Rand Workman Friday update
 

Well today I rode a Bike up there and it was a Great ride. Easy parking also. The Show was set up and things were in order. Beautiful Cars and Women everywhere you turned. Registration was a little delayed but the VIP lounge is Awesome! Custom Pool Table, Big Screen TV's, Food, Drink, and WOMEN!!! It is as if Maxim and GQ were throwing this shindig! I met a nice Couple from Texas who frequent this site. here is todays latest pictures link. Enjoy! http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...der_id=1449864

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Hey Dave:

Does your car have the style trim option? I noticed the chrome on the headlights, the wheel well trim, but no quarter panel "gills" .

Just wondering. Don't mean to give you any grief, especially since you already got enough of that for the funky tail lights.

Lynn

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Daves COPO is an X44. No style trim. Somebody obviously added the wheel well moldings and the headlight bucket chrome trim pieces. I have seen X77 Z's with all of the X33 exterior trim pieces added.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

I miss all the Grief!! That was Fun. What a welcoming Committee. LOL. I still love the Tail lights. which by the way will be available tomorrow for up close examination by any Experts who find themselves wandering in New York City. I should be up there by 3:00 pm at the latest. the 4th Owner added those items when he painted the car in 87. People often ask why there is no Drip rail mouldings and I point out that it is not supposed to have any at all. They are nice touches though.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

If you go to Ebay and search for Camaro Yenko or Copo you will see a Rand Workman link. Then you can watch live auction updates...No camera but live auction updates

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/805-196...559942247QQrdZ1

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQf...ssZrandworkman

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

'71 Hemi Cuda Convert sold for $4M....plus 14% buyer premium https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

eBay 'live' coverage ended before some of the cars had gone across the block https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
'71 Hemi Cuda Convert sold for $4M....plus 14% buyer premium https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The cuda did not sell. I believe last bid was 4.1 million by a phone bidder I was standing next to.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Did your car sell Steve ? What was the feel of the auction ? Real sales ?

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

It's now Saturday night at 10:45 PM. I just drove my Z11 home from the auction. (60 miles, the car drove great!) The auction was very disapointing. The collection of cars was nothing less than awesome but the collection of bidders was nothing more than a dozen people at most. They supposedly had 300 bidders signed up but the seats were absolutely empty on Friday and Saturday. I would guess that out of the 240 cars, maybe 20 cars sold, in total. So I was not going to stick around for the move out mayhem on Sunday. I will go back tomorrow and pick up my Suburban from the parking lot. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Just got back from the auctio....I'm mean car show. I belive an auction is where cars actually sell https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif. Here are some numbers cars went to.
Green Z-L1 no sale at 490,000.00
68 Z convertable no sale at 1,000,000.00
Hemi 4 door no sale at 600,000.00
69 camaro L-89 ragtop no sale at 185,000.00
NJ STEVES 69 pace car no sale at 83,000.00

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Forgot 1 69 fathom green Yenko Camaro no sale at 100,000.00

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

I spent a great couple of days at the "alleged auction" with Tom from Aloha. I do have to say he is a class act and a really nice guy. He also does some amazing restoration work. I ended up playing car jockey for him at times, so now I can say in a 12 hour period I drove a 19,000 mile hemi 4-speed Superbird, an LS6 Chevelle convertible, a 440 GTX, a 70 440 Six Pack Challenger convertible, a 1970 440 Six Barrel Cuda Convertible...and a measly little Z11 that my daughter is happy I did not sell. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Daves COPO is an X44. No style trim. Somebody obviously added the wheel well moldings and the headlight bucket chrome trim pieces. I have seen X77 Z's with all of the X33 exterior trim pieces added.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wasn't sure if some pieces were added or others left off during a previous resto. Really wasn't trying to give Dave a hard time. I am still intrigued by the tail lights, especially since there are no backup light wires in the trunk!

Good luck with the sale Dave.

