JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

I know previous items from this seller have been discussed here before, but I am wondering if a Nov of 68 car could be original JL8 car. Anyone know?

Lynn

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

RPO JL8 was available as an option starting in March of 69, and ending around the third week of July, 69.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

The JL8 option was released with lots of press coverage around spring 1968. Hot Rod covered it with a feature article; Car and Driver did a comparison test of a 1968 Z/28-RS with cross-ram, JL8, TI, headers [where is THAT car...] against a tunnel-port 302 Mustang, complete with F60 x 15 tires even Goodyear didn't know about. Of course the Camaro won.

Despite all of this and JL8 being listed in the 1968 Camaro assembly manual no '68 is known to have been built with it.

For 1969 it appears Chevrolet had every intention of having JL8 available at the start of 1969 Camaro production-it is listed on the 6-68 rev of the 1969 Camaro dealer order form and mentioned in many early ads. The reality is it was not released to production until around February 1969. The earliest known production installation is on a documented 02D car built at Norwood.

JL8 appears to have been dropped as an option May-June 1969. The latest known installation is 06A.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know previous items from this seller have been discussed here before, but I am wondering if a Nov of 68 car could be original JL8 car. Anyone know?

Lynn

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing that you're talking about the Lemans Blue RS/Z28 with the crossram and JL8. That car was discussed last year and Ed C had inspected it I believe and found the POP didn't have the right glue holding it to the warranty card so it's questionable. I still don't understand why that Carolina Blue Lyle Mader car keeps bringing hihgher and higher numbers when it never even had the JL8 brakes installed. R&S auction lists it's estimated value at $175-225K! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...A%3AIT&rd=1

Yes, this one. Sorry, must be getting old. Thought I had included a link on my first post.

I agree on the Carolina Blue car. Only real significance to that car is the paint delete code. I understand lots of guys will pay huge bucks for a cross ram car, but we all know NONE of them came that way from the factory.

Lynn

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Educate me.
I'm guessing the JL8 was intended for SCCA or Trans-Am racing (??). Was there an upcoming big race that Chevy wanted to win, and have a car with "RPO"s that could compete?
I know Chevy did that for other years and RPOs just ahead of Daytona, or the Winternationals.
Has it been documented that the first JL8 equipped cars went into successful racers hands? That was the case with some of their other "special" RPOs (such as Z-06, Z-11).
Is there a known quantity of factory JL8 built cars? Who manufactured the rear assemblies for Chevy. Does anyone know, or have a good guess why that great option was so short lived? And wasn't '69 Chevy's most successful Trans-Am racing season? How come no more 4-wheel discs?
Sorry for so many questions. I'm just a dummy where these cars are concerned, and I'll propably never own a Camaro, but I'm curious. If someone would take the time to educate me, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif
Verne

Hey Lynn, I just noticed I'm 2 posts behind you. You must be nuts!................Hey, wait a minute...........what does that make me?????? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

206 factory JL8 Camaros. Probably short lived becasue it cost 500 bucks.

Service axles were available to "race teams". That axle is not physically the same as a factory axle though.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

That car on Ebay has a LOS trim tag... I was under the impression that all Z's were NOR cars. Is that correct?

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

I am restoring 2 J-L8's as we speak 1 is a Norwood car and the other a LA car both cars have all original drive trains and factory documentation.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

[ QUOTE ]
That car on Ebay has a LOS trim tag... I was under the impression that all Z's were NOR cars. Is that correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Plenty of 69 Z's from LA.

Lynn

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Hey Verne:

I think Mark C. nailed it. The option was just too darn expensive, especially considering few guys in the day were concerned with how fast they could STOP!!

The 68 Z that William referenced in the Car & Driver road test comparo had a service package rear. Rules were that they could prep the cars with any part that could be purchased over the counter at a local dealer, i.e. "any factory installed or dealer available part would be acceptable if it was homologated." C&D guys were a little surprised the Camaro camp didn't opt for the Corvette's wider wheels.

BTW, if any of you ever get a chance to buy an old copy of the July 68 C&D, buy it. That is by far the coolest article from the muscle car era, IMHO. Sam Posey was a riot. I first read it in college doing "research" in the library for a history class. Ran across it on microfilm on accident and then had to have the magazine.

The Camaro did a 13.77 1/4 at 107.39 on the factory E 70 15 skinnies without traction bars. Yellow with black vinyl top, custome interior and power steering.

I am with William on this one: where IS that car? Talk about a piece of history.

Lynn

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

In fact, here it is, and well worth the money (I have no stake in the sale).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-driver-1968-lot-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

"The 68 Z that William referenced in the Car & Driver road test comparo had a service package rear."

I beg to differ. I have under car photos of it showing parking brake cables. The OTC conversion did not use a parking brake.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Thanks Lynn,
I probably have that issue. I subscribed for over 20 years until I finally got too tired of reading about Porsches.

So, do you think a '69 Trans-Am car would be "legal" with rear discs? Are there any?

Thanks
Verne

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Verne, the SCCA said that Chevrolet had to install the option on at least 500 cars to make it legal for Trans Am racing. And Chevrolet showed them that the option was being ordered(Chev probably installed it themself on cars to run up the numbers) so it was a legal option. But in the end, there were only 206 cars built with the JL8 option. Most of the racers used the HD service package rear since it was much cheaper than the full JL8 option. The ZL2 cowl induction hood was another option that they needed to produce a minimum 500 units to make it legal. Racers were using the fiberglass crossram hood(estimate of around 100 made) but the ZL2 option was a steel single 4 bbl hood which made the fiberglass one eligible as well. In Wayne Guinn's book he describes how the JL8 rears were built by modifying standard 12 bolt rears. They were done in batches which also made availability limited. When you look back at it now, 4 wheel disc brakes on a 1969 Camaro is pretty awesome considering the only other cars to have it were the Corvette or some exotic exports. But it's not just that it's 4 wheel disc brakes, the setup was created and tested to allow for serious road racing and could handle an incredible amount of braking during a race without heating up too much and fading out over time. Most new cars with 4 wheel discs have tiny rear rotor which would never be able to handle the rigors of racing. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Thanks Jeff. Interesting stuff!
Chevy seemed to be pretty intersted in racing, but sometimes their staff let things fall through the cracks. Take the '63 Z-11 for instance. NHRA required 50 production units to qualify for Super Stock, but the first list Chevy sent to their tech was only about 45 cars. When Haydon Profitt showed up at the Winternationals, they made him run "LP" Limited Production. Even though Chevy did build 50 cars, they never sent another letter and list to NHRA, so LP turned into FX, and that's where the cars ran through the season. Of course, about the time of the Winternationals, the anti-racing ban took effect and anyone in the division who supported racing activities in any way was given their last paycheck.

No doubt the JL8 was engineered for racing purposes. I suppose finding an original car that was NOT raced would be a pretty rare find!

Verne

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No doubt the JL8 was engineered for racing purposes. I suppose finding an original car that was NOT raced would be a pretty rare find!

Verne

[/ QUOTE ]

The JL8 option was very expensive so most of the 206 cars built were not for race teams. And if you look at all the componets, the rear brakes/rotors are the same size as the front brakes/rotors and they were actually larger than the standard front disc brakes. So it really was a race developed option that most people don't realize. The 68 Camaro I had 2 years ago had one of the newer conversion kits and it used full size rotors on the rear. All I can say is that the car was the best braking car I've ever been in. And that was not race type stuff, just standard single piston calipers. There are a lot of 1 off custom components used in the JL8 setup to adapt the big brakes. The strangest thing was that you could get the JL8 setup on a 6 cyl car if you wanted to. I've heard of at least 1 car that was built that way.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

So on the J-56 JL8 cars did they use a Corvette J-56 Caliper or was there a specific twin retaining pin caliper just for the Camaro? I have always wondered about this.
Because if I am not mistaken the standard rear Corvette 4 piston caliper will not fit on the Camaro rear ....correct?

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

I don't have my parts here at the house but I believe the standard JL8 setup used the single retaining pin and so the standard Corvette calipers can be used. But for racing purposes they recommended using the J56 caliper setup with the dual reataining pins for smoother pad movement.

http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/d9/94/37_12.JPG

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Don't know if the actual J56 calipers will work with the Camaro, but GM released a drawing that shows how to modify the JL8 calipers for use with the flanged J56 pads.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Yes, they show how to remove that top pin retaining tab and drill the holes in each end for the 2 pin setup using the J56 pads but not J56 caliper.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"The 68 Z that William referenced in the Car & Driver road test comparo had a service package rear."

I beg to differ. I have under car photos of it showing parking brake cables. The OTC conversion did not use a parking brake.

[/ QUOTE ]

William:

First, post some pictures of that car! I would love to see them. Second, you are correct in that it would have been a true JL8 set up, complete with the little drum type park brakes and cables, but I still believe it was only available over the counter in 68. It was an RPO for 69, but the rear axle is the same as what what sold over the counter for the 68's which, if equipped with disc brakes, would already have the four piston calipers in front.

I shouldn't have used the term "service package rear" as that has come to mean the different over the counter rear end sold in 69. So the "service" rear in 68 became the RPO JL8 in 69 and a slightly different unit became the "service" package rear in 69.

According to Colvin, speaking of the RPO JL8, "This rear axle assembly was available through Chevrolet service in 1968, but few people other than factory supported race teams knew of the option."

As usual, I could be wrong. Anyone seen a documented 68 equipped with JL8 from the factory?

Sorry for any confusion.

Lynn

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

According to Wayne's book, the 4 wheel disc brake system was made available in March 68 as a heavy duty service package. There were 2 components to the kit. The front portion of the kit was part # 3957993-92. The rear axle assembly was part # 3945131 and was a complete rear package that included the parking brakes and re-routed brake piping. So that's probably what was on the test car. Not a true JL8 setup but the heavy duty service package rear assembly.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

I have spoken a couple of times with a guy who has a yellow '68 Z/28 and it has 4-wheel discs plus it has the original protect-o-plate showing the rear disc code. Only one I've heard of, but I haven't personally seen the car or the p-o-p. I guess I need to give him another call.

-Jon

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Hmmmm, that would be interesting to see what he really has. What did you say his phone # was? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Never thought about the smoother pad movement... but come to think of it the Brembo's on my Porsche used twin pins.
Hmmm
Are the twin pin J56 pads even available any longer?

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

Lynn,
There were no 1968 factory installed JL8 cars. If you wanted a 4 wheel disc JL8 for your 1968, it had to be dealer installed. How many 68s had this option? Because there was no paper trail from GM, Nobody really knows. All the experts Ive spoken to say very few. How do I know? I have one in my shop. I bought the car from a friend 3 years ago. He was the 2nd owner and owned it for 28 years, only put 3 thousand miles on it.

Re: JL8 available first week of Nov, 68?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lynn,
There were no 1968 factory installed JL8 cars. If you wanted a 4 wheel disc JL8 for your 1968, it had to be dealer installed. How many 68s had this option? Because there was no paper trail from GM, Nobody really knows. All the experts Ive spoken to say very few. How do I know? I have one in my shop. I bought the car from a friend 3 years ago. He was the 2nd owner and owned it for 28 years, only put 3 thousand miles on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raymond:

Thanks for the input. That is what I have thought for years. Of course you hear stories, but who knows?

I would sure like to see pics of the car in your shop. Where are you located. Wouldn't happen to be yellow with black vinyl top and a custom interior would it?

William:

Still hoping you post some of the pics you have of that C&D car.

Lynn