HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I HAVE HEARD FROM 100 TO 300, ANYWAY TO FIND OUT HOW MANY MATCHING # 'S ARE STILL AROUND...? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP...

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I thought the Z-11 was a 427 ! Or do you mean the Z-16 396 ?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Anders

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

He is refering to the 69 Camaro "Z11" Pace car. He wants to know how many BB versions of the pace car were built.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Ooops !

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Anders

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Kurt S at Camaro Research Group is working on an article on the pace cars. He probably has a handle on this, although I believe the numbers are extrapolated as there is no actual documentation available.

Lynn

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

LYNN, THANKS, I LOOK FORWARD TO HIS ARTICLE, I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED, AND PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIME, OF COURSE MOST THINK ALL WERE BIG BLOCKS, SO MANY ARE CONVERTED THESE DAYS, I JUST WONDER HOW MANY ARE MATCHING #'S.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

There is no definitive number of them produced, since records were not kept which would allow you to determine cars produce by options. I would guess the numbers you mentioned are way low. I have owned five, and in past year I have seen twenty plus for sale (assuming they are real). My guess would be over 1000. You can extrapolate and come up with some number, but its only an educated guess because of the many unknown variables.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

We did a Pace car registry at Camaro Club some time ago and got a few hundred cars registered. Looked like maybe 5% or so were big block, which seems about right, 150 cars or so. Funny thing about Pace cars in particular. Pace Cars were doled out as rewards to performing dealers, and were sent on spec. In other words, the dealer got what they got. Since the Pace Cars got so expensive with RS / SS and Pace Car options, Chevrolet seemed to build the majority of them 350/300, automatic, PS, PB and not much else. No gauges, AM / FM, not even power tops many times. The higher optioned cars were most often dealer order cars. Cars with power options, A/C, Big blocks, all were probably special order.
Loaded Pace Cars, weather they be small block A/C cars with options, or big block pacers are surely pretty rare. But as mentioned above, no legit numbers are out there, and only common sense extrapolations can be made

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I'll guestimate the % of 396 pace cars at between 15-20%, or approximately 550 to 735 cars. Who knows for sure, but that's backed up with some large samplings of data.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I want to thank you for your help, it's hard to get a fix on these pace cars, i have owned mine for 7 years, and still learning something new ever day..... I have been lucky to get a second car to work on, and it's really hard to get information on it, I had hoped some of you guys could help, but it seems I've been made fun of about learning about my car,told to ''junk'' it, and put ''pimp '' on it, so I will try some other areas to look, but thanks so much for your help, and time on this car.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Was your Z-11 originally sold thru DANA...or do you have reason to believe it was?

Don't take the goofing here personally...the guys are just having fun...there is a tremendous amount of knowledge here and it looks like the've already given you some information, especially Kurt S. Have you tried going to the Camaro sites on the net? Try going here Kurts Site

Lastly. how about posting some pics of your car?

Have a great day. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

NO, My Z-11 wasn't from DANA, but my second car I just got was, it was a corvair. I'm trying to find out as much information I can on my car, and DANA.. I know, some dealers had alot you could get, but I find that's not the case with DANA, I was interested in the emblems some dealer had on there cars, I've heard DANA had some, but I have never seen any, so I thought you guys could help out ...I'm learning as I go along, I know alot of you have the knowledge, that's why I asked.. thanks for your help, I hope I can do the same for other's when i know more.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Try going here: Kevin Suydams Site and His COPO Dana Corvair

He has an email link that you can contact him at, also. He's a nice guy...and will respond to your emails. He may not respond right away...but he will!

He also has a huge and very https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif collection of all the great muscle cars.

Hope this helps...and let's see some pictures! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

"Pace Cars were doled out as rewards to performing dealers, and were sent on spec. In other words, the dealer got what they got. "

Fairy Tale. Dealers ordered Z11s just like any other car, for stock or to customer specs. Program cars were around then too, sometimes called "Brass Hat" cars. Ask any Chevrolet dealer in business back then and they will tell you Z11s were sale-proof. Many of them were in stock long after the '500'. In researching ZL1 #4 Dan Palchanes provided an August '69 newspaper ad for Hauser Chevrolet. The ad also shows their Z11 "list $4429 now $3679." A family member that still has the '69 SS purchased new in October '69 remembers the dealer trying to steer him to their Z11. Another dealer in the area told me he DX'd his in February 1970 and was happy to get rid of it. A wholesaler in business at that time remembers seeing dozens of festival Z11s at Midwest used car auctions in June.

Z11s are hot now but they were a tough sell new.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Kasey: the Super Car Workshop guys just recently finished a DANA Nova...not for sure if it had (or has) a DANA emblem or not...maybe bkhpah will chime in...

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

You guys have been of great help, thanks for your time to inform me about my cars, i hope i can be of help to other's someday when i know what i'm talking about.....

