1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Did anyone who was at Barrett Jackson see the driver quality 67 Baldwin Motion Phase III black Camaro? When I looked at the car it was in the post sale lot with a price of $69,995.00 on the window. Many things appeared correct on the car and some didnt. The real kicker was the letter on the dash that verified the car for what it was by Joel Rosen, if my memory serves me correctly it stated "after doing extensive research on this car and from examining the many documents provided to me from former owners I am satisfied that this is indeed a 1967 Baldwin Motion Phase III Camaro which makes it a very rare car due to the limited amount produced in 1967, Joel Rosen" So whats the story, anyone see this car or know of it? If it is real how come it is priced $100,000 to cheap, and why has no one bought it? Charlie?
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I saw this car about 2 weeks ago for sale at $68k and was told by others that the car is suspect and was originally a small block car and nicb and previous owners say it was never close to motion.. the letter is a copy of one from another car.. I thought it sounded real nice though, would be a great driver to have fun with.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I believe that is the car that had two letters. One that it was and one that it wasn't...Cool car though.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Charley,
I didnt see you at the auction, saw Bill wandering around...the very first thing I drooled over that was there was the Yale bikes.....I got some good pics to prove it. If you need any help with your new piece of motorcycle history let me know as I believe I have some printed literature and general history on these bikes, no doubt yours in particular. I have a friend that offered the seller more for those bikes then what they sold for a few months back, if you ever get tired dusting it let me know and I should be able to set you up with a buyer for profit.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Are you talking about this car? This one was on eBay over a year ago. I think it's from Texas.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Hard to tell from one photo, the one I looked at had vintage magnesium 5 spokes that to a degree became a benchmark in the industry. The car I looked at had the correct Motion emblems on the rear portion of the front fenders just above the cross flags and the body line. A third emblem was dead center on the rear spoiler, only visible from behind. The valve covers each had a emblem, "Motion". The car in your photo seems to have a blue interior while the other was black, also the baffled type side pipes were on the car for sale. I am not positive but I think the scoop on the hood was red. Things that cant be seen in your photo is the car had frame connectors added, as well as bolt on traction bars which was odd since the rear axle housing still had the bracket welded in place for a passenger side traction bar. It had mono leaf springs, did Motion add muti-leaf? The hood had the correct underside structure as an original, not at all similar to the current reproductions available. Also had solid motor mounts and the driver side mount was taller. Had a correct BB heater box, which it and anything else discussed here could have been added at anytime. The hood pins seemed correct and had the right placement. Overall, everthing I mentioned here could have been added to the car in the photo, the interior color change seems like it would have been a major change with no benefit as far as proving the car to be a Motion. The car also had the correct hood springs for a lightweight glass hood. Charlie, I am sure you noticed the letter contained the VIN, but that also could have been nothing more then some trick work with a copy machine. Short of contacting Joel for a re-verification I dont see a way to decide the cars pedigree either way. The thing that lends non-credibility to the car is why priced so far under current market for a true "Baldwin Motion" car, which would also increase the desirability and value over a "Motion" conversion from another dealer or private individual. If it is real we all missed the boat. Anyone know an approximate number of 67 Phase Three cars to exist with documentation?
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Sounds like it was a car dressed for auction as the "Motion" emblems were not used in 67. Probably not a correct resto or the car was later sent to motion for work.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Is this the same car that was sold at the kruse auction in indiana? Was bought, and shipped to owner in OK. Then later bought back by kruse, was not real. Roger

