Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Seems like quite a few COPO Cars being put on the block. Chevelle/Camaro and a few L78 Camaros as well as a L89 Camaro and a 68 L89 Chevelle!!!! Including this Red LS6
http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions...D=CH1006-41844


http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions...TION_ID=CH1006

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

This baby blue 69 Z-28 was on Ebay not too long ago.

http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions...06-41987at.jpg

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

1 Copo with ed c docs and 1 gm canada. I wonder if anything else, inc the L78 cars have and docs? One of the others says "copo engine" which makes you wonder?

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Man, Mecum sure do get the Muscle out to their auctions. Those Pontiac Super Duty cars sure got my attention.

Still a lot of "flipping" going on as some of those machines have changed hands earlier this year. I would sure like to see more people just enjoying them https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I want to ask a question without causing no hard feelings. So here it goes. What do all you baby boomers think will happen to the hobbie in 10 years or so. I am 31 and in 10 years I can't see myself buying a 100+k muscle car. I love the hobbie but will the demand still be around. I think that is why there is so much flipping going on. People are starting to unload there investments.

Jason

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Good comment Jason. Some of us are waiting on the sideline for the credit line interest going thru the roof and people dumping their cars.
John.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Jason, I am 28 years old and already did own a supercar. I personally believe that it will be more like 20 years before we see a possible "decline" in interest in these cars. I personally do not know a single person (outside of this website) near or even close to my age group that would spend $100K on any old car. I personally wouldn't do it myself. That is why I say I will never own a supercar again (at least in the next 20 years that is! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif)

I think that the guys my age that like muscle cars would rather have a cool AFFORDABLE Chevelle, Camaro, or Nova. In my experience they are not that interested in #'s, broach marks, whether it has spiral shocks, or the "correct" chalk marks on the firewall. I believe that they are more concerned with a good looking great running American Muscle Car.

Most of you guys forget that most of these cars are "niche" vehicles and are mostly out of reach or just don't appeal to the masses. If they did I guess that there would have been more built. To prove this look at the membership of this website for the purpose of general interest at almost 3800 members as compared to LS1tech.com at almost 71,000!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE these cars. They are definitely an acquired taste. That is why I am here as well as everyone else I assume. The moments that I had in my supercar will never be duplicated or forgotten as long as I have breath in my lungs. If everyone could be so fortunate.....

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

36 year old self professed car nut here. Most of my friends would not know a 69 Chevelle from a Camaro! While I do love the old muscle and happen to have a restored 74 Jeep CJ5 in the garage I would rather pay 6 figures for an exotic than a muscle car. 20 years sounds about right for the muscle car craze. Sad, how it has been somewhat transformed from a true collector car lovers hobby to being motivated by profits and values. (Just for the record...I am all for everyone doing well and striking gold in their garage!!)

(Very sorry for aiding and abetting the hijacking of this thread!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif)

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

No one really knows what the future will bring and hopefully there will be enough interest with today's youth to keep the supercars and muscle cars running forever.
I do have to admit however after reading the question that was asked on this chevelle steering box posted on ebay I am worried.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-69-70-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

IMHO that the very best cars of their kind will always bring huge dollars. Look at the pre war classics while overall interest has decreased the very best of the breed still commands huge dollars, my guess is that the same will hold true for Musclecars and Corvettes.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

No man, you're wrong... There are waaay too many musclecars available to sustain current prices. The difference between the musclecars and the pre-wars is that only the very precious pre-wars survived. They either became cans, ammunition, or are/were hotrods. There are no others left. So, the market is governed by limited supply, and the price moves with inflation. Also notice that very few pre-wars are driven, and guess why-- Because the generation of enthusiasts that saw those cars as "the good 'ol days" is slowly vanishing.

The musclecar hobby is eating itself, and it's because young people aren't interested-- Today's cars do everything so much better. As stated earlier, I don't know anyone else in my age group that cares about old cars, especially as life gets more complex. Combine this with stupid prices (some clown on CraigsList wants $65K for a '67 Chevelle SS 396/325; I was just killing time with a search...) for a car that is virtually un-driveable and out-performed by NA 4-cylinders. And well, you know how that goes...

I drove a new GTI this weekend, and at less than $25K, you'd need to be made of money to pass something like that up for a '66 GTO, etc... The thing is a rocket, and oh so much fun to drive. And, that's just one car from one manufacturer-- There are lots of great offerings out there.

I also am all for someone striking gold in the garage, and I also love the stuff that I grew up bashing my knuckles on. But a bunch of guys trading money with each other because the kids are in college and the equity line isn't tapped out yet has driven the market into an area where the kids today have been forced elsewhere. Seeing the cars flip is because the guy that buys that 1st gen Z/28 isn't 25; he drives it once, the wife won't even get in it. He figures out that it's miserable to drive compared to the Infiniti, and dumps it at the end of the summer. I know because I lived it. Look, it's like this-- You can go to a cowboy bar and ride the mechanical bull for cheap-- Who wants to spend $50K - $whatever for the the equivalent?

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Interesting posts to say the least. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Patrick

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

OK,
But other then the few and far with rich daddy's, teenagers have NEVER been able to afford the latest muscle/sports cars.

We all (most of us) drooled over the cars we could never attain as teenagers. Mine was the 1980 Z-28. Worked and worked all summer (1982) and saved up a whopping $400.00. Could not even find a base 77-80 camaro anywhere near that.

Saw an ad in the paper for a camaro for 450.00, went to look at it with my dad and uncle. It was a puke green 69, 3 speed manual, 307 car. Guy went down to 425.00, Uncle lent me 25$ and away I went. That started a love affair with the first gens, that will probably last my whole life.

Point is, kids have been given more these days, but they still mostly cannot afford the latest and greatest, most popular cars. They drool over them, and one day, when they are successful enough, if they stay "car guys", will probably buy what they could not afford as teenagers.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Good cars (known and well documented) will always demand good money. I dont think you will see Yenko's, COPO's, LS6's, L78's or anything else of the same go down in price our at least in my life time. Im 30 years old so Im in the younger crowd and I can say Ive got friends my age that own rare good cars and dont bat an eye at spending 50k for a fun old car. 50k really isnt alot of money these days when you think about it and the up side is if you keep the car in good condition you can pretty much drive it for free by selling it for the same money a couple years down the road. Plenty of people in our age group have money and like the neat toys or stuff that know one else has.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I agree with Quick about the "good cars"...and I'm 30 myself, and see the majority of the newer refined cars simply as *quick transportation*...they've completely engineered the soul out of the majority of cars these days.

midas: you're comparing a GTI with a '66 GTO? That GTI couldn't hold the jock of a GTO in the personality department...cars shouldn't be all about miles per gallon, or hands off reliability, or dead quiet plastic interiors...if they are, then you're not talking about a car, you're talking about transportation. Real cars are about a "feeling", a feeling that very, very few cars made within the last 25 years are gonna give you...granted, there are exceptions to every rule, and this is just a brief opinion! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

With all the drivers helping gizmos in new cars it won't be long that new drivers won't be able to drive an "old" car!

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

New cars are fun to drive and handle great but I rather be in an Old Camaro going 30mph and punching it and having the rear end slide sideway because your smoking the tires so bad "vs" a new car were you would get hook up and go. To me there is way more of a thrill in an old car and definately the feel of RAW Power which no new car can come close to giving.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I totally agree with the $50K car comments. Affordable muscle cars will always be in demand. The thing that I find hard to imagine is that there will be groups fighting to pay $300k-$1Mill for cars like these rare Mopars, ZL1's, etc. I also find it difficult to imagine people paying $100K for more "common" cars like 69 Z28's and LS6 Chevelles in the distant future.

The people that want love and be willing to pay for these cars will be the people that say "my dad or uncle used to have one of these" and they had some good memories in them. Think about how many guys in there 30's want a pre war classic like a Cord or Auburn. Some of those may be worth 1 million to a 65 year old guy but to someone like me I would have a hard time paying $30K for one.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I was dragged into this debate,old vs.new,about a month ago at a local cruise in......It was a heated discussion.I finally said what the hell do you drive anyway? It turned out to be a basic econ shoebox...He didn't even have a dog in the race.......My point is,if you have to explain an old car...They will never understand it! You have to live it & feel it....They still may never get it....Maybe we are the idiots... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif


Steve https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe we are the idiots...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, we are the guys who are having a great time with our old musclecars. That clown with the econo-box is just another one of those wanna-be loud-mouths so common at car shows, races, cruise-ins, auto parts stores, and especially on the Internet. Don't waste your breath on them--it's just like pi$$ing into the wind.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Sorry my lame attempt at sarcasim...LOL....I just get sick and tired of BMW this and that along with every other modern supercar..... not for me...Go preach to someone who cares.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Steve https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

chevy454:

Everyone is entitled to opinions, and I think what you're talking about-- "soul" should not be substituted for drum-brake, rubber-band feel, "hold on to the reins tight" driving feel. Once again, just my opinion.

When I was a kid with a job and not much else to worry about (1985 - 1990), these same cars that are trading for large coin were around and were affordable, albeit many were not in great shape. My '80 Z (which I paid $1700 for in 1987; needed paint) was a great example-- A fun car that had every available option, but the last true old car I owned. I went to college, and sold the Z.

I hate to say it, but the bottom line is that, in reality, the cars that are trading for inflated prices were not the most sophisticated cars available then... See this link to know what I mean:

http://www.oldsmobility.com/roadtestmag_june67.htm

Welcome the entrance of the Resto-Mod craze. For originals, the brakes/suspension were less-than-adequate, weight balance way off, bad steering, uncomfortable seats, no A/C, etc, etc... But lots of fun in a straight line, and really not as fast as the rose-colored glasses say. What's the point of this, you may ask? Well, it's that new cars do all of the things old cars don't do well very well, so how do you justify paying $60K for early Chevy muscle (without even thinking about the cloning aspect)? I can't. A few years ago I wanted a '69 Z so bad that I could taste it, and one ride in an expensive rattle-trap changed my mind for me-- Made me think about how good of a car my '86 Mustang GT was (God rest its soul)...

The statement that I made is along those lines. I love the old stuff, but they are waaaay overpriced for what is there, causing major lack of interest in the non-blue hair consumer segment. And the person that can afford the price of admission and garaging forgets that these cars are sub-par to drive until he/she gets in one, and then it's all over-- They come back around for sale with only a few additional clicks on the odo because in reality, they're unpleasant to drive. And as complicated as life is these days, who has time to set lash, or troubleshoot a Holley on a regular basis? All of this is probably why most of the people that I know could care less about a 35 year old car. I don't know... I'm just calling it like I see it.

So, when are the prices going down so I can get that '69 Z?

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

The limited production, high performance cars will always hold their value at the top of the heap. But it still comes down to personal preference that motivates a lot of people to buy what they want. And in today's economy there are plenty of people who are capable of buying what they want regardless of the cost. As for new vs old, I like em all and I keep going back and forth. The 4th gen Camaros/Firebirds offer a ton of performance and handling/braking for an affordable cost. The older cars give you that feeling of raw power. The pro-touring cars give you the combination of old looks with modern performance. I'll take 1 of each! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
A few years ago I wanted a '69 Z so bad that I could taste it, and one ride in an expensive rattle-trap changed my mind for me

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. Come take a ride in mine. I'll give you a $10 bill everytime you hear a rattle out of my car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[ QUOTE ]
And as complicated as life is these days, who has time to set lash, or troubleshoot a Holley on a regular basis? All of this is probably why most of the people that I know could care less about a 35 year old car. I don't know... I'm just calling it like I see it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like your better off then. I think any real car guy doesn't mind this and most would say it is therapy for them. I know it is for me.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Darren,

I'll take you up on your offer, but...

1. It must have chambered exhaust and 4:10's.
2. I get to drive.

* Edit: I don't mind setting lash, but I'm in the miniscule minority.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

... Whoops, I meant 4.10:1's...

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

1964 through 1971 was the era for Musclecars. All the major domestic makers were in on the game and some incredible machines were built over those 8 years. Barret-Jackson, Mecum and others show how much interest there is in these cars today. Go to Barnes and Noble and look at the magazine rack. Musclecar magazines everywhere.

The "Supercars" of that era will be popular for a long, long time. Why? Because the boomers grew up with them, they weren't built in large quantities and their cooler than cool. When I drive the Hemi-Challenger through town, traffic stops. Shake, rattle and roll and all! Nothing else compares.

Patrick

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I think that there is a very slight market adjustment happening right now and it has more to do with affordability and what someone is comfortable driving value-wise than anything else. I've been working on a number of potential purchases over the past few weeks and every person is selling for the same reason..."the car is just worth too much now for me to feel comfortable driving it around". I've been to a bunch of cruise nights this summer and there have been some neat cars out there, but where are all the COPO's, LS6's, and other higher dollar cars that I used to see regularly??? All tucked away in their garages I'm afraid. For me, $75K or so is my comfort zone for a muscle car that I will drive and it is getting tough to find anything really neat at that price any longer. I believe that many others feel the same way as my experience has been that the higher production number hi-po cars above $75K take a lot longer to sell these days (LS6, L78, Z-28 etc.).

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have 2 beaters listed in your sig! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Now that's just not nice - at least his 'beaters' actually run!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I want more rust! When is the last time you heard someone say that? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have 2 beaters listed in your sig! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Darren's getting into the "Spoiled Brat" zone https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

Hey listen its not "Spoiled Brat"!

It is "over extended". LOL!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want more rust! When is the last time you heard someone say that? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


how much more, got an address i can send it to https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I'm in the younger demographic, younger than most involved in this hobby of musclecars. Everyone I know in the same group likes these cars, but not interested in purchasing one or even learning a whole lot about them. This includes the concept of #s matching or low production figures. When I discuss the market of these cars, they shake their heads in disbelief. "That's crazy" is a common description.

If they were interested in the purchase of one of these cars, I would feel safe to say that they wouldnt be interested in a 6-figure perfect resto car, and surely wouldnt have it only to let it set in the garage which is where many of these cars end up.

dave

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now that's just not nice - at least his 'beaters' actually run!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey now, I just logged 100 miles on my 1970 L78 beater on Sunday going to a car show. Looks like I pulled down 12.5 mpg too! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/ooo.gif Poor car didn't like getting stuck in traffic on the way home though. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

That's still 50%. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the younger demographic, younger than most involved in this hobby of musclecars. Everyone I know in the same group likes these cars, but not interested in purchasing one or even learning a whole lot about them. This includes the concept of #s matching or low production figures. When I discuss the market of these cars, they shake their heads in disbelief. "That's crazy" is a common description.

If they were interested in the purchase of one of these cars, I would feel safe to say that they wouldnt be interested in a 6-figure perfect resto car, and surely wouldnt have it only to let it set in the garage which is where many of these cars end up.

dave

[/ QUOTE ]

The guys (28-35 years old) that I am friends with also love muscle cars and we all have multiple cars. Most of us have had them for a while, some since high school. The prices have gotten out of reach for all but the most fortunate, but then again that is what adds to the story of the cars, everyone remembers when the cars were around for cheap $$$.
Or we knew someone who drove one...etc.
Some of the more obscure or lesser known muscle cars will probably be the losers in all of this... the also rans.
The popular cars, the documented car, and the original cars will always have a following.

Think about it... the prewar cars with Mystique are the ones that still bring the big $$$...
It will be the same thing for the muscle cars, the ones that have Mystique or a large following those will be the ones that that will be collected in the future.

Re: Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere
 

I am71 years old and forteanite to own a1969 Yenko Camaro. No amount of money will buy this car. It is my living will to go to my son, and from him to my grand dauther. So I know that it will be in the familey for quite some time. So you see not all of us are in to this for the money. We also have 4 more 69 camaros, not for sale.