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-   -   Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=76409)

4MyChevelles 03-05-2004 10:16 PM

Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Motion and Joel Rosen fact’s
This information is from an un- named source an owner and the previous owners of more then one motion car.
I do have pictures of the cars that I will post later in time.
This post is long but I find it to be very interesting to anyone that has questions about both Joel and his Motion cars..

This is how I heard it .

Some of you may know but I’m sure there may be some new things here and remember opinions are like ……..everyone has one

Joel Rosen Founded Motion Performance in 1957 and it was’nt until 1966 that he had proposed to Baldwin Chevrolet a collaboration.
Rosen has success in both road and drag racing in fact holds over 30 worlds records in those events.

Joel rosen had said …simply put. The idea was to allow people to buy a brand new hot rod from a dealer. He used to mention the fact that he could give the people a street machine to run in the elevens .that’s the way he’d run his car and the same way he sell the package.

Motions package exchanged cast iron for aluminum . THE THREE-BARREL CARB’S WERE REPLACED with a large four barrel, Suspensions were tweaked , transmissions were transformed and an over drive added known as Hone a Drive which was a mechanical over drive so those sometimes as high as a 4:88 gear could be reduced to a 3:70 and make it useful for the highway…..”Pretty Cool Joel” The man was thinking ahead…..

Rosen once said this..If a guy’s already buying a special car and he does’nt get what he want’s from a dealer ..if the dealer can’t go far enough , he wondered why not ?
Why not give him everything he might want , So we ( Baldwin - Motion) were the first out there to put everything on a car a buyer could want and still sell it through a dealer.
That was the proposal to Baldwin.
There was a Standard Package developed and also had a catalog.

The full catalog price of the Phase 111 options on the 69 Phase 111 427 corvette in which here are some production numbers…12 were sold in 1969 and less than 5 known to exsist. Back to the option price ….$7,642.00 and the list included…
The cast-iron L-72 same 427 as in the Baldwin Motion Camaro.
The 950 cfm Daytona 4 barrel , Mr. Gasket aircleaner, not all phase111 at first but evevntullay using transistorized ignitions. You would get those fat tires flared fenders , side mounted exhaust pipes and above all 500 hp on tap…what a vette !


There is one Phase 111 69 Camaro that I’ll post pictures of that came with no tach …hmm when do you shift this thing …well what Joel did was added a rev limiter to the ignition system because the Man that ordered the car wanted a hood tach and at the time it was not available …the the rear spoiler was an olds spoiler not one made by Larry at lengendary fiberglass..the Camaro in which pictures will be posted sold for 9,330 in 1969 and has only 5,990 miles on it with the dealer sticker still on the window. Pontiac had a hood mounted tach right ? but for some reason it just would’nt work so in went the rev limiter by Joel himself.

And as far as how many 69 Phase111 Camaros in existence it is said that there were only 5 total ever made…of course that don’t count the ones out there that parts were purchased and installed by the owner or the amount of Clones that float around .
The same man that bought the Camaro also bought his wife a Chevelle that he gave to his Partner because his wife did’nt care for it too much where is it today ? last known out of the country and told the car is no longer in existence….

I would like to mention the 1970 Chevelle SS Baldwin Motion Phase 111 454
The one I have information and pictures of ..
First thing,this one here cost $4,998.80 plus the car to build
Now the full Phase111 package included replacement of the 396 with an LS-6 aluminum headed Special cammed 12:1 compression Engine requiring 103 octane fuel to run backed by a Muncie M-22 lot’s of suspension parts exchangend for the super bite suspension ..The Three Barrel Holley sat on top an aluminum intake manifold, Twin electric fuel pumps , Headers along with a list of other pieces…with this you got 500 hp @ 6500 RPM and 500ft lb or torque @ 4800 RPM the 4 speed had a reverse lockout and the Hone-A-Drive overdrive unit to make the 4:88 final drive a much more road friendly 3:70 to make a 70 mph hour trip a little easier @ 3000 rpm and with those side pipes must have sounded like a jet sneaking up on you.

Well this as much I can write in for now but I’m sure to add tid bits here and there as I post those pictures im sure your eager to see about now…
I almost can’t wait to hear the feedback on this and please do add the feedback as you see fit…it took awhile to write this down and look forward to your input.
One last thing………

How many Motion car were made all together your wondering well believe what you want . this is not an exact number but will give you an idea….
Joel Rosen and Baldwin Auto Company produced much fewer than 1000 Phase 111 cars of all varieties and we all know that the accounts of survivors get’s exaggerated.