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

not sure if it is the same car but there has been a black 67 Camaro dressed like a Motion car bounceing around the country for sale at diffent locations. The car I am thinking of has a lot of issues.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Joe,
If this car is a fraud which it sounds like, I would think that Joel would take issue with the forged letter that is displayed with the car with Joel's signature. The letter looked genuine enough, I have several printed Motion items with Joel's signature, from a visual perspective the signature appeared real. If the letter was for another car as Charlie said, I would think more then one law is being violated for adding in the VIN from this car, and since the car is being advertised and or sold in different areas of the US across state lines it becomes a Federal issue. Anyone here capable of asking Joel about this situation so this can possibly be brought to a halt before someone shells out the $$$$$ on a fake? If this car is already known as a fake on the circuit how did it end up at Barrett Jackson to begin with? Does BJ have any type of screening process on these cars? After reading about the LS-6 Chevelle Charlie had posted on and now this car, why is it that BJ is not flooded with litigation? I didnt see this Camaro go across the block but after seeing these bright light bulb announcers in action I would bet they described this as an actual Motion car, if they even knew what a Motion car was. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif I would think that if Southebys or Christies were selling fake Picasso's they would not be in business long. With the value of these cars approaching fine art at some point the pedigree of the car and the accuracy of the description will have to be correct and concise or it is just a matter of time before the big classic car auction firms go under due to unethical and illeagal transactions. Any thoughts or opinions on this?
Thanks,
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Hello Motown. Here is a picture of a 67 Blk Camaro that I have. Only the picture.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Another picture. Nice to warm up to on these cold mornings.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Lets look at this also. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifMr Motion, Do you own this car? It looks like the car the someone posted earlier in this thread. Sharp car, is it a true Motion car? I see no emblems as pxtx said, also no sidepipes, did the 67 Motion cars have them? I wish I would have thought to take some pics of the car at Barrett Jackson to post here. Which was the correct configuration for a 67 Motion Camaro, the dog dish or Torque Thrust? This looks like a nicer car then the auction car, how long ago were these taken?
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I heard the announcers from BJ on Speedvision say that they are describing the cars as the owners list them. They have no responsibility to the facts of the cars, just what the owners advertise them as. Some of them are fake but only disclosed if the announcers could figure it out. I agree, BJ needs to do their best to protect the buyers who put a lot of faith and trust in the auction house.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Motown, no I donot own this car. Some of these Camaros could be had with the 67 corvette sidepipes from Motion, but then no two cars could have been exactly alike.
Tony

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Mo:

I believe this is the car you are interested in:

67 Baldwin Motion at Auburn


Cool car, even if it is a fake, if you could pick it up for say south of $40,000 and drive the snot out of it...

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Well there you have it! Chaulk another one up for the Supercar Police! A perfect example of the strength in numbers addage. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif This web site and others similar has made it increasingly more difficult for the fakes and fraudulent transactions to take place in this hobby. While there may be many here that could determine the validity of this car and others like it, there are also those who could have laid down honest funds on a dishonest car. It is a shame that cars such as this are still out there being represented as real where sooner or later someone who is new to this hobby will be taken in by the car, the letter, and I am sure the hype that is being sold with the car. This situation can cause someone with good intentions coming into the hobby to forever be soured against it. While it is common sense to do research on anything to be purchased, the research in this case would be the blessing of Joel which this car on the face seems to have. Only buy digging deeper or being a part of this website can the truth be known in this particular case. I am sure this car has been or will be added to the ever growing databases many have of suspect vehicles. Good job guys on keeping another mutt out of the purebred stables. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif
Thanks,
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Here's an old magazine photo taken on front of Baldwin Chev back in the day. One car has a Stinger hood with "4-2-7" emblems and the second car has a SS hood. No sidepipes.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Here's another magazine photo taken probably on the same day. Joel Rosen in the middle and Dave Bean on the right. Don't know who the other guy is. Maybe Mr. Baldwin? Note the Stinger hood and "427" emblems on the scoop.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Here's the first (I think) '67 Motion SS 427 conversion car on the cover of the June '67 Cars Magazine. Tahoe Turquoise, SS hood, "427" Vette emblems on the hood, began life as a 350 car. The article discussed the L88 transplant under its hood.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Some of the '67 "Motion" cars seen today have the '68 Impala style SS 427 emblems pasted on all over. Not saying that they aren't real Motion cars but those '68 "SS 427" emblems tend to go high-dollar on eBay. Yes, guys could have gone back to Motion, etc., in '68 with their '67s and had the '68 "status emblems" installed.

Sure would like to hear from Joel Rosen on such things. Too bad he doesn't offer a "Here's the truth" symposium at the SC reunion. That'd be worth the price of admission!

