250 mile Challenger T/A
 

250 original mile Mr Norm car...If the stories true what's this car gonna bring?

http://www.showyourauto.com/am/listings/l0125.html

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

cool overspray on the core support... neat!

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

lets play the guessing game:

325K

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets play the guessing game:

325K

[/ QUOTE ]

Original condition cars are awesome and I am a big fan. But, this car - particularly the interior has some grossly discolored panels and seat coverings that will be too distracting to command that kind of money. A good cleaning would go along way too. With that said: $185K!

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I think what you're seeing on the interior door panels and bucket seat shells, is the dye that mother mopar used to color the interiors. For some reason, chrysler would simply use a dye of the desired color, to make matching color door panels, consoles, ect.,ect. Back in the day, I owned several challengers with color matching interiors, the one that I remember the most, was a burnt orange interior that showed green everywhere that I rested my arms while sitting in the car. I assume that assy. line shortages or cost cutting measures were the reason.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

White interiors are tough to keep looking nice, even on low mile cars. You can get away with murder on an original black interior car, it just hides everything. I don't know if the pictures make the bleeding look worse than it is but it is noticeable.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

It's not bleeding, it is the plastic breaking down. The plastic technology of the day was not up to snuff when it came to the colored panels. The black panels last forever but the colors, especially the whites, turned into powder and crumbled away when exposed to sunlight for extended periods of time.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I would like to know why it only has 250 miles.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

250 miles and the thermostat housing leaks ..... bummer. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

250 miles is unbelieveable,and probably is

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

not really. there was a 67 fairlane 427 on barrett jackson a few years ago with 250 miles. just think, there were probally over a million factory musclecars built between 64-71. some are low mileage survivors, some are crushed.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

the fairlane at barrett was an old race car it had 600 miles on it ifiwas the red one
mr norm cars get all the money these days

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I don't know about the original miles. But I would much rather have an excellent survivor than a restored car. I am probably in the minority.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

They are out there! I know of a Blue w/ Black soft top 67 Camaro RS/SS 396 tucked away with 400 miles on it. Open the door and it smells like new!

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

A year and half later...the car sold for $150k...bidder set his max at $175k. After the car was featured in Mopar Collectors Guide, I was called with offers of $200k, warts and all.

~Patrick Krook

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

What a time capsule..... but they should have vacuumed the carpet

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lets play the guessing game:

325K

[/ QUOTE ]

Original condition cars are awesome and I am a big fan. But, this car - particularly the interior has some grossly discolored panels and seat coverings that will be too distracting to command that kind of money. A good cleaning would go along way too. With that said: $185K!

[/ QUOTE ]

What's my prize for being the closest? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I agree. 250 miles and there are stains on the trunk mat, dirty engone, aftermarket gauges.. In 250 miles? Don't think so, That was one weekends worth of driving back then .. no way.. I know a guy who bought a NEW 70 Torino SCJ and promptly disconnected the speedo... Fast forward to about 10 years ago when he sold it.. It 'showed' 12k miles... Guess what he got for it??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
250 miles is unbelieveable,and probably is

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

The stated 250 miles could very well be correct. Just because it was driven only 250 miles when new doesn't mean it was stored properly for the next 36 years. Who knows what sat in the trunk all those years. The plastic interior panels (especially white) in those cars were renowned for their ability to change color and turn into powder after a short amount of time in the sun. Talk about planned obsolescence.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I'm sorry, but I'm having a problem with understanding why this particular car is attractive to a buyer. I too can totally appreciate the patina and stories that an old car can tell, but this car has awful patina, and has no stories.

Well, I should say that the only stories it would have are probably not that interesting.

In my opinion, this is exactly the problem with vintage american iron built around 1970-- The materials that were used were so inferior/bad that when survivors are found, often the paint, and especially the interiors, are shot. When you find cars that were more expensive when new, their materials are not this deteriorated. Cadillac, and for the most part, low mileage survivor European cars (i.e.: Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche, and BMW) must have had significantly better materials and assembly processes, because I just don't see this "spontaneous decay" phenomenon with those cars.

Another example:

web page

I'm sorry, but someone is paying a premium for original paint that could have been done better by either my 90-year old Grandma, or 6-year old niece...
Just another example of the collector world not making much sense to me, I guess...

