RARE and DESIRABLE MOPAR in SUCH a NO RESERVE CIRCUS like that again because you and Barretts Hurt the market the CARS and the reputation of RARE CAR COLLECTING in General By the Way RM SOLD the 71 Hemi Cuda convertible with reserve for 2.2 Million plus the juice On Friday. Barretts also sold a GTO RAM 1V Judge White and Black 4- speed very well documented but the owner who was honest with every one and said the car had been completely replaced from the cowl back by a dooner GTO Still sold for $117000 plus the juice

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still not quite understanding how this auction buy back works. If you are not allowed to bid on your car as owner, and must have someone else bid, then aren't you on the hook for paying the entire bid amount, not just the 18% seller/buyer portion, but also the bid amount as well? Because if someone else bids (and they must have a bidders number) isn't that considered a legitimate buy? I'm still fuzzy on how this all pans out. Thanks for any clarification to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're basically floating a check. If you "buy back" my car for me and win it at $110k, we've already worked it out so I loan you the $$ and you write a check to the auction co. for the $110k. In about 4 weeks a check comes in the mail for $90k ($100k sales price minus 10% commission). Net loss: $20k.

And by the way, buy backs have been going on forever! It was just extremely obvious this year. Auctions are a real game - if you are cautious and dilligent, there can be some real buys. If not, there's a good chance your paying too much for a questionable car. An illustration: years ago I was talking to the seller of a 67 SS/RS. It looked very nice. No docs. Question: "It's a real car?" Answer: "You'll have to figure that out for yourself" Buzzzzzzzzz. I just did.

Dave

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
My main complaint witnessing the BJ auction was that the announcers were not properly informed about the cars AND that they rush the cars across too fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

The announcers are merely reading the description supplied by the owners. Otherwise, I agree - I think some of the descriptions are bordering on fraudulent.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Dave,

Thank you for the "buy back" explanation, it makes sense how it works to me, now.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

The rules can vary from state to state, but most states have a similar provision in their Uniform Commercial Code to this provision in the Oklahoma Code regarding auctions.

"... (4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale."

Does the Barrett Jackson bidder agreement give notice that buyers may be bidding on their own cars?

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does the Barrett Jackson bidder agreement give notice that buyers may be bidding on their own cars?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. As stated before, the B-J seller contract specifically states that the seller may NOT bid on his car. Also as stated previously, this does not prevent the sellers friend or agent from bidding on the car and there is NO way to prevent this. If you bought and suspected it, collusion between the parties would be very hard to prove, I would think.

Dave

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you bought and suspected it, collusion between the parties would be very hard to prove

[/ QUOTE ] Im sure you can prove it when the "seller" has the car listed on ebay a week after the BJ auction, or if its a legit sale to a friend,money must change hands,appropriate income taxes filed etc. Im sure no one does that on a false sale. So it would be easy to track whats goping on if one really wanted to.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jude the car was sweeeet!! But just like the guy who called me with a 4 door Hemi car(red) and asked me for 1,000,000 and it sold for 400-500K. I guess he was unhappy it needed a lot more O's.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]sooooo, was this car a buyback? the winning bidder didn't look very happy that he was top dollar...

JH

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Thanks for the explanation. Now I know I'm just a dummy. I never figured that out. I'd better just stay away from auctions because I just don't know (or like) how they work. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

To me, the whole experience is more like looking for a wife by calling an escort service!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifVerne

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Speculative scenario:

I have a car I want to take to B-J. I feel it’s worth $100K, but since B-J no longer accepts Reserve cars, I submit it with no-reserve. I ship the car to Scottsdale and send my friend to watch over the car. I also pay his travel and registration fees. The car goes across the block and is bid to $85K. I’ve instructed my friend to ensure the car brings my price, and he does exactly that. NOW, I’m out the registration fees, travel expenses, 8 to 10% on both ends of the sale, and still have to get MY car back home. Rough figures; I’ve spent maybe $25 – 30K to bring my own car back home……. BUT, it now has the B-J mystique permanently attached to it.

To certain factions, it’s worth the time and expense for that mystique. Would I do that? Absolutely not; but that’s irrelevant because I couldn’t afford it even if I wanted to. Many people CAN afford to do this and if you think is isn’t done daily, you’re shamefully naïve.

Right or wrong, it comes down to dollars. B-J is in the auction business, although it’s rapidly becoming more of an entertainment industry. People will find a way to get past rules and regulations of any kind. B-J no doubt anticipated this when they made the decision to reject cars submitted with a reserve. Although I don’t personally agree with it, the bottom line is….they’re in business to make money and at the end of the day their percentage comes from ALL sales, no matter who buys or sells the cars.

I had heard that as many as 30% of the cars from the 2005 event were buy backs. Rumor or truth; it really doesn’t matter. I think it’s possible, but I really don’t care.

The past three years I’ve watched this event strictly as entertainment. The information given on the cars is rarely accurate, the color commentators are poorly educated on the history of many vehicles, and the prices fetched are an unrealistic barometer for real life values. But there are some cool cars crossing the stage and that’s what I watch.

The personal opinion of a humble Central Illinois nobody; the Barrett-Jackson show has become a Rich Boy’s Circus. Pass the popcorn.

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

"To me, the whole experience is more like looking for a wife by calling an escort service!"

Bingo, an outstanding analogy...

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explanation. Now I know I'm just a dummy. I never figured that out. I'd better just stay away from auctions because I just don't know (or like) how they work. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

To me, the whole experience is more like looking for a wife by calling an escort service!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

Verne,

Nothing wrong with a test drive - is there? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Steve

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explanation. Now I know I'm just a dummy. I never figured that out. I'd better just stay away from auctions because I just don't know (or like) how they work. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

To me, the whole experience is more like looking for a wife by calling an escort service!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

Verne,

Nothing wrong with a test drive - is there? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all......as long as it doesn't cost you the whole marriage. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

Guess it kind of depends what one is lookiong for in a wife. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Vintage or late model..foreign or domestic...fast..well constructed... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explanation. Now I know I'm just a dummy. I never figured that out. I'd better just stay away from auctions because I just don't know (or like) how they work. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

To me, the whole experience is more like looking for a wife by calling an escort service!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

Verne,

Nothing wrong with a test drive - is there? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]


I believe under one of the Man Laws there is a specifically defined attribute to look for when going for a test ride.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: auction 'buy backs'
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif I second the test ride Man Law, make it so !