Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Who were the judges here, the 3 stooges..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...y=6161&rd=1

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

It was a goodguys show, they look at quality of restoration. They could careless if it is a real or fake yenko. This car caused a stir at the milw. show last year. I believe it was a local milw. area car. Roger

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Its like saying a tribute band is better than the original https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/crazy.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

I'll keep my opinions on the car to myself... except to say that it is the car that I care about, not the name or investment value.

But, there are cases where the tribute band is better then the original... when the original was usually drugged up or drunk, therefore producing an inconsistent live show.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

I don't care how you cut it, there's no way I'd pay $50K - $150k for a glammed up Camaro!!!! Why not just get a nice BB? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

I'll get me a real COPO for that kind of coin!!!!!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

I saw that car at the GG show in Waukesha last summer. It sure looked nice, but knowing it wasn't real took all the thrill out of it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

JMHO

Blair

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

The original car builders, bands, whatever, CREATED and INVENTED what others feel compelled to copy..you can never take that away from them, good or bad they thought of it first and took a chance that it would work. Tributes and copys, even if better, are only improving on someone elses original ideas with little or no originality and risk...
If you put up a beat up old original Yenko against a mint Yenko clone and tried to sell them for the same money what percentage of the people would want the copy? I bet not many..
How about having a partied up Aerosmith playing next door to a polished up tribute band that copy there songs perfectly and charge the same for tickets, which place would be full?
The only time a tribute and copy come into play is if the original can not be had. period.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Even though our Y-Camaro is a bit on the *crusty* side compared to the majority of the cars on this site, I still get quite a few compliments from folks telling me they dig the fact I'm racing a real Yenko car...sure, I could build an el-strippo clone which would be lighter and quicker, but would it be as cool?

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even though our Y-Camaro is a bit on the *crusty* side compared to the majority of the cars on this site, I still get quite a few compliments from folks telling me they dig the fact I'm racing a real Yenko car...sure, I could build an el-strippo clone which would be lighter and quicker, but would it be as cool?

[/ QUOTE ]
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

It astonishes my how these guys take an ordinary camaro slap a few thousand into it and expect to triple their money by making it a tribute car!!!!

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

So going on the 'sometimes better than original' logic, how do you guys feel (no pun intended) about breast implants?

Think about it.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

The only tribute he is making is to his wallet https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif. With that said,the one thing I will give the seller a little credit on is that he has advertised it as a cubic zirconium, hopefully ounce it's sold it will not show up a few years from now as the real deal....

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[ QUOTE ]
So going on the 'sometimes better than original' logic, how do you guys feel (no pun intended) about breast implants?

Think about it.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it would create some back problems for me. personally, Id rather see them on a girl https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

It's not my intent to defend a CLONE vs a REAL car......but the cost of building the above parts and numbers correct CLONE had to be significant......however to see that $150K buy it now price is OUTRAGEOUS......

Chuck Sharin
69 COPO "clone"

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

The cost of something, the originality of something and the desirability of something don't really go together. If you wanted to build a Yenko clone with a correct dated X44 car, a correct dated 427 engine with all correct dated components, correct dated trans, rear, etc. it would cost you an easy $75-100K to build. Is it worth $100K to someone else? It all depends on the buyer. It's just as expensive(if not more expensive) to restore a car into a correct clone than to restore an original car that has some of the components already there. But most of the clones aren't even close to being correct clones and people still pay $30-80K for them.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

The real problem I have with CORRECT fakes is the fact they are doing it with CORRECT parts. These parts should be saved for the real cars!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

My opinion is that your free to do with your money as you wish as long as the outcome does not hurt someone and is legal. Parts are out there for ANYONE to purchase for any reason, even if it's to build a clone, or even put on display as part of a lamp. While we may all agree 150K is a large "buy it now" figure for this car, there's always a chance that someone out there is willing to pay the price. ----Only in America, don't knock it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[ QUOTE ]
The real problem I have with CORRECT fakes is the fact they are doing it with CORRECT parts. These parts should be saved for the real cars!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it definitely takes away from the available parts needed to restore a real car back to it's original state. So somebody will probably buy this car for some decent money because it has all the correct dated parts needed to rebuild a real Yenko or COPO.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

As long as you have companies reproducing parts then there will always be clones. It is now to easy to buy parts ie: stripes, emblems etc... to make clones. Just like it is to easy to buy parts on ebay. Now a days people think of the dollar value not the historical value.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

