If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advise!
 

I have just purchased what was supposed to be an original (non-matching) RS/SS 396 car from a dealer in Missouri. However, I'm now fairly certain the cowl tag is forged.

The dealer has had the car since '04, but I have no reason yet to believe (nor do I mean to imply) that they in any way knew it was forged. But if anyone knows the history of this car, or saw it at the dealer and had reason to believe the dealer knew it was fake, please PM me with details.

http://softwareonline.com/camaro/index.htm

VIN 124379N603256

Thanks,
Dave

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Dave, sent you a pm.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

The cowl tag looks too crisp compared to my original.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86...6/DSCN0033.jpg

Paul

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Looks OK to me.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Sorry I was referring to Pauls original pictured above.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Yeah, that blue SS396 has a fake tag. Or a repro tag if you want to call it that. Car might not even be a real SS. If it doesn't have any documentation or matching #'s engine then who knows what it really was.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

There is no doubt about it being a bogus repro tag. That business also had another 69 SS Camaro L78 that was Hugger Orange and its tag was bogus also. A friend of mine has looked at 3 cars there for people and so far none of them were legit as to their original heritage. I would be very cautious when purchasing a car from this business. So far you are................RatPack...................

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Fake Tag. Not even a good one at that.

Three fake cars from a place selling "dream cars"?

More like a nightmare.

I realize it is not a crime to swap a tag on your own vehicle. However, I believe it is at least fraud, and in some states a crime, to knowingly misrepresent a vehicle with a swapped tag.

I have heard that some of the guys swapping trim tags on Ferrari's got stung pretty good with civil suits. Hopefully some muscle car dealers will be next.

Don't know what you paid, but I would seriously consider taking the car back and demanding a full refund. However, it does look like a nice car, and maybe you are happy with it as is.

Lynn

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

I don't know guys!
'68 style intake, french locks on the ehaust manifolds,
1970+ upper alternator bracket, .... Ans what's that, a
THM350 kickdown cable instead of the THM400 electric
switch. Looks like a small block transmission to me.
I'd strongly suggest you get your $$ back too. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Steve

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

The 5's are way off look at the lower loop on the repop the loop comes no where close to the vertical on the 5 but on the original it is very close.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Dave, what is your email address, nothing shown in your profile. I wish I had read your post a litter closer as I did not know you had already purchased the car.........RatPack.................

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Looks to me like the 5`s on a Los car are different on a Nor car. Also the sharpness of the numbers at times. The Los cars have way more crisp numbers and letters. So many differences at times of the year how will anyone ever be able to be sure.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Here is a pic of my '69 tag that I feel is a original since I have owned the car so many years that they didn't fake them that long ago.

by the way my vin on mine is N609995 so it was built a little after yours.

Pantera

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

If anyone wants to drop me a note directly about this, my address is

[email protected]

Thanks!
- Dave

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

By the way, the ad says the car has a TH400. I'm not familliar with the differences in kickdown cables, but I'm guess this looks to have a TH350 from what you've said above.

The dealer has agreed that they owe me "something". When I asked them what the differnce was if they had to re-list the car accurately, he suggested maybe "one or two thousand". I (cough) said I thought it would be more than that, and that I'd get back to them after the weekend.

I paid $38,500 for the car. So the real question is what's a clone restored to this level worth if its not an X22, maybe not an original RS/SS, and has a TH350 instead of a TH400... ie, if you judge the car strictly on its merits of restoration and assume it was a 307 car when built.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

So here's my current list of why the dealer, as an expert, should have known:

- Car has a forged factory trim tag falsely indicating its original status as an X22 - RS/SS 396 car
- Car appears to have a TH350 transmission. Advertisement for car indicated that it has a TH400, as all 396 cars would have
- Car is the incorrect washer pump; all real RS cars had a specific pump with provisions for headlight washers
- All real RS cars have headlight washers. From the photos, these appear to be missing
- All real 396 cars had a blacked-out rear tailpan; this car's was body color until the dealer repainted it black
- All real 396/325hp cars would have a return vent line to the fuel tank, but it is absent on this car
- Car may have the backup lights in the wrong location for a real RS, though its inconclusive from the photos
- Car has the wrong tachometer; all 396/325hp cars had a tach with a higher redline
- Car has no clock; all factory console-gauge cars with a tach should have a center clock in the dash
- Car appears to have an incorrect 1968 style intake manifold
- Car has a 1970 or later alternator bracket
- Car has the incorrect power steering pump for an original 396 car
- Car has an incorrect steering wheel, likely from a Corvette or full-size GM car

Can anyone add to the list?

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

For the money you have invested and the liabilty they should have, get your money back and get an attorney and DMV involved as well as the police....this should be enought of pressure that they give your money back and you find a real car...you will forever have to explain this tag issue if you are an honest person.

Others may have a different opinion....JMO

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

I plan to give them the choice of recinding the transaction (ie: cancelling the sale and refunding my money) or paying me an adjustment that better reflects the fact that now I've got a car that, if they had to relist, would have to be relisted as a car of unknown oringial status, with the wrong equipment, and a forged or missing trim tag.

I just don't know what the value should be... $28,500? NADA values are all over the map, as low as $16,388 for a standard V8 Camaro, which is all I know for sure.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

JMO, mid 20's for the car if an adjustment is to be made, however, if that is the case and you get an adjustment, then the next owner that you try to get your mid 20's out of the car, will want a discount because the tag is not correct...and it continues. A big headache ....the car is beautiful in the pics...

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

At this point you have nothing to lose - get everyone involved starting with a lawyer. Worst case, you get an adjustment.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Spoke to the dealer this morning, and he offered to completely refund the purchase, which I think is a good offer. I said I would take the car for $28,500 (they originally listed it at $42,500, and I had paid $38,500). He said that have $37K into the car, but would refund $5000. I asked for $6000 back to make it $32,500. They mulled it for a while and agreed, on the condition that I sign a waiver indicating the vehicle was sold in "as-is" condition.

He seemed pretty confident that he could sell the car without the trim tag for $35K, which might be true. He's placing a lot of value on the fact that it has a 396 (numbers matching or not), but i've got a 396 under my workbench, so I guess I don't think of them as that valueable! Maybe I should starting buying 307 cars, sticking 396s in them and with $50 in badges from Year One, turn a profit :-)

In the end, regardless of what happened originally, I think these guys were pretty much a class act in their followup. They were polite, cordial, returned calls and answered emails, and of course, offered to revoke the deal at my choice. I'd have no hestitation buying from them again, though I'd place a lot less faith in the what the ad said and check things more closely on any car!

I've spent a lot of time researching Camaro values this weekend, and I think $32,500 is a decent price for the car. You can find them cheaper in rougher condition and you can pay a lot more to get numbers matching, but this seems to be a sweet spot.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

I think you should take the full refund and with your newly obtained knowledge, find a real car you will be happy with.

(Or take the full refund, send the car back and wait a week and then walk in with $28,500 cash, your original offer, telling them that since the world knows its a fake car, they should sell it to you at that price to avoid any further bad publicity) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

second the run with your dough..you would be hard pressed to get your dough back down the road...

more and more of these cars are being black balled by the net and when you decide to sell there may even be a web site for folks to check on funny cars and this one would be listed...just a little info to mull around before parting with your hard earned dough.

Bud.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

IMO if you would have bought your flood insurance before the flood instead of trying to get it after the fact you would have avoided all of this crap. As it stands now you have drug a good mans name thru the mud

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Dealers Dealers Dealers https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Take the refund for all the car.....you will forever be haunted with this tag issue and value. Take this as a lesson and gift that they are willing to refund all the money. Merry Xmas early...you are very lucky!

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Take the money and run!

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

1st. I would take the money, unless you love this car and plan to keep it until death. Cause it will be a bitch to sell "honestly".
2nd. While i have never bought a car from this dealer, i do know them and find them to be strait up. Kudos to them for the refund offer.
3rd. I am a firm believer in a "knowledgeable" inspection before purchase.

Often times these dealers need inventory and will buy cars at auction without thorough (beyond cosmetic) inspection.

Colin is a prime example of a savy dealer. (eeww, i here Colin's head swelling from here https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif) He knows that fakes are out there and will kill your hard earned rep.

Good luck with car.

John

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

This dealer has been called on the carpet on this website before in a similar scenario. Call it what you may but I call it misrepresentation. I don't have alot of sympathy for someone who claims this as their core business.

Re: If you know about this RS/SS 396 car, pls advi
 

Hopefully he got all of his money back. It is back up for sale at the same dealer.

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonl...8/81625658.htm