COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I am in the final process of taking apart a COPO Camaro for resto, I wanted to know if anyone knew where I could take it to have it dipped near me in KY to remove the old paint and gunk and I have seen where some re apply the E-coat primer?

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Joel is there a RediStrip near you ? Pros and Cons on chemical/alkaline stripping...

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

If the car is never going to be a daily driver(like I would assume) then the chemical stripping process like Redi-strip is the way to go. We had my JL8 car stripped by Redi-strip and then they hit it with the wire wheels and it came out pretty sweet.
http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/jeffh...barecar013.jpg
http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/jeffh...barecar009.jpg
http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/jeffh...barecar011.jpg

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Jeff,

What does it roughly cost to dip a car?

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

This whole dipping thing is new to me, im use to doing California cars that you can degrease and sand and spray. The only rust in this car was the quarters and they have been replaced with GM stuff but the trunk floor and a few other spots show a little surface rust no scale and the car has been painted several times. I guess the next question will be should I remove the trim tag and such if I dip ?

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Tony, I sent Jeff's car out and it costs $1,000.00 for the shell and about $100.00 per panel.
Rich.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

A friend of mine give me a # for a place called Metal Cleaners in Lexington.The # is 859-255-3700.Ask for Bill Fugate.I have not tried them yet but, he had a convertible top frame cleaned and powder coated there.The frame looked real nice.Hope this helps.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I think you will need to remove the trim tag prior to dipping. I had my car media blasted and was very happy with the results. I recall some very good discussions on the Camaro and the Chevelle board about dipping. We might want to do a search on those boards in order to make the best decision for your particular situation.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the car is never going to be a daily driver(like I would assume) then the chemical stripping process like Redi-strip is the way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do we have to take into account whether the car is a daily driver or not when considering dipping? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

If you have to remove the trim tag to dip, doesn't that reduce the value of the car?
Jeff, I noticed that yours is removed. Is there a way to reattach it like originally installed?

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Reinstalling a trim tag is just another part of restoration. With reasearch and an original set of rivets it will be undetectable. I have done dozens all from cars that have been dipped or blasted.
To say that a car that has been dipped can not be a daily driver is not true too many people think your car is going to magically continue to turn into a pile of rust after being dipped. After a car is dipped treatments can be applied so that it will neutralize the dipping process and to treat and coat the metal to stabilize and protect it.
I would be more concerned with leaving rust untreated inside a frame rail or between panels!!
Rich https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

MikeA, I'm just saying that if the car was a daily driver and you had it dipped, you would definitely want to make sure you get all the metal covered with paint of rust proofing in all the nooks and crannies. And Joel, this car is also a mostly rust free CA car. The driver's floor had a little bit of rust, but the rest of the body is incredibly clean. Blasting the body will end up with media stuck in all the crevices where 2 pieces of metal come together and you'll spend as much time and labor getting it all cleaned out if you can get it all. Plus, once you've exposed the rust with blasting, you still need to neutralize and treat it. The chemical stripping process already does that for you.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I personally am a big fan of plastic bead blasting. when done right they can take the car down to the original primer and stop there. I have had vettes done this way and then used a "DA" sander to do the rest. There was little or no dust in the car and I was able to see where stress cracks in the body were and repair it.

A talented operator can take the paint off layer by layer if that is the way you wanted it done.

The plus side of this process is that the plastic beads deform and do not shatter and they can be picked up and actually reused by the operator. You can then do a high pressure blow out of body crevaces and you still have a easy job to clean up before painting.

I think that chemical diping sould be a Last choice and only if the car has a great deal of rust-out showing. I am affraid that 10 years down the road the dipped cars will start to rust out again. They lose the rust inhibitor in the nooks and crannys that the factory dip process puts on them. But this is where you have to decide what you want your car to look like and do you want to have to do it all over 10 or 15 years down the road.

Of course that beggs up a even bigger question and I guess it is all a matter of "if" you plan on just fixing it up just to sell, or to keep it for yourself and your family for many years to come.

The rust in body cavitys is a real problem and I would think that you could use mirrors to locate problems and then do them by hand. If you have a nice LA car with little rust showing, why not spot blast the rust that shows and be sure it is sealed well and see how it holds up.

Someday down the road the undipped cars could be bringing a premium. Also they are making all kinds of progress in every facet of restoration and who knows what will be discovered in the future?

Guys we all need to remember one thing. These cars that we love so well are going to outlive us. We are just collectors & caretakers of a piece of history. I for one want to enjoy my modest collection for the few years that I have left. When my health gets bad I will sell them to someone that will take care of them and let them be shown. I sincery hope that they are still around 200 years from now. I have no children to leave mine to but if you are lucky to have someone that will love them as much as you, then they will be responsable for your cars when you are gone.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I'm adoptable https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif I couldn't figure it out. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Larry, I have cars done 18-20 years ago that were dipped and have no problemn with them even today. I understand your point of view and respect it but think of it this way.

The rust inhibitor you speak of is doing no good even if the slightest bit of rust has begun in those nooks and crannys, and sand blasting does'nt get in there either, and pouring all the tea in china (naval jelly, rust more, and the likes) in there to try and neutralize it will not do as good a job as submersion. And hear's why, in order for the "rust more" to work it must encase the the affected area and remain wet for 18-24 hours. And the jellys are too thick to get between panels and it only "converts" the rust and does not remove it leaving a bunch of rust tombs (or time bombs) in the shell.

Dipping a shell in an alkalyne solution eats away and completely removes the rust even from the areas not visible to the eye. And the best part is that it stays submerged for 3-4 days letting the chemicals do thier job. The alkalyne is not thick like the jellys and can creep in everywhere leaving nothing but clean metal. Once the shell is neutralized from the alkalyne you then can shoot epoxy primer into the seams letting it run out, completely enveloping all spot welds the on lap joints. Also as added protection after the car is painted you can repeat the process with a liquid wax you spray in the hidden recesses. This wax is also self healing meaning if it is scratched it will cover the exposed area protecting it again.

Also the rust inhibitors used by the factory are not as good as the products we have at our disposal today.

So would you rather, given the choice have a car restored looking pretty on the outside but with some rust, however slight hidden in the seams and unseen areas waiting to rear it's ugly head, or have a car that is restored looking pretty on the outside and knowing you did the best you could to preserve the integrity of the inner structure where all the rust has been removed and better rust inhibitors reapplied over clean metal?


Just something to thik about. Rich. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif


P.S. please excuse the spelling and run
on sentences https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Rich I see your point of view on this. You are very correct. I was thinking of the car in question that was showing very little rust that it in some way just might be worth more as a unrestored (dipped) timepiece. I am more of a corvette man even though I have a couple of Camaro's I do not run into the rust problems that those of you that are in the northern states have to deal with. Most of the dipped cars that I saw back when I ran my shop were left like a beer can and so thin that you were afraid to pop the clutch on one or it might flex the quarter panels too much and leave a dent in them.

I am a little behind on all this as I quit messing with collector cars and went SCCA Vette and Can-AM racing back in '80 and of course there are more and much better ways to do things and with better products avaible today.

I still love to see a survivor car left alone till it just has to be totally disasambled to protect it.
Almost all of my cars are low mileage midwest cars that are just grimy and not rust buckets from the northern salt on the roads.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Larry, you're thinking of cars that have been acid dipped to reduce the metal and lighten the cars. This type of dipping just strips the old paint and bondo off the cars. The metal does not lose any of it's thickness or strength unless the car is nothing but rust holding it together. Even on rust free cars, this method of stripping is far superior to blasting with sand or beads. Just look at the pictures I posted and you can see how clean the entire body is. I think in the end you will have a better finished product with stripping vs blasting.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I see what you mean. Way back when that I first saw the process the people doing the diping were Idiots and they used too strong of solution I guess. Sounds like they have learned alot over the last 20 years. (shaking my head when I realize that much time has gone by)
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

I do hate to see the vin and cowl tags being removed from anything though, even just to dip it.

Now just ask me something about a Valkyrie motorcycle. Those I know something about. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Talk about overkill and wasted $$, IMO.
For a little rust, I'd just blast the area and move on.
Soda or media blasting works great for stripping paint.

You don't need the metal to look perfect and virgin to paint it, you just need to prep it properly. Just like any normal high $$ paint job.

So there's a little surface rust hidden inside some area (say rear frame rails). Where's it going? It's not like the car is going to see salt and moisture to help activate the rust. Look at the underside of the dash and see how (surface) rusty that is and it isn't like it's falling apart.....

Now, if it was a rusty hull that had bulging seams, then I'd dip.
Roger Gibson restored many a $$ car, he's only dipped one last I knew. A L89 raptop, say I think it's still around. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

With all due respect Kurt I dont think its overkill, this is a very rust free very rare mostly number matching car and the agreement with the owner is when completed I will be showing the car around to create more business for myself. I have restored several Camaro`s and owned many and feel confident I have progressed as the years go by and can stand proud with the best. I want this car and ever one after to be a reflection of my hard work and attention to detail and want people and customers to know I went the extra mile. I also want the car to be as high a quality on the underside and up under the roof skin and in places that you will never see but you will know its done completely and correctly. would you not want you car done that way. I want to be one of the few that can be recomended without question to do a Camaro or what ever and the customer have total confidence in the work I do. I guess its called pride and yes it cost a little more.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I'll admit I don't post very often, and my opinion may not carry much weight, but I tend to agree with Kurt. Dipping a car that was reported to be so clean, does seem to be overkill. IMO a survivor car is way more intersting and valuable than just another restored car. I hope this rare car won't be over-restored like so many I see.

I am presently looking to purchase a new muscle car project and would choose a clean survivor with a little rust over a restored car with shiney paint. In general I am always worried about the quality of bodywork under shiney paint.

I love reading this forum and find everyones opinions interesting and informative.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I don't see any harm in it either way...you don't look under the headliner of a survivor car at a show..and it's not a survivor after it's been restored anyway...

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I was wondering when you dip the body my guess is the insulation under the headliner gets ate up too....how do you replace that?

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Eddiey, yup, any putty and sound deadener is gone. Dip a hood and I have no idea how you'd fix that.

It's not cut and dried. It's not like dipping is the best way to prep a car if it's being restored. If it is, then I guess Brian, Gibson, Tinnell and all the others have been doing it wrong?

It removes items that the factory installed and will be hard to replace. It is one option, great for rust. But I know of some cars that didn't come out the better for it (it leached out of some crevasses and messed up the paint).

The owner's call, but I'd never have my cars dipped. Both are way too solid.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Kurt...... Thanks for the answer I always wondered if that kind of stuff could be replaced.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Ed all those sealers, sound deadener and hood flutter compound can be replaced with out much trouble. If you have any questions as to how send me a PM and I'll let you know. Rich. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I will not dip any cars that come in here. Too many fix ups over the years from dipped cars. I would like to see the dip/ecoat process though that I have heard about. This is the only way I can see a possible good alternative. Right now I will stick with media blasting.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

Since this post started I have been talking to the owner about the dipping process with E coat or sandblasting. We have had good and bad expressed about both from many well respected people like yourselves so I have decided to leave it up to him. I think I would rather dip if the e coat is applied rather than deal with the sand issue when the car goes to the paint shop, seems like you never get all of it out of the little nooks and crannies. I can work with it either way so we will take that step soon.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

The media isnt really that bad if you roll it over on the roticery a few times and use air to blow it out. Its a lot better than paint falling off or discoloration at the seams later on.

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
We have had good and bad expressed about both from many well respected people like yourselves so I have decided to leave it up to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right Joel, there are good and bad points about both methods so it really does come down to personal preference. I think as a restorer you'll probably need to try both methods at some point in time so you know what to offer your customers. I've seen how good the dipping process works so I wouldn't have it done any other way. I think some of the earlier dipped cars may not have been properly prepped which led to problems. If you look at the pictures of my car after being dipped and cleaned up, I don't see any problems with replacing the roof insulation since it's so easy to get to. Most of the old insulation is usually rotted, moldy or eaten by animals anyway.
]

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I guess there is no sure fire way to do it.Its not an easy road however you do it. I just got done stripping a 70 nova body with aircraft paint remover and i just kept telling myself this is relaxing and it only took a month of sundays to get done https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: COPO dip!!!!!!!!!
 

I took the headliner out of the COPO car a few days ago and man it looked like a pack of mice had been living up their. I am also doing a RS Z/28 and its at the body shop, I went over a few days ago to check on it and man I see what the aircraft stripper deal looks like and dont want any part of that myself. I asked why the aircraft stripper and he said not bad enough to dip and way to nice to blast. It seems the car had been painted once on everything but the quarters and it had two coats plus the original.