GMH454 03-11-2004 05:56 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Could you put in a box for whether the reader finds it misinformation.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

bmnewbie 03-11-2004 07:00 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
thats out of otis chandlers book. i wonder why he sold all his cars? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Belair62 03-11-2004 07:06 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
He kneaded the dough !

4MyChevelles 03-11-2004 07:30 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
No I can't but i sure would like to hear people hollerin at me ...I have collected Baldwin Motion articles and adds for years and nobody wants to share information likes it's a great kept secret..I really don't understand it and yes most of the info did come from otis's book and I also have a load of old car Magazines from 1969-1978 where alot of the information tells things differently .
It's hard to get the right answers SO PLEASE do correct any Bad information That would not insult me I would like to learn anything and everything about these Awesome cars .
To be honest I figure I would post Information and what ever was wrong would be corrected by someone who knows better..Nothing wrong with that

GMH454 03-12-2004 01:52 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
It may be out of the book but does not mean its correct,
"got rid of the 950 3 Barrell
Went to alumunium....
Not all cars had Hones
etc etc

GMH454 03-12-2004 01:55 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Did he sell the Porsche 917, I know he had it before the muscle cars, he used to race it, did he keep it.

4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 05:33 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
No got rid of the 850 3 barrel for the 950 Nacsar 3 barrel for the 454's I beleive and the hone a drive was antoher 395.00 in 69 Motion Cars were packages and I said COULD include and i didnt say all of them ...Muncie m22 would get them only if you were to drive the car home 4:88's sure would have been tough on the highway ..The list goes on and on of what could be in those cars

GMH454 03-12-2004 07:28 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
With due repect, from your first post:

a)"the three-barrel carbs were replaced with a large four barrel "....."the 950 cfm Daytona 4 Barrel " ????
Now you say 950 3 barrel ....what about the 1050 3 Barrels that were part of his scheme at times, or anything else on his shelves.

b)"exchange cast-iron for alumunium " infers he replaced heads and even blocks as a regular part of the "Phase 111 "packages. Once more it was how deep are your pockets.

c)"cast iron L-72 same as in the Baldwin Motion Cars "....same bare block maybe, but often cam, heads, intake, carbie, ignition, sump, etc etc were changed from that of a L-72.

d)"with this you got a Hone-A-Drive" ....infers once more, it and the M22 were standard to the Package. Truth is Joel gave you what you wanted, manual, auto Hone-O-Drive etc.In this paragraph I am looking really hard for a "could or may ", and as they are not there the inference is that they were standard.

The theme from the post is that there was a "PACKAGE ". In reality I doubt that any two cars were ever the same.

I don't want to go through the rest of it but the above is not in isolation.

Not having a go at you, but you are part of a trend on this site. In the old days people dropped into this site for unusual rare and above all quality information. The site has a very good reputation. People checking this site, will quote what they see here as a source of facts . General discussion is great but info should not just be colorful and informative but should be factual as possible and not open to misinterpretation.

As I said sorry it was you who put it up, but your post was symptamatic of a trend.

I will now withdraw to the heat and wilderness of central Australia to contemplate my fate.

Terry
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 02:52 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
See it like you must but when you take a Car off the dealers floor or the owners hands and you install a small or large amount of performance parts In a performance shop that the dealer is associated with along with a set advertised price with other options if you choose It's called a package .... Never said any two were the same...But I do remember saying something like "Why not build the customer what they really want and still have a factory warranty"and for the most part No two people are the same ,
Aluminum switched ...Did I make it sound as though something other than engines parts were exchanged ?
Make changes in what my post reads that it fine https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif but please do not Compare me with anyone else https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif
I never said that joel or his crew used only certain parts and nothing else ...Motion Performance had a Catalog and a large one at that ..Motion did superchargers also BUT Not on all Motion cars ! Don't get me wrong.