And lets be realistic about the term "clone" here.This car may very well have more original 1969 parts on it then most restored Yenko cars do.How many legit cars have no original sheet metal except the firewall and roofskin?How many have all that sheet metal replacement plus bogus "CE" code engines,and a ton of reproduction parts on them?I would say that 80% of all surviving Yenko cars are each made up of less then 50% actual original material.Most of the surviving cars were tubbed out race cars,re bodies,or cars with missing drivetrains and rust damage,where in the only original pieces to ever have been on a Yenko anything might be the Vin Plate and trim tag,and a chunk of firewall.We create this illusion that when you sit in a restored legit car that you are siting in in an original 1969 interior and closing real 1969 doors,while turning a real 1969 igintion key to start a real 1969 engine.In reality,80% of the time,we are sitting on seat covers made of plastic that was still in an oil well back in the middle east in 1969,closing a door made out of steel that was still under 100 feet of rock in China back in 1969,and starting and engine that was more likley then not under the hood of somebody's station wagon in 1969.But all of this means nothing because the car in question has it's VIN number on a registery list which makes it all legit.At least this guy claims to have started out with a rust free SS,which means that chances are all the sheet metal and undercarrage was with the car in 1969 when it was new,as well as more of the small hardware stuff that got chucked away from Yenko cars back on 1969.You are right that a clone is a clone,but the fact is that it is possible to have a clone with more real original parts and bodywork then an original car.Maybe to some people the might feel safer driving a car built off a rust free shell then one that was built by hacking 2 or 3 diferent bodies into sections and welding them together while trying to hide the handiwork.Maybe to some people,an original is more about being able to see the paint chip and find red GM primer instead of chinese metal electrtostatic primer under the paint or inside the trunk or where ever.

The Muscle car market is now joining the world of real collectables,in which anything worth big money is worth reproducing to exact specifications.what happens when somebody starts restamping VIN numbers?You think that these registries are keeping people honest?How about a guy who tracks a car off the end of the earth and then stamps a fake vin and cowl tag,restamps the hidden VIN on the car{it is hard to do but would be worthwhile if recreating a car like a HEMI cuda or ZL1 Camaro},then goes to the DMV and tells them a story about how he pulled this car from the crusher with his bare hands while nobody was looking back in 1972 and nobody but him knew the car has existed since then,and now he has posession of it,and it was never really crushed so he needs a title,and when they come around to check the car out,the car will look 100% legit.What heppens when that time comes?With these car going for close to 7 figures it is only a matter of time.Anything that can be created can be re created.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[ QUOTE ]
This car may very well have more original 1969 parts on it then most restored Yenko cars do.How many legit cars have no original sheet metal except the firewall and roofskin?How many have all that sheet metal replacement plus bogus "CE" code engines,and a ton of reproduction parts on them?I would say that 80% of all surviving Yenko cars are each made up of less then 50% actual original material.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rich...how in the hell can you throw out crazy percentages and figures like this ? I think I understand what you are trying to say but unless you have seen the majority of cars that are out there and inspected them this is just goofy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Of course these arent exact numbers,but based on what is available in the"restorable" marketplace,and what I have seen coming up on the marketplace since the late 80's,this seems to be the trend.There are many cars out there that have been sheltered since the muscle car boom of the 80's,and just how many of these are bonafide originals with minor restorations compared to reconstructions of totally destroyed cars,will always be unclear.What we do know is that even by tracking the progress of many of the cars belonging to members of this forum and cars they post about,we are seeing that pretty much anything with pedigree is considred restorable no matter how bad the condition.Add that to the tons of legit"junk" that shows up on Ebay and in car trader rags,and you can see how the credibility of resored cars could be called into question.When top dollar is being spent to buy cars where the entire body is broken in half,the drivetrain is missing and there is no title present,just becuase the cowl tag lists the car as a bigblock convertable or some other rare find,you have be realistic about what we are offering.How about that ZL1 Camaro that claimed to have the original body including the tail panel despite the fact that the entire rear clip was cut out and replaced with a donor car and the rear tail panel was reattached.I am sure it is a nice car nonetheless,but if an insurance company were paying to fix that kind of damage,you can bet the car would have a salvage title when it was done.Somebody will eventually buy that car and if they werent told otherwise,they would belive that the entire rear structure of that car was the same rear structure that was under it when it was a new ZL1 back in 1969,yet the rear clip of that car could actually have been from under the bck of any 6 cyl grocery getter.In the meantime though,owners of such cars will bash those who simply take rust free base models and dress them up to look like a more desirable version.Lets face it,we are talking about a hobby where guys will casually mention that a car is a "rebody",despite the fact that the construction of such a vehicle is in totaly violation of federal laws.With the introduction of entire new body shells for some muscle cars,we are going to have to look over our shoulders even more since that entire situation attracts more potential for fraud.

I was just venting a bit on those who have such a problem with"tribute" cars,and their value.They compare them to a "tribute band",but in reality some of these legit cars would be as similar to seeing a real band as would it be to see a guy up on stage claiming to be a famous performer because he now has a vital organ transplanted out of this famouns person's dead body.Sure there may be a little bit of that old celebrity up there,but is having their kidney really make you what they are?Thats what it is when you rebody a car then restamp a non orginal engine for it,then throw a ton of repop parts on it.This stuff doesnt bother the purists as much as some guy using original parts to make a bogus car for his own enjoyment.What a load.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Got your point. I guess there is no way to draw the line on when a car ceases to be a restoration candidate.Doubt we will ever get people to agree on something like that. I don't have a problem with clones and if people want to pay up for them I guess thats their business.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Like any car there are certain degrees of originality. To me the more original, the more valuable. I personally place a higher value on a survivor car than a restore car because with a survivor you know its true condition and what is original and what was replaced. Once a car is restored all the sins of the past are hidden unless you have a well documented disassembly and reassembly process. Cars that have a suspect past usually are uncovered in one way or another, and thanks to a site like this they are exposed for what they are or aren't.

Clones, tributes and now know as recreations certainly have a place. I am concerned that the really correct clones can or will be passed off as legit at some point. This is also the case for rebodied cars passed off as original.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Are we there yet? Been down this road a few times!

BTW Rich, the restamped plates situation has already happened. A legit buyer pulls this 'pulled from the crusher' car all they home to PA, never realizing that within a 1/2 hour of him the 'real' car is still with the 2nd owner from '73! The detectives are involved now, trying to sort it out https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

What would happen if, lets say a 140K mile car had a total rebody and a salvage title. The guy takes it to a non-title state and throws the salvage title in the trash. He now sells it to a guy in a title state who gets only a bill of sale and goes over to the DMV and gets himself a new title for the car. Now all of a sudden he has an original 40k mile car with a clean title...Is this something to be aware of? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

yes, and not just with old cars - it happens all the time with new cars too.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

That kind of stuff happens here in Canada as the east has stricter laws on used cars than alberta does and they flog alot of their garbage on us. Over the last few years it has benn getting better.
As far as the clone thing goes if you really want to look at it. If back in 69 the foundry is pouring the steel into the moulds and stamping out Camaro bodies with no designationas to weather they become yenkos or 6 banger grocery getters the "DNA" of all these cars are then the same, so what difference would it make to rebody a car with doner or nos parts?. I guess what im saying is at what point in the cars life does it officially become a collectable supercar?. 67-68 there was no difference from other cars of the same ilk coming out of the factory until they reached the dealership and suddenly the value triples!! And at that point just why is it that it stands out of the crowd and is "that" what we're here to preserve, i mean is'nt that why this board was created to preserve these cars?. Or is it the idea of these cars? To keep the lines clear on just what and where these cars are today so that the great unwashed know the difference and enjoy themselves whatever it is that they own?. Are we just being snobs to everyone else who dosent have a real supercar, or we just trying to keep things honest?.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Keeping things honest

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Keep it honest. Many a member of this board has expressed their 'thanks' for being tipped off that a particular car has 'issues'. No snobs here, just enthusiasts.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

As well as many a member's car has gotten very positive reviews on here. Even when they weren't a Chevrolet. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who were the judges here, the 3 stooges..


[/ QUOTE ]
Just because a real Yenko shows up at a show it should automatically win? There was no comparison between the restorations and the judges saw that. Now if you want to talk about "Three Stooges" then you should have seen what happened at the Niagra Falls Camaro show. A COPO that wasn't even finished beat a full frame off restored Yenko Camaro! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif Someone would have worn an old fashioned East Tennessee Dawg Whoopin' home that day if it were my car that got beat!


[ QUOTE ]
The real problem I have with CORRECT fakes is the fact they are doing it with CORRECT parts. These parts should be saved for the real cars!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Kim, nothing personal but what are you smoking? Those cigars must have been tainted with something for you to make a statement like that! I tried to sell a set of NOS in the box Walbro-Dupree fuel pumps two years ago to a guy with a REAL MOTION Camaro for $500.00 (market value at that time was $600.00) and he told me I should cut him a deal because he had so much in his car. He was complaining about a measely $500 bucks for a car that he was restoring when done was worth more than a 1/4 million dollars! Give me a break. I sold them to another guy in Florida that was building a clone car for $600.00 and he didn't gripe one bit.

Don't get me wrong (isn't that how a Billy Joel song starts off?) now there are guys out there with the "real" supercars that want the parts and will pay fair market price for them to make their car correct. However, it is the ones that think they are "mightier than thou because I own a supercar" that are spoiling it for everyone. I recently sold a set of those exact same fuel pumps and an NOS Motion ignition to a guy here on the board and I did cut him a deal because he has always treated me with respect, but I didn't make him a deal because he owns a supercar. If you have a rare musclecar be it a Motion, Yenko, Royal Bobcat, Mr.Norms, Hurst, or whatever, and you need that part just pay the price as they quit making this stuff a long time ago and I don't see them making it again anytime soon.