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I bought my Pace Car in '81 from the dealer that ordered it new. He hated the tires and blew one up, he then changed all the tires out to from the Speedway Special to a Polyglass tire. He also was upset that the car got to him right before the race, he wanted it for some promotion. It was number 640491.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Ok, well I know we've chatted before on this but I wish to emphasize(sp) this on your numbers with the 15-20% factor you use.
"Approximately 550 to 735 cars": To me that seems right if you count into effect the number of states and people per state to the number of people in demand or supply on these; and let's not forget about our good neighbors up north: Canada(Canada is not MY specialty on the #'s there). I live in California and have followed these cars since 1982. I will tell you that my best guess is that 99% of every car I saw here in the past 20+ years was a 350 SBC.
Van Nuys made a ton of these in respects to the 396 offered. On Van Nuys cars in my history of viewing/finding/locating these, I have only come across about 10 actual 396 VN cars(and these I will tell you were #s cars)and mine being one of them.
Simply put, include the Norwood build #'s of these, and I'd would guess about 150(maybe closer to the 200 mark possibly) or so were assembled TOTAL, combining the two plants, with the 396 and then you have to break it down to the HP & Transmission options available. To me, any HP rating or Transmission combination coupled to a 396 originally in a Z11 is rare enough!
Finally I wish to tackle your last suggestion:"but that's backed up with some large samplings of data"....
Sampling:
The definition is as follows:(Websters Dictionary)
a small part selected as a sample for inspection or analysis <ask a sampling of people which candidate they favor>
We need to ask you to define what it is that you suggest your samplings on: Total 69 Camaros produced? Convertibles produced, 396 engines actually installed at GM originally?
Lastly, you state a "Large" sampling of data: PaceCars for 1969? or.....???
My interest here is moot as I do not have actual records, but only what my trained eye and mind have been exposed to over the years seeing these cars. Yes, I do Love these cars, have had mine for over 20 years. I cant say that Ill ever see 150 of these together in one place, so how would you place your number so hi at 735 396 PaceCars?
All in do respect Kurt, I just would like to know your friendly opinions on this...Thanx! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Pace Cars were doled out as rewards to performing dealers, and were sent on spec. In other words, the dealer got what they got. "

Fairy Tale. Dealers ordered Z11s just like any other car, for stock or to customer specs. Program cars were around then too, sometimes called "Brass Hat" cars. Ask any Chevrolet dealer in business back then and they will tell you Z11s were sale-proof. Many of them were in stock long after the '500'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fairy tale, OK!

Surly you base this opinion on more then hear say from dealers. Dealers are the absolute WORST source for information. I am not going to get in a pissing match here. All I can say is I had more then three hundred 1969 Pace Cars in The Registry, and extrapolate my numbers from those registered's. I also have restored half a dozen real cars including one legit big block we gave away! As far as other information, I did work on 2 complete issues of 64 pages dedicated specifically to Pace Cars. But to be honest, I have forgotten a tremendous amount. So maybe I am wrong, just disregard my previous post.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

I recently purchased a Z11 and am wondering where to find more info on them? I have some questions and would like to tallk to someone very knowledgeable as I restore it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dennis

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

The owner of the Camaro business I was involved with for 15 years also owned a Chevrolet dealership for much of that time. He ordered, received and sold a 350/4-speed Z11. I have copies of all the paperwork including the dealer order. Their store was hardly a Hi-Perf hot spot; they probably sold as many trucks as cars. Only Chrysler built new cars on spec in those days.

This July will mark my 30th year of involvement with the 1969 Camaro so I am no rookie. Back in those days a 396 Z11 was hardly unusual. There were easily 6-8 of them in this small area and a few are still around including one with 4-speed/AC/tilt. 39% of all Camaro SS had 396 engines so it is no stretch to estimate 1000 or more 396 Z11s.

Those of you new to the hobby need to understand what a Z11 looked like after the warranty was up - bleached interior, flapping quarters, shredded top. And when the '74 embargo hit you couldn't give away a 396. By the late '70s most of them were really junk but nice parts cars due to the RS stuff, 12 bolt, etc. As a result we parted out a number of Z11s; ask anyone that went through the basement of our building about the pile of orange interiors we had.

Don't estimate anything by what is around today. Many of those cars were gone in less than 10 years.

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

"Many of those cars were gone in less than 10 years."
I can definately agree to that statement.
God, I can really remember those gas station lines when that Gas crunch hit. Sitting in the car with the folks was quite the ordeal! People were nearly fighting each other over: Gasoline! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
SO, I will agree that it is possible that there were more than seen. What area are you located in that you saw so many? I also assume GM dumped those remaining INDY Parade Cars right after the race? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: HOW MANY Z - 11 396'S --WERE BUILT ?
 

Milwaukee.

There were plenty of them around here. I briefly owned one in 1979, a 350 4-speed. I think everyone has a copy of the invoice. When it turned out to be a bit nastier than I thought I flipped it for a nice profit. Ed, an Irish kid from Chicago bought it. He may have learned from the experience as I hear he has done well in the Camaro biz ;-)