4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 03:22 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
May I ad that information I have is not only from the Chandler book but also from a large amount of resourse magazines from when the Motion cars were new also From a man who raced a Motion Sponsored car who in fact also worked for Motion ...i'm going out to Long Island this weekend to talk with His friend Because he is no longer with us today. His friend has more items ,pictures and information after cleaning the garage out of the man I'm speaking of ...Once again what I put in this post is my opinion based upon information given to me by people who were there and others that remember the cars. 1969 was many years ago and memories fade I'm doing the best I can so bear with me and if you know more about the cars Please add the information to the post i'm sure it can be useful to someone

4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:25 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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Reference photos
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:26 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:27 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:29 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:30 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:31 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:32 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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4MyChevelles 03-12-2004 06:33 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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JoeG 03-12-2004 10:25 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Someone posted the 1969 Baldwin/Motion catalog, which mentioned options and the PhaseIII package ,which was Motions attempt to offer a recognized( standard total performance package), on which the customer could modify to his taste or pocketbook --JoeG---The Hone-o-Drive was not available till 1970. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 05:30 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
I spent the day in long Island today ....found out alot of stuff about the cars and the dealership .and the people that worked for Motion ....came home with a catalog and other cool stuff including original emblems..really tired right now just got in but will include some of what i was told about Motion by People who lived close by there before it was Motion.....also stories from a former employee who joel sponsored

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:24 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
JoeG odered through Baldwin your absolutely correct but if you had a Motion car you bought earlier that year or even say in 67 Motion would have been more than happy to add one on for you ...make it easier to get around town for a nominal fee ..now does that make the car not original I guess is up to the owners or buyers opinion...They are the words of A prior Motion Mechanic...I asked as many Questions about these car as I possably could and I beleive that most of the people that I spoke too would'nt pull my leg...Great People on the Island spent hours talking to Dealership owners ..People let me into there garages to look at there cars(not Motions) ..gave me a rundown of the neighborhood I just had a great day wished I lived in such a neighborhood myself.
I'm going to post a few pictures of what I seen and brought home there is writing on top of the Motion Products just to avoid scammers from downloading them and using them to pretend owning and selling on ebay and other sources

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:28 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
1 Attachment(s)
Heres one ..once again to keep the scammers from listing these on ebay and other auctions pictures are small and printed on top of ....

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:30 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
1 Attachment(s)
and another there pretty clear pictures

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:32 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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Another

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:34 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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The Mother load

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:36 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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Heres a cool picture of the Motion Building before it was Motion

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:45 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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A side by side shot of Motion 30 somes years apart My Favorite

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:50 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
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The rear of the Building something you dont see much

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 10:54 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
I have asked many people about Baldwin Chevrolet and only in Long Island did i get an answer to where it was, used to be.....and what is is now Today..

Mr70 03-14-2004 11:00 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Nice finds.
What year was that picture taken of MCN Glass?

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 11:02 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
ooops at looking at the pictures one says
1320 Racing @aol.com its GO 1320............

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 11:05 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
I was told was in the 50's but i'm going back to the Island i'll ask the Guy again if he remebers where at in the 50's ...

4MyChevelles 03-14-2004 11:07 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Also any Members want pictures I posted I will be happy to email them to you in a larger clearer scale..
If i took them myself

John 03-15-2004 01:16 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
...I guess the new "tune up" shop made that sign because they got tired of all the old near sited people stopping in and asking
...."How much is an oil change" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif

4MyChevelles 03-15-2004 01:26 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
The 14.95 for an oil change was so tempting I had them change my oil while I was there...it was even new oil they put in https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

hvychev 03-15-2004 07:56 AM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
Wow it sounds like you had a good day there. Great detective work! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

JoeG 03-15-2004 08:29 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
[ QUOTE ]
JoeG odered through Baldwin your absolutely correct but if you had a Motion car you bought earlier that year or even say in 67 Motion would have been more than happy to add one on for you ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry didn't mean to be so vague--I did mean the Hone-o-Drive was not offered from Motion until 1970.I had found out by word of mouth from Motion in '69 that an overdrive was being offered later in the season/next season.Don't know of any pre-'69 cars with an overdrive installed,but there could have been like you said.--Nice find with all the Motion Pperformance memorabilia--JoeG https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

JoeG 03-15-2004 09:02 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JoeG odered through Baldwin your absolutely correct but if you had a Motion car you bought earlier that year or even say in 67 Motion would have been more than happy to add one on for you ...

[/ QUOTE ]



Sorry didn't mean to be so vague--I did mean the Hone-o-Drive was not offered from Motion until 1970.I had found out by word of mouth from Motion in '69 that an overdrive was being offered later in the season/next season.Don't know of any pre-'69 cars from Motion, with an overdrive installed,but there could have been like you said.--Nice find with all the Motion Performance memorabilia--JoeG https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]------ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gifTried to edit first reply , but computer said time expired--guess I was too slow putting my quarter in the slot.

4MyChevelles 03-15-2004 10:16 PM

Re: Baldwin Motion information In my Opinion
 
1 Attachment(s)
Heres another little treasure


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