Lynn

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

The Auction ended just before my Car was to be described in front of about 7 people. I just Drove Home. Got in My pickup Truck. went to my shop where I keep my Trailer. Drove Home. will hit the Road early and possibly get it out before the 12 Bidders from last night even arrive! while it was a great collection of Cars and High Class Vendors and all the Flavor of exciting Auction action, they just failed at attracting any serious Bidders.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Not sure of the rules of engagement, but did the no-sales have to be bought back by the sellers? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif I surely hope not. What a disappointment - this was definitely the buzz at the Pavillions Car Show in Scottsdale this eve.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Very interesting to hear the "real world" report from those of you at the show/auction. My wife and I spent most of yesterday afternoon in front of the computer screen, 'watching' the action on eBay. As each car was finished, the eBay screen showed "SOLD" in a column to the left of the listing, and the final bid in a column to the right. Absolutely no indication that these were only the high bids and no sale https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif Barrett-Jackson, Kruse, Russo-Steele, RM, et. al. are undoubtedly breathing a collective sigh of relief https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure of the rules of engagement, but did the no-sales have to be bought back by the sellers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam, I would think (and hope) that the no-sales were just that....the seller is out their entry fee and expenses and that's all. What a shame for the sellers who understandably had great expectations for this event https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Is there anyone that runs a "real" auction anymore. BJ forces people to list their car with no reserve or they won't take it across the stage and even then the sellers can bid on their own car to buy it back. That's not a no reserve auction. Then this auction with reserves showed fine print where the auctioneer could bid up to but not above the reserve for the seller! All this does is falsely inflate prices when there might only be 1 or 2 real bidders but the seller or auctioneer can create artificial bids to keep the price going up. Of course, BJ then requires the seller/buyer to pay the fees even if the person buys back their own car.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, BJ then requires the seller/buyer to pay the fees even if the person buys back their own car.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the owner is dumb enough to bid above his own reserve and get stuck with his own car then he deserves the 15 points he has to pay... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, BJ then requires the seller/buyer to pay the fees even if the person buys back their own car.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the owner is dumb enough to bid above his own reserve and get stuck with his own car then he deserves the 15 points he has to pay... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

BJ Scottsdale is a no reserve auction.

SS

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
BJ forces people to list their car with no reserve or they won't take it across the stage and even then the sellers can bid on their own car to buy it back.

[/ QUOTE ]

By allowing owners to buy back their own cars BJ still collects the 8% fee. (I think it's 8% of the selling price, isn't it?) Anyway, Craig Jackson makes his money either way. Any businessman will tell you that guaranteeing payment is just good business.

And no one "forces" an owner to participate at BJ. The rules are posted beforehand and an owner decides to play by them or not. If the no-reserve clause scares an owner, then that owner can go somewhere else to parade their car in front of people. Craig Jackson is running a business as well as an entertainment spectacle. Anyone with a serious intent to sell should know that the show spectacle that BJ has become (live TV, huge tents, people with large amounts of money to spend on cars) is a great place to sell their car, IF they truly want to sell it.

The Rand Workman auction is being criticized here on Y-net because the high reserves and no-sales seem to prove that owners are just shopping their cars with no serious intent to sell--that is, unless a bidder meets the (high) reserve set by the owner. Perhaps Rand Workman is an "anti-BJ" in the sense that owners want more control over bidders. Well, it looks like only about a dozen bidders showed up at Rand Workman. What does that tell you? (Hint: How many bidders register and show up at BJ Scottsdale?) Bidders want more control to buy and so they flock to Scottsdale where there's no reserve. Looks to me like no-reserve clauses bring in the bidders.

So all Craig Jackson is doing with the no-reserve clause is 1: ensuring that he makes his money--and who here doesn't want that for themselves? and, 2: in doing so, he ensures that bidders, who know a car will sell no matter how low the bid, become emotionally involved ("This can happen!") and make those sky-high bids such as the $300K for a '68 Shelby. That bidder let his young son make the call and dad kept bidding up and up and up. You know darn well that Shelby owner wasn't expecting to get $300K for his car but he was glad as hell to take the money and run.

A good auctioneer such as Craig Jackson deserves an honorary PHD in all fields of human behavioral study.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

So which auction brings in the "stupid" money and which one brings in the "smart" money? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
I have never been to an auction like either one of these.
Not that I've got anything against stupid money, is the point here that you have a better shot at getting some at BJ? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
So which auction brings in the "stupid" money and which one brings in the "smart" money?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Stupid" money is the shockingly high amount someone else pays for a car and is also an amount I will never be able to afford.

