What caused this?
 

Still can't get an answer as to what caused the harmonic balancer to split open like this. I think it was because the bolt loosened up, allowing it 'wobble'. When I dropped the clutch to spin the tires, the shock may have broken it open https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif Anyone ever see this b4?

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...p/Balancer.jpg

Re: What caused this?
 

if it broke like that on the complete keyway slot, you used a key that was incorrect or too tall, meaning the same thing... LOL

Re: What caused this?
 

Marlin, I believe metal fatigue. Happened to my 61 vette driving down 309 a few years back. Balancer came right off. Split/cracked at the key way. Called Pete, he said not to worry and I got another 283 balancer and put it on. The balancer was probably dampening the vibration in your motor as your monster tach was pushing on 9,000rpm's and cracked from fatigue. Maybe to many missed shifts on a 36 year old balancer.! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if it broke like that on the complete keyway slot, you used a key that was incorrect or too tall, meaning the same thing... LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm.... would the balancer slide onto the crank if the key was too 'tall'? I never really thought about it, but....

You might be right Sam, these are old parts so it could just be fatigue. I have your old balancer ready to install - I bought it from Pete after delivering it to him for ya! I must say, I have yet to miss a shift and completely bury the rpm's. I've never even tried to power-shift it, so I still pull my foot off the gas between gears. Ya have draw the line somewhere when it's the original drivetrain, no sense over-revv'ing it https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif It's seen 7500 rpms, but never 9000 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm.... would the balancer slide onto the crank if the key was too 'tall'? I never really thought about it, but....

[/ QUOTE ]actually, the balancer is a snug, virtually press fit so it should NEVER slide right on. I am on my third stock GM LT1 balancer on Mighty Mouse, but mine spins on the outer shell, I have now staked the last one, and it is holding up pretty good, granted I have been as high as 8,400 rpm, 8,000 plenty of times, and shift it at 7,200-7,400 so a stock balancer is NOT happy with my methods LOL I have broken 2 ATI balancers on my Buick like yours, and that was because they were too loose on the crank snout.

JH

Re: What caused this?
 

This may be the work of the dreaded two footed,frustrated,Pennsylvania garage gremlin. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif
.................................http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...enjaminYDR.jpg

Re: What caused this?
 

Was the bolt & washer loose when you found this??

Re: What caused this?
 

Staking the balancer. The outer ring and inter ring together, haven't you lost the reason for the balancer??

Re: What caused this?
 

I love that pic, we spent this past Sunday afternoon hand-sanding the rear diff. Can't beat the father-son time! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Kim,
Yes, the bolt was very loose when I limped it into the trailer at SCR9. Pete Gerling and I started looking at it, and noticed the slop in the belt. I unscrewed the bolt with my fingers, and the balancer nearly fell off. The key fell out onto the floor of the trailer. The key initially fit nice and tight when I installed it, but it was mangled pretty bad after the break. This was the original balancer for this engine, and fit very tight when installed. The replacement balancer also fits very tight - but I can only get it installed for about an inch. I need to finish cleaning up the keyway area with a small file, then I can install it completely.

I'm open to any advice! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

I have been as high as 8,400 rpm, 8,000 plenty of times, and shift it at 7,200-7,400 so a stock balancer is NOT happy with my methods LOL I have broken 2 ATI balancers on my Buick like yours, and that was because they were too loose on the crank snout. "QUOTE" Buizilla

The ATI balancers are made from "Junk" material that is easy to machine but does'nt hold up to any abuse at all...On ProCharger blown engines the ATI balancers can't take the belt tension and the hub elongates and loosens on the crankshaft..........The material they use is probably leaded stock (Easy to Machine) and has little yield and or Tensile strength........Whenever we run into this problem we make new inner hubs for the ATI balancers out of 4150 Pre-Hard material (28-32-Rc) and the problem never returns....Talked to the ATI Tech guys and they didn't know or care what their Hubs were made from or that they were failing under a little abuse........Imagine that

Ken

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I...we spent this past Sunday afternoon hand-sanding the rear diff. Can't beat the father-son time! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Magic stuff Marlin!!! .

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
~ Pete

Re: What caused this?
 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ters/BJGuy.jpg

I might as well get some use (mileage) out of my screen capture...don't you think? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

Is the crank snout chewed up any?? Any indents in the snout??

Re: What caused this?
 

