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Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Alright, this is convoluted so I will leave out some details to keep it short. Some of you may remember that I have GMMG #51 and had Lamar Walden (original owner of the 69 ZL1) but a hot C5R 427, 609 RWHP, solid roller, Moser 4:10, etc. I have a small fortune in this car and am at this point tired of messing with it.
The guys who built many of these cars Ron Mowen and Mike Callahan have opened a shop within 4 miles of my house. These guys know these LS series engines and late model cars inside and out and I trust them. Keep in mind I have a Dick Harrell, 475hp, A4 on the way. I will not get carried away and take the fun out of this car. I learn slowly but surely. The 3 of us have decided to put the LS6 that came out of #51 back in it rather than in the DH car. Pull all the drive train out of #51 and make it like it was delivered, a phase one ZL1. We have a buyer at $75K. We will just use the LS6 that comes as a crate engine for the DH as GMMG originally intended, plus a few mild mods like cam, headers, stall converter and that's about it. I will then have more than $50k worth of new (650 miles) running gear and engine (rare 090 race heads) to sell or put on my 02 Z06, which would eliminate the embarrassingly infuriating humiliation of trying to deal with Chev. dealers on a new Z06. I am not capable of making this decision. Does this make sense to anyone? Anyone have a better idea? Remember part of the motivation for this is the fact that I have far too much money in the #51 ZL1 GMMG car to make selling it as-is viable. Years from now I think it's value will be up there but that does not matter to me right now. |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
Un-modifying #51 and keeping the high- $$$$ modified drivetrain makes perfect sense to me. The rest seems OK too.
TOM |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
If it were mine I would return the # 51 car back to GMMG deilvered config and keep it,sell the 02Z06 and that drive line and wait till the Blue devil thingy is announced and pick up a low mile 06Z in the high 50k range when they drop.Mike is the man and I wish he and Ron the best with Vengance Motorsports.
BTW is that the only A4 DH? |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Automatic trans. Dick Harrell....and they call me stoopid! J/K of course.....or was I?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Hey Ray, Some days your the pigeon and some days your the statue. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Today I am what the pigeon drops. Oh well, there is always tomorrow. I can't wait.
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Kim, it's more like "Some days you're the butterfly, and some days you're the windshield". https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Is this ironic or just what? Where are all the intelligent guys that can give me some good solid advice here? I need help. I'm begging!! Just kidding again....you guys are all Bill Gates equals in my book! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif
So, is the consensus here that having the original owner of #51 build this #51 as a 69 retro type 427 but with all modern goodies was an idiotic idea that will cost me a cool $50k when all is said and done. $50 freaking K you say. Remember I went from NA to SC back to NA and have paid dearly for my indecisiveness. Dearly! Did I mention that the C5R will fit nicely in the 02 Z06? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Take your BALLS out of your purse AND DO WANT WANT!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif It's your call cool, huh!!
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
I need advise from intelligent, mature grown-ups. Otherwise I will do something stupid again!
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
I would take the S/C stuff out of the #51 car, rework the internals on that C5R engine, make it a fire breathing 427-454 something, do 550-600RWHP, and keep the #51 car. Since the money already is spent,
You would then have an extremely fun 6 speed car, and definetively still a very fast one too, NEW |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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I need advise from intelligent, mature grown-ups. [/ QUOTE ] You're clearly in the wrong place. Move along, nothing to see here. http://web.tiscali.it/senzasoldi/imm.../cop_medio.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
New - part of my losses on this car will come from the fact that I have gone from NA to SC now back to NA. So the blower stuff is already out. It is putting 609 to the rear wheels now through a Moser 4:11, so it's got the power. I believe after a few tweaks and tune it will be closer to 650+ RWHP.
Chances are though, we will sell the drive train, Center Force dual disk clutch, racing drive shaft and all as a unit or if necessary piece meal it. I am leaning toward keeping the C5R engine because I know it's built right and it has very rare 090 C5R heads. |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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New - part of my losses on this car will come from the fact that I have gone from NA to SC now back to NA. So the blower stuff is already out. It is putting 609 to the rear wheels now through a Moser 4:11, so it's got the power. I believe after a few tweaks and tune it will be closer to 650+ RWHP. Chances are though, we will sell the drive train, Center Force dual disk clutch, racing drive shaft and all as a unit or if necessary piece meal it. I am leaning toward keeping the C5R engine because I know it's built right and it has very rare 090 C5R heads. [/ QUOTE ] I dont know, i know you have had much work with this car, but damn wouldnt it be cool with that bad a** engine in it, use the DH car as a cruiser, and the #51 as a thing you take out, when you need to relief some pressure. NEW |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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I dont know, i know you have had much work with this car, but damn wouldnt it be cool with that bad a** engine in it, use the DH car as a cruiser, and the #51 as a thing you take out, when you need to relief some pressure. NEW [/ QUOTE ] Im with New on this one... The DH car is cool but people will see you coming the ZL1 is sorta a sleeper except the loud poor idle and when someone wants to race you throw down some s--t... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
That's the way I'm leaning. But, selling the GMMG car for $75K with the original running gear in it while keeping all the good expensive stuff is attractive too.
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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That's the way I'm leaning. But, selling the GMMG car for $75K with the original running gear in it while keeping all the good expensive stuff is attractive too. [/ QUOTE ] Hey, dont sell it ,or change it before wešve done a match race... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif NEW |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
This would be the way I would go. Sell the car stock a keep the parts!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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We have a buyer at $75K. [/ QUOTE ] I would jump all over that.Put it back to stock and let it rip. |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
Hold on a second there New. We will race if I put the SC back on....where the heck were you...wait another second, aren't you in Norway? OK, let's meet up half way...NYC.