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

Speaking of disconnected speedometers, it was epidemic in the old days. Had to stretch out that warranty as much as possible you know. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif Now, with restored cars, it doesn't much matter whether the mileage is 80k or 180k miles.
We had an unrestored '67 Chevelle a few years ago. In the early '90s it was an unrestored class winner at a Super Chevy show. I saw it a couple of weeks ago and you would never know that the car has close to 100K miles on it. The interior is still mint. I don't believe that the car was ever left outside. You could spin the speedometer on that car back to 40K miles and no one would be the wiser.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

If the Z28 was such a survivor, then why did he paint the exhaust manifolds, paint the rear springs and axle (fluid tag suppose to be natural, not painted), and do a quicky respray on the engine????

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

Those are all very good questions. There's a poly bushing visible in the one photo, so the axle and springs were probably out of the car at some point. Maybe painted then...?

Maybe headers, replaced my manifolds? While they were in there, maybe they re-sprayed the motor? Once again, a case of who really knows...

I do know that the striping job appears to be a particularly bad one, even by Norwood stardards. Apparently they were applied on Friday-afternoon, post a 10-beer lunch, by the guys that usually install tail-lights.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

Wow on both cars! The T/A looks low mile, but if I had to guess, I'd peg it at 1500 to 3500 miles not the advertised 250. 250 miles is like 0. no wear at all, still I guess is possible, sometimes 0 miles in a less than perfect storage location can take its toll..aka the buried chrysler recently dug up.. Still cool though....The 72 Z is rare to begin with and a survivor no less. Look for that car to rise in value sharply over time.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

if you say the same lie over and over,eventually some moron with more money than sense will believe it.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

I called on the Z28 and it sounded like a nice car. I'll be in the area next week and wanted to take a look, but it sold. It had some issues, the guy wanted $38,000.
As far as originality and the factory flaws, I love them and I love the original cars. Could be an acquired taste, but when I drive my 18,000 mile '67 big block, you really go back in time.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. 250 miles and there are stains on the trunk mat, dirty engone, aftermarket gauges.. In 250 miles? Don't think so, That was one weekends worth of driving back then .. no way..

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Barry Washington (Challenger T/A Registar) went over the car with a fine tooth comb over several days and agreed that the mileage is genuine. I can say that the storage of the vehicle was less than ideal (surviving daughter stored the car most it's life after dad passed)...the documentation on the car is undisuptable, backing up the odometer. Other things, like cardboard tags, chalk marks, etc. were intact.

As for the "aftermarket accessories" like the tach, wheels, suspension mods, the only thing not installed by Grand Spaulding before the car sold new was the "paint job" on the bottom of the car, a popular thing to do. The rest was added by Mr. Norm to speed the sale of this car- which was a lot lizard, selling in 1971. This conversation is EXACTLY why its important to have a lifetime documentation of a given car. When some calls https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif you have the docs to prove it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

~Patrick Krook

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

did Barry Washington buy it?

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

[ QUOTE ]
did Barry Washington buy it?

[/ QUOTE ] Nope he looked at it for posterity and to prepare an article he did on it Chryslers at Carlisle in '05 when they were featuring survivors. We sold the car in our first online auction event, March of the Muscle Cars, to a private party living in Nebraska I believe.

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow on both cars! The T/A looks low mile, but if I had to guess, I'd peg it at 1500 to 3500 miles not the advertised 250. 250 miles is like 0. no wear at all, still I guess is possible, sometimes 0 miles in a less than perfect storage location can take its toll...

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250 miles driven a few on the street to get to the drag strip and then hurtled down the 1320 gauntlet. That is not the same at 250 miles grandma driven...wearing looks like it does, even more than a 2,000 or so street driven miles. This uncovers another misnomer in the hobby, low miles equals pristine preservation. I'd take a 30,00-60,000 street driven car that was consistently garaged over a sub 10,000 drag racer any day, if I were looking to preserve a car or restore to factory delivered. Just my $0.02...~Patrick Krook

Re: 250 mile Challenger T/A
 

The T/A was neat. I really prefer an original car than any restored car as well. I like to see and feel the history of a car. Too bad I didn't have a chance to take a look at that car in person. What did the traction bars look like on that car? I have a Dart that has some weird vintage traction bars on it. I'd like to compare them to this car as mine was local to GSD.