"Smart" money is the "stupid" money I collect when I sell my own car.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Barrett-Jackson, Kruse, Russo-Steele, RM, et. al. are undoubtedly breathing a collective sigh of relief https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]You mention KRUSE, they actuyally handled the Automotive aspect of this Auction! Rand/Workman are 2 New York visionaries who had a dream and turned it into reality. Sadly it did not turn out the way they planned. those two guys put out quite an effort and missed their mark. I was fortunate in many ways with this Auction. I got contacted early so I was able to get Comp'ed Entry and reduced Commission. I also am 2 hours away. The Experience was not All Bad. as a matter of Fact, had they attracted Bidder's it would have made everything complete. The COBRA that did $800K+ SOLD to the High Bidder. Several of the High Dollar Cars I personally believe were Bid within Fair Price range. I guess people see themselves getting into a higher Tax bracket with One Sale. to each his own. Me, I drove Back up this Morning realizing that why should I let my Car even run through and get bid to 2/3rd's of it's Value?. It is a beautiful sunny day here. Traffic was almost nonexistent. and then while seeing the city on the Horizon, a thought crossed my Mind. Today is 9-11. It is Morning time. 4 Years ago, at about this time, 2 Airplanes Hit 2 Buildings right over there..... Maybe just maybe, people are scared and feeling vulnerable since Katrina hit. they know our military is stretched thin. "Honey, let's stay home"! whatever the reason, it is ashame for all the folks who spent a lot of time and money traveling and shipping cars to this venture. perhaps "Kruse" should have made more than an "Honorable mention" of this show in their Auction publications. Like I said before. they had everything BUT the Bidder's. if they figure that part out, they will have a winning show on their hands for certain! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif will they attract The High Caliber car's they got this time? That will certainly be the other Hard item to return. Two Big Strikes. Recovery of this effort I believe unlikely. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

I'm guessing the 4 door Hemi car that the owner turned down 1 millon for 10 years ago didn't do too well. I thought there was someone that was going to pay 2 million for that car at this auction ? Maybe he got stuck in traffic.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
By allowing owners to buy back their own cars BJ still collects the 8% fee. (I think it's 8% of the selling price, isn't it?) Anyway, Craig Jackson makes his money either way. Any businessman will tell you that guaranteeing payment is just good business.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it's good business for Craig Jackson but my point was that it does nothing to help indicate true values on these cars when owners can bid on their own car. This weekend's auction is almost the same situation when the auctioneer can bid it up for the seller. I wonder how many of the cars were bid up close to their reserve because of this policy. But it doesn't show us if there are really 2 or more interested parties bidding on the cars. Regardless, the results seem to show that the timing of the auction was bad, the buyers are drying up or there were a lot of people out fishing for prices. Are there any auctions where the seller is not allowed to bid on his own car or the auctioneer bid for him? Just curious.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Does anybody know if Dons car ZL-1 #9 sold?

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Point taken. I'd have to say that "true values" is a highly subjective term. Serious auctioneers have NO interest in the true value of a car, they only want the highest possible amount that can be quickly extracted from each item.

"True value" nowadays seems to depend on the amount of "stupid" money someone is willing to fork over in a televised, highly emotional pressure-cooker situation (gavel held high, about to DROP). In that case, a car's true value often has gone out the window--and is thus re-defined upward. It may be "stupid" to pay $125K for a questionable Daytona Yellow '69 Z/28 but every guy who has a '69 Z/28 knows his car is now worth more because of it.

Money + ego + competition between bidders + emotion + TV cameras + beautiful cars + beautiful women watching + kids telling dad to keep bidding = a great and dazzling spectacle, good entertainment, and solid profits.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Mecum was a great auction not only were there good cars but people buying them as well. The best overall i have seen.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Z-L1 #17 was that the silver car auto?? If so when I left last night it was 4 cars back from running trough then they shut it down for the night. This silver car was part of the "Jubilee Collection" and the gentelman I spoke to knew nothing more than they purchased it in January and the COPO connection said it was the best of it's kind. I'd say it was # 2 driver condition from the few mins. I spent looking at it. Rich.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know if Dons car ZL-1 #9 sold?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was a legit, big dollar original musclecar it did not sell. What sold you ask?
1)A Hummer set up as a rescue vehicle with a 2,000,000 watt stereo and 40,000 strobe lights on it. It sold for $165,000.

2) a horse. yes, I said a horse. They had someone with a booth showing off some kind of fancy horse breed that looked like a cross between an Afghan hound and a shetland pony. It sold for $114,000 but not until it left the obligatory dump on the red carpet which really pissed off the guy with the Porsche Cup race car that would have served as the ultimate pooper scooper since it was 1 inch off the ground. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

I don't recall any actual musclecars selling.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

I noticed that some cars exceeded the low estimate, but did not sell. An example is the Z28 conv. It ended at 1m, which is higher than the low estimate of 750k. I understand that it did not meet the owners reserve, but why would an auction company attempt to sell a vehicle that they estimate would not meet the sellers reserve. Yes they get their commision, but I don't think it looks good for the company when they hold an auction and most of the vehicles don't sell. Shouldn't the lowest estimate exceed the sellers reserve?

Steve

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

To answer Steve's question about the reserve values. There is no formula to how the estimate and the reserve work. Otherwise it would be easy to figure out the reserve. Usually it is figured by past, current, and future market value of the auto.

Here is my input about the auction for what it is worth.

I spent the entire time at the Rand/Workman event. I brought 5 cars to sell.

The Guys have a great vision, great venue, and even greater taste in cars. The car quality itself was worth going for.

What they lacked was some organization (which would probably have happened to anyone the first time they run an event like this), but the BIGGEST problem was lack of bidders! Was it caused by the Date? Location? Cars?
No, it was caused by Kruse's lack of bringing in their bidders. That is why an experienced auto auction company is brought into an auto auction (although Kruse did do a good job auctioning the horse!)

I know Rand/Workman planned on it taking several years to build up a world class event. Why not have one in the financial capital of the world?

I think they also need to bring in a better auction house who can bring their bidders and some high quality lower priced cars to help get the bidders going.

By the way, at the end of the day on Sunday they sold quite a few cars.

Also, kudos for the $10,000 donation for 9/11.

I am looking forward to next year.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

68L89RAG: I appreciate your positive outlook and agree with your statement in it's entirety. you probably saw me wandering around with my son throughout the day. It was nice having an event like this so close to home. I believed it would be a great success or I would not have taken my car off the market for the last 4 months to put it in here. I would like to see them be successful as we simply do not have Auctions like this in the Northeast. I touched on KRUSE as the potential scapegoat for several reasons in my posting. several months ago I noticed this Auction was not getting enough Play in the Automotive world. Hey it's great that they covered the Bases with all the elite Money Papers and magazines. but are they the people that buy Cars?? some do I am sure but most consider it a foolish move investing in something that they know nothing about or only have a passing interest in. If I want to Auction off an Art Glass collection consisting of the finest works from Daum Nancy, Galle and L.C.Tiffany Studios, I would not advertise the Auction in "Hemmings Auto News". I also attempted to lure some friends up, but they were scared off at the high prices. Cars for $20-50K would have been HUGE there! sprinkle in the Big Money Car$ for entertainment. Kruse should have a list of Buyers that they work with. what did they do to attract them? whatever they tried did not work. Maybe they did not want this to work? Survival requires a Call for help to Craig Jackson! if they bring back the Kruse folks, It is certain failure. I did pick up on some scuttlebut that considering it is 2nd hand I will not delve into, but apparently KRUSE may noy be what it once was. we just were some of the last to know....

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

12bolt,

-------Your second to the last sentence hit the nail on the head. You, sir, get a shiny new penny. As I stated before, having this auction do well would have been great, but certain things lined up to prevent the chance of success. One of them, IMO, is Kruse, short and simple........Bill S

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Steve thanks for helping with moving my car, it was nice to meet you and don't think this mopar guy didn't eye your car a number of times.

Dave, it was also nice to meet you and your car was another fine example of Chevrolet at its best.

Like everyone that was there has said, the place, the food, and vendors were some of the best, but NO bidders for a great gathering of some of the best musclecars. Hopefully Rand/Workman can get it together and bring bidders to this auction next year.

Re: Rand Workman Friday update
 

Very interesting hearing about Kruse being involved in this auction. I am on Kruse's mailing list (not sure why...haven't been to a Kruse auction in many years) and I never received anything from them about this auction in NYC. I agree with others here, with the possible exception of their annual Auburn fall auction, Kruse has definitely gone down the toilet in the past few years.