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

If you were fortunate enough to be able to attend SCR6 then you could have asked Joel yourself. He did answer a number of questions, although I don't recall anyone asking him about emblems. He did talk about a ZL-1 powered 69 Motion Camaro. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I gotta' attend the next SC reunion. How cool would it be to meet Joel Rosen in person. Oh, and I just sent for the SCR 6 photo CD the other day.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I like the window of the dealership.
FANTASTIC FIVE
SS427 CAMARO
SS427 CHEVELLE
SS427 CHEVROLET
SS427 CORVETTE
SS427 CHEVY II
James

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

That car was real one of the few. to bad it sold to some lucky person in ohio somewere.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

one owner wants it back real bad supposiedly so bad that he is trying to tell the guy it isnt real even though he has a letter from joel saying it is a real car.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Motion2, are you saying the car that was at Barrett Jackson is a real car? A former owner wants it back bad enough that he is telling people it is not real? If that is the case why did he not buy it back while it was at BJ? How about filling out your profile so we all know a little about you?
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

i am saying that the car at barrett jackson, the baldwin that was in the corral had a real letter from joel with his letter head and all. i am also saying that there was a rumor that a former owner wanted it back so bad that yes he was telling people it wasnt so he could get it back. the car didnt go for auction it was in the corral.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Okay, so the guy who owns it now and has a letter from Joel Rosen is supposed to buy a story that the car isn't real after all? If I was the current owner I'd be reluctant as h_ll to part with the car under these circumstances. I'd probably reconfirm the car's pedigree with Joel Rosen and put the rumors to rest. But that's just me.

And yes, I understand that this is commenting on a rumor. It just has a fishy smell to it.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I thought LV bought this car when it was at auction last year and determined through NICB and previous owners that it was never near Long Island and the auction company took it back. I know this was discussed on the board a while back. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

-----Unless the car did sell at B-J,it is still held by the same California dealer that bought it from Kruse. He told me that because of a dispute with the original owner who wanted it back,that Kruse had to buy it back from the individual they sold it to. At that point Dean K had just bought back his company from E-bay,and sold the car cheap to wash his hands of it. According to this dealer,Joel wants nothing to do with this car or its paperwork now as he has been threatened with litigation if he says it is an original car by the original owner who was willing to lie about the cars history just to get it back.
-----All of this seems pretty far-fetched,I agree,but Im just reporting what I was told. The dealer involved here is well known and has a good reputation.........Bill S

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

The dealer is Chip Gerst. Well known, yes. Reputation, YES! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Chip can be reached at 714 658 3148 , if anybody wants to talk to him directly.

Colin

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Weird story...so let me getthis straight..the dealer says the original owner will sue Joel if he says its a BM car ?

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Hey, if you have it figured out, would you mind explaining it to me? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

If I had a BM Camaro I would sue Joel too to make sure no one would think it's real .. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

NOW I get it. Sure wish Don was still around so I could get him to say my cars were not Yenkos. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

This is absolutly ridiculous! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif This whole conspiracy theory just dont fit! Even with my sometines warped and twisted perception of things I cant find a spot outside the box to stand! The whole concept is based upon the idea of one of the original owners wanting it back........so bad he is going to threaten to sue the only man on the frigging planet who can turn a $15,000 driver Camaro into a BM car, so two things come to mind, nobody who can think outside a straight jacket would threaten to hammer the goose if it lays the golden egg, and even more absurd is the fact that if the previous owner knows the car is a BM and wants it back, now that it has a shadow hanging over it why not just BUY IT BACK! 250,000 people who attended Barrett Jackson could have bought that car, probebly for less then the asking price of $69,995, which if it is the Baldwin Motion this owner claims it to be, he could buy it for about half of WHAT IT'S WORTH! So, concoct a story like this to buy back a car that cant be documented because you threatened the source of documentation which means it will never see full value......when all you had to do is BUY IT BACK! Who the hell is the former owner, Tuttle? These guys are smoking better weed then I have ever seen, maybe the only reason I can see through this BS is because I didnt Inhale! The whole thing is ridiculous, this last week has been like going to the Comedy Den, first you got a guy trying to claim a car as being stolen from him and he wants it back, at the same time all the previous owners to the car are scrathing their heads and wondering why if this idiot wanted to go to prison so bad why not throw a brick through a post office window, at the same time another fool is convincing the world his old car is a fake to make it worthless all the while it's FOR SALE and he could have it at a moments notice to spend the next five years trying to convince the world it's real! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif Were these two guys related? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif Somebody get me a bottle of Crown Royal quick, I need some clarity in my life! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif
MomanMadtown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This whole conspiracy theory just dont fit!

[/ QUOTE ]
That's it!
The car was bought by the man on the grassy knoll https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif