Question about VIN stampings
 

I was looking at some partial VIN stampings and it sure looks like the partial VIN on the engine is also the exact same stamp used on the hidden VIN's on the body. Is this a known fact? I know the transmission VIN and engine VIN should be the exact same stamp but I wasn't sure if the engine/trans stamp would match the hidden VIN as well.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

It is usually the same sequence. See the attached photo of a 72 Trans Am. It goes Year, Plant, Vin sequnce: "2N519898"

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

I can help out a litle on Oldsmobiles built in Lansing plant from 1968-1973 when I was a process engineer on the final assembly line. Among many other things, VIN stamping on the frames was one of my responsibilities.

All the Olds cars built then were body/frame and the only hidden VIN stamps were on the top frame rails on the drivers side in two places. One was near the transmission crossmember and the other was behind the rear wheel. In each case, it was a 9 digit alphanumeric with the division (Olds was number 3), the year (8 for 68, etc.), the plant code (Lansing was M), and the 6 digit sequential number starting with 100000. This same number was hand stamped on the engine block and the transmission casing with a BFH. Only other place the VIN appeared in the car was on the VIN plate that was rivetted to the upper I/P and the blue sticker/label in the door jambs after 1970(I think).

I think that policy also applied to other GM divisions with body frame cars, not sure what they did on unibody and partial frame cars (like Camaro/Nova, etc.)

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

I know the sequence is the same but I'm wondering if they physically used the same gang stamp to hit all the areas that needed the partial VIN. So if there was something odd about one of the digits it would look exactly the same on all the stamps(ie they used an "I" instead of a "1"). So would they stamp the engine/trans and then hit the top of the cowl and firewall by the heater box all with the same stamp before changing the gang stamp for the next car?

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

JohnZ could certainly give us a definitive answer on this, but I will go out on a limb and say the two body stamps were from the same unit. However, the partial VIN on engine and trans were a smaller font, so could not be the same. I want to say 3/16 on the body numbers and 1/8 on the engine/trans. I am almost certain JohnZ recently posted something about the body stampings on the team camaro site. It was a type of roll stamp and done by machine, not with a gang holder like engine and trans.

I just went out in the garage and looked at my body stampings and they appear identical, except the one under the blower fan is upside down. The fifth digit on mine is somewhat out of place about the same amount on both of mine.

Lynn

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

The hidden body stamps are different then the engine and trans stamps.

The Engine and Transmission stamps should be identical to each other.
They were stamped by the same guy at the same time.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

I guess I misunderstood your initial question. While the alpha numeric information will be the same, the stamps that imprint them are definitely different in both size and font.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Is that true on all full frame cars, the body doesn't have hidden VINs and they are only on the frame as outlined in the post above by dehw31? I though Chevelles had hidden VINs on the body like Camaros.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

The transmission and engine were done with the same hand stamp. The frame and firewall were done with the roller type stamp. The numbers were changed manually so sometimes numbers were installed upside down and "6" and "9" got mixed up along with whatever other mistakes that could be made. I maintained these units in the Oshawa truck plant for many years. Hand stamping the firewall with that many numbers would cave the sheet metal in and just would not work. The roller type stamps for the sheet metal could act up some times and not index properly but worked pretty well for the most part when properly maintained. Our Baltimore built '69 had no VIN numbers on the frame, just some frame manufacturer's numbers.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Charlie,
Full frame cars also have VIN's stamped on the frame and firewall. It depends on the plant and body style as to where they are found. Chevelles also have them stamped on the firewalls and frame though I seldom find any VIN stampings on Chevelle frames. Also, at least one plant routinely does not stamp the firewall on the Chevelle and stamps the VIN under the dash panel instead as I recently was informed.
Rick

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

I know our old 69 Impala convertible (built at the St. Louis plant) had the CON VIN stamped under the blower motor housing on the firewall.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Here's a typical engine/transmission VIN derivative gang holder, where one (or more) digits were manually changed for each job as it came down the engine dress line; each individual character die had a slot milled in one side, and the spring clip kept them from falling out:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...2/Stamper3.jpg

Here's a typical air-powered frame VIN stamper - it clamped to the frame rail and stamped the top surface, normally in two places:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...stamper833.jpg

The body/cowl stamper was made by the same company (George T. Schmidt Co. in Chicago), but was a multi-segment indexing "egg-stamper" mounted on a swiveling bail like a spot-weld gun; the "egg" rolled one way for the cowl impression, the tool was re-positioned to the heater opening, and it rolled back the other way, and was then indexed one digit for the next job.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Incredible...Great pics & info Mr.Z
Thank You for sharing.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Great pics.....

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Thanks John Z, I figured you would have the detailed answer.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Great pictures John. Any chance you could share other assembly line photos. I am amazed at how many myths these photos can dispell. Thank you for sharing them with us! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif
Rick

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Neat pics, John, thank you for the info https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

My Pontiac built 68 GTO has no VIN on the frame nor does it hav any hidden VIN's that I can find...

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

If the body VINs were stamped as described above, what are the thoughts on the cowl stampings of this LS6 rag on ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4599998347

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

My thoughts are that I would be suspicious of those stampings. The sheet metal looks pretty distorted in the stamped areas. Perhaps the Los Angeles plant used a different stamping method on the bodies https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Is that not a hidden VIN number on the cowl below the heater fan?..Why is there not a close up of that number?
Martin

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why is there not a close up of that number?

[/ QUOTE ]

Better look again...there IS a closeup of the number under the blower motor opening.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is there not a close up of that number?

[/ QUOTE ]

Better look again...there IS a closeup of the number under the blower motor opening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill:Are the eyes the first thing to go? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

The firewall on the LS6 convertible looks like what you would expect from a hand stamping. The metal around the numbers on our car is flat and not indented like this one. The numbers are not stamped nearly as deep either. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif
The hand stamp shown above is the same as what we used on the truck engine and transmissions until a few years ago. We added a big flat knob to the back end of the stamp so that the operators had something to hit. New, unco-ordinated operators used to hit their hands a lot before this modification.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

[ QUOTE ]
We added a big flat knob to the back end of the stamp so that the operators had something to hit. New, unco-ordinated operators used to hit their hands a lot before this modification.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Can you say "Lost Time Injury" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

[ QUOTE ]
The firewall on the LS6 convertible looks like what you would expect from a hand stamping. The metal around the numbers on our car is flat and not indented like this one. The numbers are not stamped nearly as deep either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keith,

Does your car have the CON VIN stamp in one place or two on the firewall? Our Impala had it in only one location, under the blower motor opening. The metal around it was very flat also. Kinda tough to seal up the blower motor housing when your firewall is all wavy.

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Our car has the 9B412667 stamped inverted below both heater holes. We'll be checking for any other stampings once the body is completely stripped.
The VIN stamper not held square to the body might account for the distorted metal around the numbers. Something that meant nothing in 1970 can throw a red flag today. You can't blame people for being careful though when you seen what these cars are going for. Cars at these prices I would only want to buy from the original owner. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

These are the stamps on the firewall of my red LS-6 convertible going to Barrett-Jackson. There is no Question on these. Look at the Vin it is partially visable under the heater box. Yes we dissassembled this car to get these pictures. With all the questions arissing on rebodies this was a smart move!!!!. Jim https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

More

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

This is the viev of the exposed numbers. Jim

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

Good pictures, Jim. That's about how our old Impala looked, too....considerably different than what's posted with the green car's eBay auction https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/crazy.gif

Looking forward to seeing your car in AZ in a couple weeks https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Question about VIN stampings
 

This is a shot of the firewall of a car I restored last fall/winter with a friend('69 Chevelle SS 396/325 4spd convertible) made at the Leeds plant. Note two partial VINs -one below the heater motor/one below the heater core opening.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...2/DSC00417.jpg

Close ups of stamps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...DSC01402_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...2/DSC01406.jpg