No, the only issue with the crank is that the keyway is mushroomed a tiny bit at the edges. So, I plan to file that down, and reinstall the balancer.

Re: What caused this?
 

Put some loctite on the bolt threads and you should be OK.

Re: What caused this?
 

Marlin, get a threaded balancer puller tool when installing it the next time, if you don't already have one...

JH

Re: What caused this?
 

Good advice, I initially installed it via the center bolt. This time, I will purchase a balancer installer tool, and will use loctite on the threads. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

Use a 5 lb sledge and a piece of 2X4. Just tap it evenly! Come on! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

Been there, done that https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif I'd rather do it the 'civilized' way this time. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

That is civilized. We used to use a 10lb hammer! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif One shot and done.

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Best Answers - Chosen By Voters

...the new one will NOT slip right on...you have to put it on to the best of your ability...and then start hitting it with a soft hammer around the edges until it goes down a little bit. then, put the main bolt in, tighten to where it's tight, and then pound some more. the bolt's tension will help pull the balancer on, because pounding alone will take forever and hurt your arm. But, don't try to skip the pounding and just use the bolt, because there aren't enough threads on that bolt to pull the balancer in by itself until it's in some more.

Source(s):

The Mother Ship.



[/ QUOTE ]



[ QUOTE ]

Put a small dab of silicone in the key way of the balancer (oil can leak past key way) start the balancer then use a big dead-blow hammer or sledge hammer with an aluminum block(wood block)
Then pound away near the center. Install bolt/washer and torque it.

Source(s):

http://painintheexhaust.blogspot.com...

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue">Thanks to ... </font>

http://sg.yimg.com/i/sg/answers/sg_logo_ga.gif
<font color="red"> (&amp;) How to you install a harmonic balancer in a 5.0 ford engine??</font>

Re: What caused this?
 

yahoo singapore....hmmmmm
I'll have to write that down https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

Please, don't use a hammer to pound a harmonic damper in place. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

I've seen a damper split right down the snout while being pounded in place with a 5 lb mallet and a 2X4 block of wood.

If you plan on doing engine work with any frequency at all, a balancer puller/installation tool is well worth the investment.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Prof...s/66514pro.jpg

Before someone thinks about installing a damper with a hammer &amp; a block of wood, they should take into consideration how much damage a fragged damper could do if it decided to let go at 7K+ rpm.

Eric

Re: What caused this?
 

Not to mention the potential damage they are doing to the thrust washer. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
Rick

Re: What caused this?
 

"Brute strength,ignorance and vise-grips"......Companion tools of the hammer...otherwise known as.."BFH"


Steve

Re: What caused this?
 

Add a crowe bar to that mix! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

and of course a sawzall for easy removal of misinstalled parts! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK YOU HAVE TO USE A TOOL TO INSTALL A STOCK TYPE HARMONIC BALANCER, HA HA HA. WE BROKE (1) AFTERMARKET CHEAP PIONEER BRAND BALANCER BECAUSE OF A BURR ON THE CRANKSHAFT SNOUT IN YHE LAST 15 YEARS. GIVE ME A BREAK, YOU GUYS PROBABLY RUN AWAY FROM A PRESS WHEN ITS GOING TO POP OFF A BEARING OR SOMETHING. STOP READING THOSE MAGAZINES AND PICK UP A WRENCH. USE THE TOOL IF YOU LIKE OR HAVE A FLUID DAMPER, ETC.. BUT DON'T SIT THERE AND SAY THE BALANCER IS GOING TO BREAK IF YOU POUND IT ON. GO TO YOUR LOCAL ENGINE REBUILDER AND SEE HOW MANY TIMES THEY USE THE TOOL BESIDES TEARDOWN TO REMOVE IT.

Re: What caused this?
 

YEA! I love it. Where have you been hiding?? I wonder how Chevy installed them? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif with a hammer. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK YOU HAVE TO USE A TOOL TO INSTALL A STOCK TYPE HARMONIC BALANCER, HA HA HA. WE BROKE (1) AFTERMARKET CHEAP PIONEER BRAND BALANCER BECAUSE OF A BURR ON THE CRANKSHAFT SNOUT IN YHE LAST 15 YEARS. GIVE ME A BREAK, YOU GUYS PROBABLY RUN AWAY FROM A PRESS WHEN ITS GOING TO POP OFF A BEARING OR SOMETHING. STOP READING THOSE MAGAZINES AND PICK UP A WRENCH. USE THE TOOL IF YOU LIKE OR HAVE A FLUID DAMPER, ETC.. BUT DON'T SIT THERE AND SAY THE BALANCER IS GOING TO BREAK IF YOU POUND IT ON. GO TO YOUR LOCAL ENGINE REBUILDER AND SEE HOW MANY TIMES THEY USE THE TOOL BESIDES TEARDOWN TO REMOVE IT.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my first post... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif


Steve https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

I'm not one to mince words. If you use a hammer (big or small) to install a balancer, you are an IDIOT ! I don't care if you can pound on the balancer and the snout of the crank all day long with a hatchet and have it not break. You are still compromising the integrity of the thrust bearing in the engine. As was said before, the balancer should go over the snout snug and require a little ass to seat properly against the slinger/lower timing gear. If it slips right on Marlin, get you's self another balancer. I think that FluidDamper makes a stock-like Chev balancer that would be the ticket. NOW ... with all that said. If it did go on originally with a snug fit, then the question becomes .... "What was the root cause of it getting loose ?" If you have an engine balance issue, it could be the cause for the balancer getting goofed up (technical term). I've NEVER used Loctite on a balancer bolt and have never had one come loose. Just a thought ......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: What caused this?
 

Thanks for the reply Casey, I ordered an installer tool - no need to use the BFH. I believe the rca is a bolt that lossened up, I don't believe I have an engine balance issue. I had the engine balanced by the machine shop, including the flywheel and pressure plate. Another deuce owner also found a loose balancer bolt after racing, so we are both using loctite this time around.

I spent about 4 hours over the holidays cleaning up the crank snout, there was some slight galling from the old balancer. I finished it up with some 600 grit paper, looks nice.

The replacement balancer fits snug when pressed on by hand, but obviously it's only about a 1/4" installed. I'm awaiting the installer tool, then I'll know for sure how things have worked out. I will change the oil, and break open the filter to see how it looks.

Re: What caused this?
 

Probably not great on the threads with an air tool but I always used an impact gun to draw them in...a 1/2 drive ratchet or johnny-bar if no air available. .
Had a few fail that spun between the inner/outer but can't recall any ever coming loose? .

Considering possible failure results, whatever the installation method it's probably not a bad idea to check and confirm periodically? .

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: What caused this?
 

This is always a area of concern on my 68 327 L-30...In 68 the L-30 uses a pressed on balancer with NO bolt..The crank is not even drilled for one...Kind of scary on the top end..I guess I'll know when it decides to part with the crank... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif


Steve

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is always a area of concern on my 68 327 L-30...In 68 the L-30 uses a pressed on balancer with NO bolt..The crank is not even drilled for one...Kind of scary on the top end..I guess I'll know when it decides to part with the crank... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif


Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue">I have 3 early 327 cranks. I have drilled &amp; tapped all of them.
I would never take the chance after all these years
of having it launch through the radiator, tires, hood, firewall, etc. @ 8000+ rpm. </font>

Re: What caused this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is always a area of concern on my 68 327 L-30...In 68 the L-30 uses a pressed on balancer with NO bolt..The crank is not even drilled for one...Kind of scary on the top end..I guess I'll know when it decides to part with the crank... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif


Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue">I have 3 early 327 cranks. I have drilled &amp; tapped all of them.
I would never take the chance after all these years
of having it launch through the radiator, tires, hood, firewall, etc. @ 8000+ rpm. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE SOMETHING COMING LOOSE AT SPEED. STILL A TEENAGER, I MUST'VE HURRIED THROUGH AN ENGINE SWAP A WEEK EARLIER WITHOUT COMPLETELY TIGHTENING THE RADIATOR. SATURDAY NIGHT ON OCEAN PARKWAY AT ABOUT 75MPH, MY 65 IMPALA SS VERT 4SPD LAUNCHED THE RADIATOR INTO THE FAN, IT WAS JUST A FIZZING SOUND, LIKE TIN CANS IN A BLENDER. COULDNT SEE THE CAR BEHIND ME, NOTHING BUT STEAM ASTERN.
SINCE I WAS ON THE PARKWAY, I COULD NOT USE MY OWN WRECKER AND PAID TWICE AS MUCH FOR THE TOW AS THE REPLACEMENT RADIATOR.
I ALWAYS CHECK MY NUTS (AT LEAST) TWICE NOW. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif