weird engine manufacture code
 

My 1968 427 biscayne has an unusual engine plant code.
It starts with "s" intead of "t".
I have the build sheet from GM Canada which confirms this.
I was under the impression that all big blocks were made in Tonawanda engine plant.
Were some big blocks assembled in Canada? Does "s" stand for St.Therese? Saginaw?
If it makes a difference my car was built in Canada.
Can anyone shed any light on this? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
Mark.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

If the Letter S is in your CON VIN on your engine stamping,that would stand for St. Louis assembly plant and be typical for a vehicle exported into Canada.
I've seen S used on components built at the Saginaw,Mi. plant before.
Where on your GM Canadian documents does it show this?..as I've yet to see George Z. relay any engine code manufacturer stampings.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Sounds like a very cool car....is it an L72 or L36? . And where are you in Canada? .

I take it the engine is original and the car is Oshawa or St. Therese built? .

Can you lay the whole engine code on us or a pic of the pad? .

Is the confirmation of engine code by GM Canada you're referring to a copy of the microfilm Vin-Shipping list? .
These are a page of about 40 Vins that show engine codes and options shipped w/ each Vin also what I believe George and the boys at GM Canada glean the information from to prepare the documents they send. .
I think they stopped giving these out as they show the key codes for all Vins on the page?. .
George is a really great guy and he may still be able to give a copy to a true enthusist or blank out the sensitive info from the pages....anyone documenting their car should ask him anyway? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Its an L36 4 spd car built in St.Therese.

I should have double checked things before I posted...because now that you guys made me re-check the docs, its engine code indeed starts with a "T", but the code ends with an "S". The engine is at the farm, so I can't double check the stamping, but the engine code on the docs is T12223S which seems odd to me that it would have a one digit engine code. Obviously the engine plant is Tonawanda, which now makes more sense.
I still don't understand the single "s" engine code.
maybe I'll have to wait until I get to the engine to verify that this code supplied by GM is complete.

And yes I did get the engine code confirmation with my GM Canada docs, although on other cars I have documented there has not always been.

The build date of the car was April 26, 1968.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Strange engine code but who knows what the Tonawanda crew was into 3 days before Christmas? . I think IE or IH would be correct? .
So did the Canada docs include a copy of the microfilm Vin-Shipping list or was the engine code noted on the standard page? .
Better check the pad to confirm what's really there as each time the info was transferred it could've been noted wrong? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Also noticed there is one extra digit in there..T12223S https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif
The only codes the 1968 L-36 Biscayne used were:
*IB w/TH400 Police
*IC w/3 speed Police
*IE & IH w/Manual
*IJ & IS w/TH400

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also noticed there is one extra digit in there..T12223S https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif
The only codes the 1968 L-36 Biscayne used were:
*IB w/TH400 Police
*IC w/3 speed Police
*IE & IH w/Manual
*IJ & IS w/TH400

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that is what I mean. Maybe the engine code on this engine is "3S". This still doesn't match the accepted GM codes for this engine in this car... I still can't find a reference anywhere to this engine code. When I last looked at the block (a while ago now) I'm pretty sure it said this same stamping, I wasn't too concerned except that it match, and Didn't pay much attention beyond the date portion at that time, maybe there is more stamping after that part?, but then there would be way to many digits, and this is the correct number of digits the way it stands...
I wonder if any ex-Tonawanda employees lurk here and might shed some light......

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I wonder.. could it not have been the assembly plant that hammered in the engine app. code? maybe the T1222 was on it when shipped to St. Therese from Tonawanda, and they added the 3S application code at Therese? The "S" could be for St.Therese, and the 3? maybe the 3rd engine used?? or 3 for the application or usage?
I asked George if he could elaborate on the odd engine number and he said he couldn't.
I can't imagine they had too many of these engines in the plant, as only 25 of these cars were built in Canada.
Does anyone else on the site have one of these cars? maybe thier engine number is similar...

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I have a '68 L35 engine coded 4T. It is a Chevelle 4 speed engine according to GM Oshawa. Looks like there might be more than one alphanumeric engine code.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Aha! we are on to something.
Now we need to discover who has a list of these alpha numeric secret codes.....

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

4T is known and a '68 Chevelle L35 396/325 manual. . 4U is also known and a '68 Chevelle L34 396/350 manual. .

I'll look tonite as I have an old Canadian book w/ some numeric codes I've never found elsewhere....just in case it's there?
I fixed a '63 Vette about 20 years ago that had a small block w/ 77 as the suffix....sure enough it was in the old book as a '67 Chevelle 283 so you never know?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

cool thanks

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Found the book last night but no go on the 3S suffix. . There's a few others I will post later as they're worth noting but are small block engines including L79's. .

I forgot to note yesterday that 4W is also known and is '68 Chevelle L34 Auto. .

Considering these known Mk1V numeric style suffixes are all for '68 cars (besides the numeric Marine ones) I think this 3S suffix may be something worth investigating further. .

Lastly I just had another thought, aren't the '68 Gibb Novas w/ the L78 M40 a unique suffix that's similar to this....I don't have it in front of me but isn't it a 3 something....anyone? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

E3 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

We need an individual who possibly worked at either GM Canada, or someone from Tonawanda plant if we are to find out more on the subject. Or, failing that, anyone else with a Canadian built 1968 427 Biscayne (or possibly impala ss 427)...I can't have the only one?

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

There must be a GM book with the engine codes as I have a page showing the E2, E3, and E4, amongst others. Perhaps GM was planning the L78 automatic for the Chevelle and Camaro as well.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I looked through the Chevy engine code pages of my Hollander manual today but found nothing in numerical suffixes either....didn't really expect anything as it's somewhat weak on these but thought it may be worth a whirl? .

I wonder if Geo Z. has access to anything that may shed some light on these? .

Fran Preve of Tonawanda plant may have something too? . I've spoken and messaged w/ him a few times over the years....anyone in contact w/ him lately? .

What other codes do you have Keith? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I asked George initially when I got my docs, because I thought the engine code seemed odd, and didn't match normally accepted codes for the model.
I have also emailed "GM Canada" to see if they have any literature, which I'm sure they do, the question will be if anyone is willing to take the time to look for me.
Somewhere, there is a list of engine codes for Canadian Chevrolets, there has to be, because something like that is always documented, and GM Canada obviously never throws out any documentation.
Also, I'm curious as to whether the whole engine code was stamped in at Tonawanda, or if further code stamping was done at assembly plant. The way I have always understood it, all the stamping of the origin, date, and code was done at the engine plant, and the vin part done at the assembly plant. This would maybe mean that someone who worked at Tonawanda might have some input, although since so few of these engines were built, they may have not noticed a few weird codes.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Keith you are correct I used to have a sheet showing all the E codes on it. There was a E3 , E4 ,E2. I think they were coded for Chevelles and camaros. In fact if you look at the parts list in Ed C's COPO book for the Nova's several part's are Chevelle and don't belong on a Nova.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I checked my stamping last night and it is "3S" on the block, so I guess I have the rarest 427 in existence at 1 of none. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Keep plugging away...something will turn up. .
A couple more thoughts, if an engine is bad a testing and there's no extra correct suffix engines at hand could this number be a plant replacement unit? . Weren't CE's only a parts or service replacement at the dealer level? .
And did you get a copy of the microfilm Vin-Shipping list w/ other cars shown? . If so are there any other L36 big cars on the page and what engine suffixes are they? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

No, they didn't give me a microfilm copy.
I wish they had, they don't like to do that anymore as has been stated before on this site for a couple of reasons.
Although, I think George knows I am an enthusiast and not a scammer, as I have ordered several documentation packages from him in the past, and talked on the phone and in emails.
Maybe I should email him again and see if I can get a microfilm page copy, although the chances are slim that there would be another L36 car on that page, unless they made them all in one batch, cause I believe they only made 25 or so in Canada.
I wonder if they have the same microfilm lists for cars built in Canada, or were they only listed that way if they were imported into Canada already built in the US?
I still haven't heard back from GM Canada email I sent, although my guess is they just forward it to George probably anyhow...

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Mark
Have you checked a Chevrolet Canadian Parts book for that 3S suffix code?
In the US versions,they always list the Engine-Trans.& Rearend suffix codes.
I have the 1970 Canadian version,but not the 1968.
I have seen them on the Bay recently,and I think a few on here may own a copy...just a thought,as this is something I would really like to see resolved.
Rick

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

No I haven't checked that yet.
I don't have a copy of the 1968 GM parts listing catalog.
I wonder if any dealerships would still have those books?

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Still looking for info.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gifIf anyone has a GM Canada parts book from the late 60's, That they can check for this code it would be appreciated.
I have emailed GM Canada again, but so far no information.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Update..
Now GM Canada says veh is too old to supply that information. (they don't want to look any more) Oh well, I just have to be content with the number being documented on the GM Canada build sheet docs I guess.

I have inquired with people who have GM parts books, and I gather that shows nothing.

Would have been nice to know why the odd number, but I guess it makes my car unique compared to all the other L36 cars in the world, so maybe thats a good thing.... a 1 of none engine in an already fairly rare car is a cool thing to have I guess.....
Thanks to all those who tried to help with this mystery!!
Mark.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I know of a '68 427 Pontiac with code T01113S

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know of a '68 427 Pontiac with code T01113S

[/ QUOTE ]

And it's an L36 too?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

YUP,L-36 and M-20

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Wow, so its a known code. Thats what my car is..an L36/M20. I wonder why the use of a different code than regularly used for L36/M20?..seems weird to make a code just for the sake of making a code.
Are there any peculiarities to your engine? I only have block, heads and intake and distributor so I still need to round up a carb and exhaust manifolds and smog stuff. also there is no gas tank in my car so I need to find that hard to get tank sender with two pipes. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
Mark.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I don´t know if this is off subject but in the early sixties the Canadian-built engines didn´t even have an ordinary suffix-code, just a number. I believe the pic I have attached is of the enginenumber, not the partial VIN. The partial VIN was not stamped on the pad on the engines I have seen.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Casting date. The casting # is 3849852.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

[ QUOTE ]
I checked my stamping last night and it is "3S" on the block, so I guess I have the rarest 427 in existence at 1 of none. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

These odd codes are very common on the canadian cars especially the full size for some reason.I have never been able to find a list to cross reference them like a IE or IH code but can assure you they were correct for some canadian cars.
Brothers 68 ss427 which has been documented by George has it's original born with engine which is stamped T01113T and it was a l-36 4spd. We also have in the pile somewhere a T01113S which we took out of a 68 pontiac 4spd.
Many of the canadian cars had these number /one letter codes but I don't know why.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I have seen some American built fullsize chevrolets with engine codes for 68 D2 and H3 and for 69, F2 and F3 and these were V8 engines. All were flint built engines with a V as the plant designation. I haven't been able to find anything on these codes in any of my books.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Very unusual. Interesting that the codes are different, I just can't help wondering why the factory would use a different code than regularly used....I wonder if the "3T" code was for close ratio trans, because we have two wide ratios known with "3S" designation?.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very unusual. Interesting that the codes are different, I just can't help wondering why the factory would use a different code than regularly used....I wonder if the "3T" code was for close ratio trans, because we have two wide ratios known with "3S" designation?.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it may have something to do with one came out of a impala and one out of a pontiac but I don't know. For what it is worth the 3T was a close ratio 4 speed.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

The car I mentioned is not mine,but is still with the original owner.Hey 3macs,tell me more about that '68 Pontiac.

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

I have a 427 that has an odd stamp as well. I could never really find any information on it. The general consensus seemed to be that it was a marine application or something like that. The engine is a low mileage 512 block, std everything, that has all the guts of an L-88. 7115 crank, 7/16 dimples, etc. I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but thought I would post a pic of it.

[image]http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmleonard/829916918/[/image]

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

Sorry guys, not that good with pics. Or just use this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmleonard/829916918/

Re: weird engine manufacture code
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys, not that good with pics. Or just use this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmleonard/829916918/

[/ QUOTE ]

Another interesting one for sure and not included in the regular 'known' Marine or Canadian suffix listings?.
Take note the Tonawanda build is 0325 so the suffix should be the '7BL' not the BL alone?.

On the other unknown suffixes, TAR6569 are you saying these Flint plant engines were Mk1V's or Small-Blocks as I always understood Tonawanda was the only source for MK1V's?.

As a side note on small blocks, don't forget Canadian-Hamilton built 65/66 Studebakers had McKinnon sourced SB Chevy engines after South Bend closed.. I forget if they're numerical or not but they occasionaly pop up as a loose SB..

In most Canadian numerical suffixes I recall seeing, the rest of the plant and build number is 'normal' and unlike Ander's example?.

As mentioned previously I have an old Canadian book (not a GM publication) that lists lots of the numerical suffixes but not the previous examples...have to look again for the recent additions?.

Nothing to do with it but interesting to note how Canadian assembly plants have a numerical designation too, unlike US plants which have a letter...Oshawa vehicles always had a number 1 in the Vin..

Again, anyone have recent contact info for ex Tonawanda plant Chevy guy Fran Preve?. I haven't spoken w/ him in a few years but he once told me he had saved what was left of internal documents when they were being tossed and may have some more info on these unknown suffixes?.

~ Pete
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif