Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I like many others on here am upset that GM is not doing anything about the GM Chevrolet & other cars, list that Jim Mattison was trying to accomplish. I do not see what it would hurt for this list to be available to those that are interested and willing to pay for it?

So, with that thought in mind, I would like to suggest that we as a group of interested and mostly GM car people, instigate a petition and present it to GM. It would show them that their customers have a big interest in this list. If they can do it for just the Pontiac people, then why not as a group let them know just how many others are really interested in this matter?

I feel sure that leaders of most of the other GM car forums would be glad to have their respective members sign it. Perhaps if we take the rest of this upcoming year to get as many signatures anywhere we can and then present it to GM, perhaps that would convince them that there is a need for this to happen.

There is power in numbers and perhaps that is what it will take to get GM to open their records to Jim M or someone else. I don't know Jim M. or anything bad about him, but perhaps someone else may have better luck. In my opinion he would be the best one to do it, but perhaps he has a unknown enemy in GM, or Chevrolet, that he is unaware of that is scuttling the project?

I would think that all GM collector car guys would be interested in this coming about. What ever it takes to get this accomplished should be given the old college try. If enough of us sign it then perhaps GM might realize how important it is to history.

Please chime in on this subject if there are other reasons or theorys about this that may affect this happening?
I think we should put the upcoming entire new year as the end of time to get signatures everywhere we can. If we get as many as I think are out there, GM may go ahead and release the info we desire. Either that or we all band together and threaten to boycott their products! (Just kidding)

Chime in and let us know what you think?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Pantera

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I would sign it. GM already has my info from my recent Impala purchase.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Count me in

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

No brainer. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'm in on this one. It would be great to get some informaton on my car. I'm the President of the Camaro club in the Minneapolis area and if you were thinking of having a petitions signed. I would willing to bring it to every show that we put on and that I attend and hand them out to the members to bring to all the shows that they attend to get as many people as we can to sign it. Like you said the more signatures we can get the better chance they will see the importance it has. If you guys decide to pull the trigger on this drop me a PM so that I can get the dirt on what we need to do to help out. Oh if you guys would like to check out our club web site it's www.northstarcamaroclub.com. We have a cool screensaver that most of you might like. Have a Merry Christmas everyone.

Jesse

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

That worked really well to save the Camaro too... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif not to be the sceptic, but if GM actually listened to what its customers wanted, we wouldn't be stuck with the NEW car choices from them that we have now...I appriciate the idea Pantera, as I'm sure everyone here does, but do you really think they're gonna care much about what a list of people with cars they sold 30 years ago have to say? I'd sign it too, but unfortunately I don't think it will make much difference.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'm in. Larry I will PM you with respect to my connection within GM North America (very high up) and how we can possibly leverage it.

I believe one important key here is to also demonstrate our current commitment to the company i.e.(our daily drivers). If they are approached by a bunch of guys with old cars, it would be hard for them to understand how they can make money from this endevor.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Hmm. Daily driver? Sorry to say I am not driving a Chevy. Look at their website. Yuck! All the more reason they need to hear from us. JMO.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

It doesn't have to be a Chevy. Any GM product will do. The key is for them to understand that we are people who make them money.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'd pay for any records they had on my car. Heck, I'd volunteer to help organize the data if they needed it. This is for the best interest of the hobby!

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pay for any records they had on my car. Heck, I'd volunteer to help organize the data if they needed it. This is for the best interest of the hobby!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the problem. It must be in the best interest of GM or at least approached in that manner.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Pantera and others (except Camarojoe who is also a realist like me)
You might want to spend some time on another noble enduever. GM could probaly care less about these records that effect .000000000000000001% or less of their market. They are losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year. They now have only 24.8% market share and will be overtaken by Toyota next year as #1 seller of cars/trucks in the US.

GM just released a report 2 days ago they are are planning to sell 95,000 FEWER vehicles in first qtr 05 than what they did in first qtr 04. Probbaly one reason why their stock just took a dive in the last few days when just about everyone else is up.