If I'm comfortable that the 75 is a done deal I'm leaning that way. But after talking to Mike today I kind of want them to put the finishing touches on the car and see if my attitude toward it changes. He thinks a different intake, TB and tune might get us close to 675 RWHP. BTW - I'm really getting confused!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
Mike knows his stuff on the LS1s. You'll like that Dick Harrel car. 475 hp and a hard hitting converter will make you https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif He did a h/c package to my friends 01 WS6 a while back, and the car had a 3.73 gear and a 3800 stall and all I can say is https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif I am going to let his shop put a cam and a stall in my SS when I save up the funds to get it done.
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
Mike and Ron have given me and my LSx engines reason to live! And they are less than 5 miles from my house. Going to see them right now and talk about the options. BTW - they will have their new dyno installed Mon. and Tues.
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
How did this go from a question about what to do with your car to a cemmercial for some guys ? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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How did this go from a question about what to do with your car to a cemmercial for some guys ? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif [/ QUOTE ] Because car nuts/guys tend to get a bit carried away... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif NEW |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
Belair my friend, you have no idea how great it is to live 5 min. from a knowledgeable speed shop. Hell, it beats having a well endowed female exhibitionist neighbor. That's my next fantasy!
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
The great 1,000HP adventure will come to an end. Ron and Mike will have the car back to as-was condition within a week and sold within a week or two. Oh well. It had potential but was not to be.
Might just pull the solid lifter roller and put this engine in the 02 Z06. 650 to the rear wheels should take care of any international match race needs! (You listening New?) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
You are confusing me. You are saying you are selling the Walden modified ZL1 with the big engine in it ?
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
I think the title to this thread is profound https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
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You are confusing me. You are saying you are selling the Walden modified ZL1 with the big engine in it? [/ QUOTE ] No, I think he is returning the ZL-1 to stock and selling it. Then considering putting the Walden engine in the '02 Z06. Hey, it's only money. |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guy
COPO got it. Of course all things are subject to change. From what I've seen lately I think you can build a '55 Chev. with virtually all new parts. Body, frame, etc. then just add the LWA 427, Moser, Centerforce, Kooks etc. and have at it!
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
First, I don't have a purse...it's one of those toney European waist type deals!
Alright, listen to this U-turn. My next door neighbor, who is a high end car broker, shockingly found a buyer for this car at a good price. Shocker! Long story real short....he had the car dynoed, locally, and instead of 620 RWHP the solid roller, C5R 427, 090 heads etc. is putting down 425. The buyer's tester did not touch the tune. He found 38 degrees of time and a fuel mix ratio and trims that were way out of whack. He thinks the blower cam and measly 9 to one compression are still in the car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif Big problem for idiot/sucker boy now! What the hell will I find next?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Are you saying Walden told you it made 620 rwhp but the buyer says it really makes 425 rwhp ?
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
[ QUOTE ]
First, I don't have a purse...it's one of those toney European waist type deals! Alright, listen to this U-turn. My next door neighbor, who is a high end car broker, shockingly found a buyer for this car at a good price. Shocker! Long story real short....he had the car dynoed, locally, and instead of 620 RWHP the solid roller, C5R 427, 090 heads etc. is putting down 425. The buyer's tester did not touch the tune. He found 38 degrees of time and a fuel mix ratio and trims that were way out of whack. He thinks the blower cam and measly 9 to one compression are still in the car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif Big problem for idiot/sucker boy now! What the hell will I find next?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif [/ QUOTE ] Seriously? are you kidding? Or am i misunderstanding,? NEW |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
That is the way it appears right now. I have the graph. Of course there may be an explanation and I hope there is. I saw the car make 575RWHP before we decided to go FI. I am going to have the car taken to another shop and see if their conclusions are the same. If so, I hope there is a reasonable explanation.
At this point the buyer, who really wants this car, is losing patience and so am I. Five years and $100k (engine and suspension plus a few order changes) for a car that won't run properly and has lost almost 200HP???? Let's hope there is a simple explanation and solution. |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
[ QUOTE ]
That is the way it appears right now. I have the graph. Of course there may be an explanation and I hope there is. I saw the car make 575RWHP before we decided to go FI. I am going to have the car taken to another shop and see if their conclusions are the same. If so, I hope there is a reasonable explanation. At this point the buyer, who really wants this car, is losing patience and so am I. Five years and $100k (engine and suspension plus a few order changes) for a car that won't run properly and has lost almost 200HP???? Let's hope there is a simple explanation and solution. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe the Cam is going away.........????? Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
You also need to make sure the pulls were done in the same gear as the other pulss and hopefully on the same type of dyno...something is way wrong...
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Both were DynoJets and performed by competent people. The original cam was a hyd. roller. When we went with the SC we went with a solid roller. The solid roller (blower cam) couldn't have more than 2-300 miles on it.
It is looking like the blower cam is still in the car and the comp. ratio is low. I hope I'm wrong because I can't imagine how that could happen and/or how LWA could come up with a 600+ RWHP graph with that set up. Also unusual is the fact that the speedometer is 20%+ fast as it was before the SC was removed. Like I posted earlier (it disappeared into cyberspace) I give my friends EVERY benefit of the doubt but if the wool has been pulled over my eyes the s*** will hit the fan. $100,000.00 worth, or more! |
Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Have you talked to Lamar about it ? I would think that is the first person you should have asked
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Re: Idiot Boy needs input from intelligent car guys!
Forgive me if I missed something in the thread,but i'm curious as to why you elected to have an LWA race case put in a GMMG ZL1 car instead of just opting for their phase III in house? Mike will be the first to tell you he has blown up more of those than anybody,lol
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