Is your "word" something to trust?
 

I had a friend that found a 30th Anniversary LT-4 Camaro and made a deal with the seller. (He even sent a deposit to the seller to hold the Camaro for him.) The friend calls the seller back and he is told he sold the Camaro to another buyer for a higher price! How can someone do this while holding a deposit? I value my "word" when I give it to someone! This was wrong in my opinion!
I thought I would post this and see what you guys and gals think of this.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

That is what Lawyers are for. If it is a real problem,- consult with one - otherwise just suck it up.


Today if you really want a car and you are not working with a dealer under written contract, take cash or a certified check pick up the car ASAP, and do not delay.

Seems to me that the issue (if any) will be in what kind of agreement the seller had with the buyer when the deposit was taken.


Phil

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

when I sold the COPO, I had no deposit, just gave the guy a Time slot for the Following day. Ten Minutes later,I got a call from the West Coast and a guy wanted the Car and wanted it Bad. I told him that I had already scheduled a Man to come and see it the Following day... He offered to wire the funds right then. I told him that is a lot of Money to turn away and I know a bird in the hand beats 6 in the Bush, but I just would not feel right about it. He agreed and commented that He wants one bad but that would suck to have that happen to him. I told him I would call him the next day and let him know either way. The first Fella took the car so I made the Dear John Call as I said I would. He is a Nice Guy and I hope he finds his COPO soon as He is definitely a deserving guy.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

A man's word "Should" mean something, and it just basically comes down to the individual... When I went to look at my Deuce for the first time, I told the guy I definitely wanted it, and gave him a modest deposit. Less than a week later, a few opportunists got wind of the car's existance, and tried to offer more money, and even offered to buy my car AND Franks as a package deal. (Frank also had a deposit on the car, and both cars were "stablemates") Fortunately for us, the seller was a man of his word, and refused to sell the cars out from under us, even when more money was on the table. Its situations like this where its easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad. -JB


PS: Tell your buddy to keep the faith... I've seen quite a few LT-4 30 Anny's for sale this year.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

This is a great thread and relates to something that I agree is sadly lacking in today's world. I suppose it is because so much is money driver anymore. Here's a couple of personal examples that I don't know would wash these days, keeping in mind we are dealing with two different countries as well.

1) - In 1995 I sold my 69 GTO to a collector in California. He never inspected the car personally and only went by pictures and my description. Granted, it had a GTOAA National First Place under it's belt, but still you think the proposed purchaser would want to inspect it. Anyway, the deal was done, I had all the money in hand just waiting for the transport company to come and pick it up. Essentially I had the car in my garage and the money in my bank for about two weeks. He sure put a lot of trust in me. When the car arrived he was extremely happy.

2) - I bought my 69 Velle in Florida in 2000. I flew down to inspect the car and paid the owner at that time. The car stayed in his garage for about a week until the transport company could pick it up. I put a lot of trust in the seller at that time. We have remained friends and communicate every so often (he is a member on here).

As I said, don't know if either of these situations would happen today.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

If you agreed on a price, gave a deposit and he gave a deadline to pay balance and you followed his rules and then he sold it out from under you - that stinks. I would never do that to someone else. The guy 2nd in line will understand that 1st in line has a deadline to get r dun. I'm young but I'm old school I guess.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Don, I've done alot of those same transactions, been friends with the other person ever since - kinda cool. Its like this BIG internet thing has got so many of us together with out even meeting each other, it seems like friends you've known for years with common intrests - very cool. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Just wandering was this the lt4 on e-bay???The seller of that car was very untrustable indeed as i saw the auction was full of strange price increases and bid retractions etc https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif.I have lost many cars due to people not being a man of thier word https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif as for the lawyer option) its not worth it!! remember what goes around comes around he,ll have his day... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif jmho

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

That stinks! On the 1st JL8 car I had, I gave my word to a potential buyer who was flying in from the west coast. I had another buyer ask me if I took a deposit and I told him no, but I wouldn't let anyone else look at until the first guy had his chance. This buyer was ready to wire a deposit and I told him no. The west coast buyer ended up buying the car. I've held several cars for people with a small deposit or no deposit at all because I'm a man of my word. I've lost out on a couple of cars because the seller wouldn't let me look at it until the next day, but they told me I had first shot at it. Then somebody else came along early in the day and bought it out from under me. If you gave a deposit, then there might be some legal argument that he owes you that car at the agreed price. If he sold it, then he should find another one for him at the same price. Does anyone with a legal background know if this situation has any kind of potential reward to it or is it a waste of time and money? Always curious to hear other thoughts.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

If you put a deposit on the car, it's a binding contract. If he sold it to another person while holding your deposit he is liable for damages. But you're gonna have to spend a bunch of $$$ for a lawyer to sue him. If that doesn't bother you, go for it. You probably wont get the car but you'll get some satisfaction that the guy who sold it for a higher price will now be spending most of what he got for the car on a lawyer to defend himself against your lawsuit.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

I can honestly say that I have had some really great experiences with car transactions over the last 5-6 years. Some of the best have been with guys from this site...maybe I have been lucky or it was just meant to be, not sure. INTEGRITY is rarer than a matching numbers BB Nova, and worth a whole lot more!!

Thanks to all the folks who treated me nice, hope I can return the favor some day. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

wilma

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Basic business law. Unfortunatly most do not follow it and I have lost a few cars to this type of dealings.

When you said sent, was the deposit in the mail or was the seller in actual hold of the deposit? There is a difference in legal matters. Saying he sent a deposit means nothing unless the seller actually accepted the deposit and notified the buyer he was in receipt. Unfortunately if the deposit is in the mail the seller can cancel the agreement by notifying the buyer before he receives the deposit. The buyer has the right to do the same before money is accepted.

If he was in receipt then he was wrong and can be held liable. Of course as mentioned it would cost the buyer more as well as the seller. Just not worth the aggrevation.

It's a shame because the car is only one of 100 made and would make a great addition to any garage.

Rick H.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

I might add that anyone doing this long distance be sure to get the terms of the deal down in writing and of course be sure that you get the original back in the mail. If you have proof that you acted in good faith then most Judges will find in your favor. The writen contract and receipt shows the intent of both parties.

I will never forget a judge telling me when a guy backed out of a sale on a car and I had kept his deposit. He told me that if I had wrote anything down on the sales contract, that if the buyer didn't pick up the car in a certain amount of time then he forfeted the deposit money. He said if it was in any form of writing that he could haave understand, he would find in my favor. So, the guy got his deposit money back and I had to pay the court costs.

I know this is hard to do long distance, but fax the seller something in writing with the terms you and he have agreed to and a copy of your check. Be sure to have him sign it and fax it right back. Also insist that he puts the original that he actually signed in the mail that same day. This is no gurantee you will prevail in court but you will have a better chance in court than he will.

Sellers remorse might be avoided if you have a litte fodder like these documents on your side.

For what it is worth. Mind you I am not an attorney but sure have paid them lots of money over the years and this was something that I learned the hard way. Just be careful. There are so many crooks out there that will take your money and disappear. Check them out as much as you can beforehand.

Good Luck
Pantera

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had a friend that found a 30th Anniversary LT-4 Camaro and made a deal with the seller. (He even sent a deposit to the seller to hold the Camaro for him.) The friend calls the seller back and he is told he sold the Camaro to another buyer for a higher price! How can someone do this while holding a deposit? I value my "word" when I give it to someone! This was wrong in my opinion!
I thought I would post this and see what you guys and gals think of this.

[/ QUOTE ]I think when a deal is made through a hand shake or a persons word it shows a lot of integrity and class....When a seller decides to change their mind and sell the car out from under a buyer who he already agreed to just shows poor ethics https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif...

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Because of the "big" money involved with these cars everyone has to be careful with written/printed documentation and be very careful when someone in giving you his "word".

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

When it comes to big dollar transactions on rare cars such as this or any high dollar item it's a sellers market and the only "word" that means anything is what is written in the sales agreement. Spell it out completely.

Handshakes and promises are a thing of the past and mean nothing. It's a shame really.

Rick H.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Handshakes and promises are a thing of the past and mean nothing. It's a shame really.

Rick H.

[/ QUOTE ]

Been there on all sides of this scenario but still don't believe it's all gone bad yet!

A hard part of the situation is, often a sale is to finance another purchase and so on down the line of guys doing the same thing....the chain reaction breakdown when one part goes sour causes more than the one deal to go bad.

Whatever happens, legal fights seem to result in even more wrongs so get on with life and enjoy the good things now....fill 'er up with Hi-Test and practise your Ronnie Sox clutching imitation while it's all still possible!

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

This World needs an Enema.
http://www.abraxasgroup.net/images/Joe_Isuzu.JPG

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

I am thankful for all the input and advice posted. I am the guy who was "shafted".

For those curious, The seller agreed repeatedly to the selling price of $28,900. He supplied bank information and was wired a $5000 deposit, which he confirmed had arrived. The bid retraction that was noticed earlier was due to a woman who meant to bid $29000, mistakenly she entered $2,900,000 !! The seller (Kirk Trascher from Houston) told me that he did not know how to end the auction. I told him that I would raise the proxy amount to eliminate any other claims to the car due to EBay.

I confirmed the sale particulars with Kirk one last time before I left to visit my elderly folks in St Louis, where I was without computer access.

Someone (with past Ebay purchases of Yenko material)attempted to outbid my proxy during the closing of the Ebay auction. The closing price ended at $36K. This is when, in my opinion, Kirk lost his sense of what is right and wrong. The "other" bidder was contacted or made contact with Kirk and they struck a new deal. Kirk was so kind as to offer me first right of refusal on the new sale amount!!

I was polite at first. I reminded him of our previous agreement outside the Ebay auction and to ask for a dollar more was unethical. My comments fell on deaf ears.

I did contact an attorney. There is legal grounds to impose a sale restraining order. But, as others here have mentioned, the cost and the aggrevation outweigh the potential gains.

Anyway, Thanks for listening and for those that took the time to comment. I'll see some of you next summer at Carlisle.

Regards,
Glenn J Coleman

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

To all those that have replied to the post, thanks for your inputs. I think this is some information we should all consider the next time we do any dealings, but remember, there are still some good honest people left out there.

One day this Camaro will show up and people will know who bought it.
I still believe in the old saying..."What goes around will come around."

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am thankful for all the input and advice posted. I am the guy who was "shafted".

For those curious, The seller agreed repeatedly to the selling price of $28,900. He supplied bank information and was wired a $5000 deposit, which he confirmed had arrived. The bid retraction that was noticed earlier was due to a woman who meant to bid $29000, mistakenly she entered $2,900,000 !! The seller (Kirk Trascher from Houston) told me that he did not know how to end the auction. I told him that I would raise the proxy amount to eliminate any other claims to the car due to EBay.

I confirmed the sale particulars with Kirk one last time before I left to visit my elderly folks in St Louis, where I was without computer access.

Someone (with past Ebay purchases of Yenko material)attempted to outbid my proxy during the closing of the Ebay auction. The closing price ended at $36K. This is when, in my opinion, Kirk lost his sense of what is right and wrong. The "other" bidder was contacted or made contact with Kirk and they struck a new deal. Kirk was so kind as to offer me first right of refusal on the new sale amount!!

I was polite at first. I reminded him of our previous agreement outside the Ebay auction and to ask for a dollar more was unethical. My comments fell on deaf ears.

I did contact an attorney. There is legal grounds to impose a sale restraining order. But, as others here have mentioned, the cost and the aggrevation outweigh the potential gains.

Anyway, Thanks for listening and for those that took the time to comment. I'll see some of you next summer at Carlisle.

Regards,
Glenn J Coleman

[/ QUOTE ]

There is all sorts of issues with this transaction. You offered to purchase the vehicle off auction and sent a deposit and he accepted. He doesn't know how to stop the auction?? Could have figured it out in 5 minutes. You should have insisted he stop the auction.

A woman mistakenly entered $2.9mil instead of $29k? Big flag there. Someone was hunting for reserve price. Did the auction ever end with reserve met??

Playing games by raising the bids is in my opening playing roulette and not a good practice. Again if he didn't know how to stop the auction you should have called him and talked him through it.

Another bidder finally outbid you because the auction ran to completion and legally the seller is now obligated to sell the car to the high bidder. How do you know what the other deal was between the seller and now final bidder?

"shafted"? In my opinion you helped in shafting yourself by allowing the auction to continue.

Yes, he was shady but you should have presisted on stopping the auction but you let it ride and finally got beat out by another bidder.

I think everyone should learn a lesson from this, lick your wounds and move on.

Rick H.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

I guess that answers the question about reserve being met.

Link to the LT-4 auction

Now I see why he was looking for the high dollar. 602 miles. Wow.

$8000 more then your offer is quite a lot. Not saying what he did was right but the high bidder is obligated to buy the car.

Rick H.

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Rick,

I already have "licked my wounds". I wasn't the one who started this post. I was just trying to fill in some of the blanks that several polite forum members had raised. Needless to say, I can replay the events that happened over the last 2 weeks and find my own errors. Several, you pointed out.

Have a pleasant day.

Glenn

Re: Is your "word" something to trust?
 

Glenn,
I wasn't pointed fault at you specifically. It was the whole transaction and faults by all parties.

Good luck.

Rick H.