GM sold bonds several years back to help fund their losses on their pensions plans that are just plain hemmorghing(sic). The SEC announced severla months ago they are now going to list them in the junk bond category. This company is in bad shape.

BTW, Ford sold off every bit of old parts tooling to a private company several years back and said it was not worth their effort to sell them as the profit was miniscule part of their daily operations. One of the mustang mags reported that Ford actually lost money selling old parts as the cost to keep up the sytem was more than the profits.

If GM was in the black you might get something done.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

WOW Dave, You and Joe really got it down pat! Could not have said it any better than those two guys. GM is hanging on almost for dear life and they are going to do something to help the hobby? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gift in my life time. I don't even like their cars anymore. How about just giving us an SS truck to compete?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Posted by John Z, August 3, 2004 on the CRG site:

"This subject has been beaten to death on this and many other Camaro/Corvette/Chevelle forums for a long time, with all manner of weird conspiracy and liability theories being espoused, all of which is simply BS. Chevrolet has commissioned massive internal searches at least twice (I know the people personally who headed those efforts), and contracted with Jim Mattison's ASC firm (which owns PHS) three years ago to find the 30-40-year-old records, and nobody has found anything (and I doubt they ever will). GM is not in the business of saving and cataloging old paper records - they're in the business of selling cars and trucks. This subject makes great chatter at cruise-ins, but that's all it is - idle chatter and weird theories; don't hold your breath for some miraculous treasure trove of old records to surface. If anyone had found them, they would have surfaced by now."

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I can appreciate both sides of this, but also think it will land on deaf ears at GM. I have a friend who talks with Jim quite often , and there is rumoured to be a warehouse full of old documents that covers some 800,000 sq feet. Manpower is one huge issue with regards to searching whats there, and at the end of the day, they might not find what their looking for. As for GM's take on this, they are very concerned that if found and released, they would be third party to a ton of Class Action lawsuits. The suits would be forthcoming from every person who bought a cloned Vette, Yenko or Copo, and just about every other falsely badged car the lawyers could find in their class action claim.

When the car carriers hauled these cars back in the day, there were documents to prove what options the cars had as they were shipped. This was a must for insurance claims so the underwriters could settle any damages that occured while in transit. That alone would prove the cars had paper and these are the documents rumoured to be in this storage facility. The big problem is that GM is not about to let anyone rumage through those files and potentially open a world of law suits for them should they be discovered. Can you imagine how many claims would drag GM into court stating that they (GM) had them all along when they denied them existing? Everyone would be saying that GM could have prevented them paying to much for a would be clone car if its was proved not to be real.

I'm sorry guys, but I would side with good luck on this ever happening. George Zapora at GM Canada said to me and I quote, "If they did exist, they would never be released because of the damage it would do to GM after all these years of claiming they don't exist". He seemed to think that even if they did exist, they would never be released. I think he is right, and as connected as Jim is, he might not ever get this done. Don't get me wrong as I am all for it. I would love to see the US owners get the same paper that Canadians have been fortunate to have had all along. It would sure flood the market with cheap clone cars though, and there would be people jumping out of 425 / 435 horse cars all over the place.

If only!

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif They might exist....But right now I think of them the same as Santa Claus,Bigfoot,and the Easter Bunny!


Steve

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

What?!! Santa Claus is not real?

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

...I agree with Hylton..
...WHAT IF...included in the petition we all offered to convince (5) people within the next year to purchase a GM automobile!!
...
just say we get ...what ....100,000 ...200,000 signatures
...Do you think that having 200,000 additional salesman out in the local neighborhoods talking up the GM products would make a difference?...I Do.
..What would be the additional profit they would make if they sold 800,000 to 1,000,000 more cars next year?
...
...and GM...if your reading this ...sit down and run the numbers yourself behind closed doors
....this could be a whole new advertizing campaign... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif
...but what do I know ....I'm "just a salesman".

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I think it would be great to have GM info, but lets look at the big picture. If those documents were released to the public, are we aware how many fraudulent vehicles would be found and how many law suits would be started due to that information? And that could bring suits against G.M. for not releasing the information sooner (possibly, I am not a Lawyer) Not to mention the fact that a percentage of reproduction car parts are sold with the intent (knowingly or not) of people making cars to suit their tastes, and or to misrepresent vehicles as a different car (R/S to Z28 or SS 396 to a COPO ect. I spoke to a legal person at Chevrolet (name withheld) and they stated off the record we will never see those build lists. There is way to much money involved in aftermarket parts and such,
so consequently I don't think it will never happen.......Joel

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I personally don't think we'll ever see any information on Chevrolet cars. Regardless of whether it exists or not. And I don't see why GM would ever be worried about being sued over it. Why would GM have any responsibility if someone bought a fake/cloned car? The biggest risk might be the new privacy laws but that information could be masked out before releasing information. GM seems to be in a downward spiral right now so documenting 30-40 year old cars is not something they're worried about. But I'll keep my hopes up, it never hurts to be optimistic.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Maybe we should promise them we will quit buying Toyotas and Hondas.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I think a good idea on the petition would be to list the make and model of your "old car" as well as the make and model of your "current driver(s)." For example: Jon Smith, 69 Camaro and 2004 Yukon/2001 Impala. Then they would get the hint that as vocal supporters, our opinions and purchasing power can and will affect their bottom line.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe we should promise them we will quit buying Toyotas and Hondas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see here:

My parents Toyota Avalon Made in Ky or TN not sure which plant: 143K miles (seniors who travel alot)and no problems whatsoever other than new tires and brakes and a alignment or two. (..they are seniors after all). Replaced the battery last week because going to Va. to visit my sister and her husband this weekend. Battery still worked fine but did not want to take a chance. Car still rides like a new car at this mileage.

My wifes 2002 Camaro (V-6) made in Canada. Now has 21k on it. Front engine seal replaced at 6k miles, power window switch at 10k, Traction control sensor replaced last winter. God forbid what this car will have done to it by 143k miles like my parents Avalon.

This is why GM is going down the tubes.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Everyone here is bringing up valid points,but when I talked to Jim M. earlier this year,his biggest concern/frustration was to try & enforce GM facilities throughout to STOP throwing out the records they have left into the garbage.
It doesn't matter what they ultimately decide to do with them in the future,if all the remaining records are COMPLETELY gone by then.
Every day,somebody,somewhere in a GM Building is throwing out a Box filled with old paperwork.And No one over there really knows what's in them,or even Cares. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Most "Excellent" Point Rick.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I really thing IF and that is a big "IF" that they would be foolish in this ecomomy to alienate any old customers. This would actually cost them zilch so I would only hope that they would have to set up and take notice if we get as many signatures as I think we will in a years time.

Pantera

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Sorry but the Statute of liminations would prevent that.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

This is true. I have a friend who is a consultant at the GM Tech Center, and while he is not involved with cars as a hobby, he told me that he has seen dumpsters full of old records being pitched. He also told me that some of it wasn't that old, like from last year.
Since he is a consultant, and doesn't work for GM, his job is to figure out how much it costs GM to build a car. Seems that they don't have a clue. GMAC makes more money than the cars they manufacture. The pension benefits cost more than the profit made from cars an trucks, and since Honda and Toyota don't have the UAW to deal with, (no offense to any union guys), but that saves them tons of cash.
Bottom line is that GM has bigger things to worry about.
Andy

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'm in

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Whitetop...I would still prefer to keep my car AND repair dollars with GM...or Ford...even though they all have tentacles worldwide...they may have problems but ...I would rather see this company stay an AMERICAN company...maybe I'm just getting old or something...but I'm sick of seeing old American companies get bought up by overseas concerns...just because Toyota et al have plants here doen't mean it's all happy happy...it's still Toyota...JMO https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

If they released the records just think about the all the lost sales on 66-67 Nova SS emblems, Z-28 emblems, 427 turbo jet emblems, 67 Chevelle SS emblems and so on. It will never happen, unfortunately.
Brian

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Someone at GM must care a little bit about this subject, because I contacted General Motors Media Archives last year and was able to get a copy of the original factory to dealer invioce for my '77 Z28 (sorry, not a supercar!), free of charge. I was told they currently only have access to some of 1977 and all of the 1978 to present invoices, and that they were stored on microfilm. Let's hope that the pre-1977 stuff still exists!

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

This is what the nay sayers have to realize. GM to some extent is already doing this service albeit with the newer cars (post 77). It is also doing it in Canada as everyone knows. Do they receive lawsuits as a result? No. True they are not as exposed however I do not believe this is an issue if we can also sell the responsibility to be good corporte citizens by trying to reduce fraud.

I don't buy them getting sued as a third party over a bad deal. Yes, some deep pocketed fellow who is embarassed he bought a fake car may also include GM in his lawsuit just like someone includes them today because a drunk driver was driving one of their products. This lawsuit would obviously be without merit.

Larry, let's do this.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Hylton...exactly. I don't buy the lawsuit thing either.

Who's forehead do we sign for this? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Count me in too,But I think there is a bigger and better way to make a statement over at GM and that is to forget about some papers with a bunch of signatures on it.Why not come up with a standard letter that we could print up off the net with a place to sign our signature at the bottom and also include the current GM vehicles that we own and include the address to send it to that will reach the suits at GM and flood them non stop with hundreds of thousands of letters.Do you realize the manpower it would take to go through all the letters,it would drive them nuts to the point to where they might have to do something to stop it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif
What do you guys think?

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whitetop...I would still prefer to keep my car AND repair dollars with GM...or Ford...even though they all have tentacles worldwide...they may have problems but ...I would rather see this company stay an AMERICAN company...maybe I'm just getting old or something...but I'm sick of seeing old American companies get bought up by overseas concerns...just because Toyota et al have plants here doen't mean it's all happy happy...it's still Toyota...JMO https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]WOW Bob, You even sound educated! Belair for President! Our first Italian President. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif I just don't care whether imports are better than American made cars...if they can be called that any more.. ...it's the export of dollars and companies that bugs me.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Well Bob, You are right. We hardly produce nothing here anymore. Pretty soon the word FACTORY will be removed from our dictionary. I am not for Corporate tax cuts when Corporate sends it over seas anyhow! I have a son leaving Jan. 8th to get ready to go to Iraq. What a disaster this is turning out to be. We are really very upset about this. Another war that looks like no one can win.https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I like the idea of the letters to GM but we need to hold off until just before the end of next year when we present the huge petition to them. It would have more punch with the powers that be. Man would I like to be a fly on the wall when the full BOD brought the subject up.

I have one though about the petiton and or the letters to GM. I think is improtant that we don't want to create a free junk mailing list for GM with out getting what we want out of the deal.

I think a Name-City-Occupation or Job description & number of GM cars owned and perhaps a place on it for a comment by each person would be all that should be considered. That way we can protect the signers priviacy with out getting their mailboxes flooded with more crap. I would encourge a place for a phone # just to lend a touch of validity to the petition with out giving them a huge free mailing list.

I have had many postive responses from quite a few other fourms and I think we should let each interested leader of any of the other forums collect signatures at every car show and event they can attend and then set a Dec 10, 2005 return due date to me, so that we can present it to GM just after the first of the year. That will give us a entire year to be sure that each one of us has a chance to sign one, in person, some where in the country. If we should get as many signatures of those that are as interested as I think, I would hate to have to pay for all the paper.

I don't mind undertaking this as long as I can enlist others help along the way. I am getting lots of very postive responses. If they see how many are showing any interest in the past then perhaps they will get smart and offer this service. I doubt that anybody would mind paying $50 for a litte more for the info they need. I would even pay double that. Goodwill to your previous customers is a good way to build new business and they also will get a free junk mail list out of the deal. I don't see how that could hurt their bottom line.

Pantera

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Not to get off the subject here but we have a '98 Regal and a '01 Venture. We have not had any problems with these vehicles (knock wood https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif) except for the front seatbelt in the Regal. I cannot bring myself to buy an import!

BTW I'm in.