As for the prices of the clone cars being what they are, that is because the prices of the musclecars in general have gone to ridiculous heights as far as prices go. Come on, would anyone in their right mind give $2.5 million for a HEMI Cuda convertible they want to drive and enjoy when they can buy a clone for $100,000.00? NOT ME!!!

Also there are some guys on this board that own clone cars that are extremely nice and would be very hard to tell them apart from a real one if they were sitting side-by-side at a show. The one clone that comes to mind is a <font color="orange"> Hugger Orange </font> with white stripes Yenko Camaro (you know who you are)that is totally AWESOME! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif...............RatPack....................

Here is a picture I took of a Motion clone Camaro owned by a 17 year old kid. This car had all of the correct Motion emblems, originals not the repros, correct hood, gauges, etc. Are you going to bash a kid for something that he built using correct Motion parts knowing that he could never afford a real one at his age? I think not............

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

#'s, Codes, Politics, YUK. An equally restored real Yenko should beat a Clone, but many clones SHOW better than alot of legit cars. Great site here. Give me the MULE anyday.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

If you're looking for success, recognition, or gratification at a car show, you'll likely come home empty handed, regardless of whether you're driving a "real" supercar or a clone.

If you're upset your real Supercar got beat by a clone at a show, then you should likely go home and shine on your Supercar until it's as fluffy as the clone, or reconsider what the $4 trophy the clone took home instead, really means to you.

I think everyone is entitled to do as they please with their cars, restore/not restore them, clone them into something they weren't etc. etc.

The important thing is remembering why you're doing it, for love, money, or the pursuit of a trophy, don't lose sight of what you're true intentions are and you won't likely be disappointed. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

[quote Now if you want to talk about "Three Stooges" then you should have seen what happened at the Niagra Falls Camaro show. A COPO that wasn't even finished beat a full frame off restored Yenko Camaro! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif Someone would have worn an old fashioned East Tennessee Dawg Whoopin' home that day if it were my car that got beat!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the COPO was better?

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Are you sure the partially complete COPO was judged?

I wasn't there either, so I'm going on heresay too, but I don't think the partial COPO was judged nor did it win anything.

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

the partial restored copo was pretty cool looking.
there was a crowd around it all weekend.
there were lots of people taking pictures of it.
i thought the gold yenko came in first place, though not third?
i didnt know that they judged the partially restored car.
maybe they gave it a honorary award?
it was a real crowd pleasure...anyway it was a great show, great folks up there and the weather couldn't have been nicer...
i think they raised some money for charity as well!

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

RATPACK....GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT... THE UNFINISHED COPO CAMARO AT CANADA, DID NOT GET ANY AWARDS, AND WAS NOT JUDGED PERIOD !!!! MY SON'S COPO CAMARO GOT THE SECOND PLACE AWARD, AND YEH, HE IS ONLY 13 YEARS OLD. THE BRONZE 68 YENKO CAMARO GOT THE THIRD PLACE AWARD AS WELL AS BEST ENGINE, BUT THE PEOPLE REPRESENTING THE CAR WEREN'T AT THE AWARDS PRESENTATION TO ACCEPT ANY AWARDS. THE GOLD 69 YENKO CAMARO GOT PEOPLE'S CHOICE, AND THE DICK HARRELL 69 CAMARO WON BEST AMERICAN CAMARO FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW. THE PEOPLE THAT RUN THE SHOW SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO POSSIBLY CHANGE THE AWARDS FOR THE SUPERCARS, BECAUSE OF THE HIGH QUALITY OF THE RESTORATIONS, IT IS TOO HARD TO PICK OUT THE BEST. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS THERE, AND I DON'T THINK THAT YOU WERE. SO GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU SHOOT YOUR MOUTH OFF. THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT PEOPLE WERE NOT THERE, OR NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THEIR AWARDS. IT'S JUST EASIER TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN STORIES LATER!!!

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Atta boy Caleb... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif


One of the coolest cars I have ever seen. Of course the Gold Yenko and Joe's Harrell car are awesome cars as well. Cannot wait to see them at SCR8. Maybe at the track https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

Rat-Pack I stand by my statement. My point is why use a 512 block for a fake when a 454 block looks correct. Why use 178 exh mans. when any year would work. It dosen't make sense. What have you been smoking? Nothing personal!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Fake Yenko Beats Real Yenko in show
 

YOU'RE GOOD AT IT.... WHY CHANGE NOW ?????