Motion phase III Vette emblem? (help needed)
 

I know that there is a huge amount of knowledge on this forum and I have been trying for days to locate this emblem that belongs on the rear of my '69 Motion Vette.

So far I got lucky and found a brand new "SS427" Impalla emblem locally. When I held it up to the back of my car, the holes that had been filled in with bondo lined up perfectly. Now I need to find some of the original Ford GT? emblems that Joel used under the SS427 Impalla emblem. So far, all of them that I can find, are thiner in the stroke of the letter than the ones that are shown in the article in Car's Magazine (Aug 69). This is the last piece of proof that I need to verifiy this was the same car that is on the cover of the afore mentioned magazine.

http://www.motionperformance.com/magazine/69motvet.html

If anybody has access to 67 Mustang GT emblems or a pic of them from back then please let me know. I have been told that these are what Joel used and yet all of the reproductions I can find are not the same. I have been told that they are a first design or early 67 GT emblem and then they made a skinny GT emblem which is all that I can find now. Thank God that I don't need two pair of them. Of course I would take them if I can find some.

(I am posting a pic of the original GT emblems that came on my '70 Motion Phase III car but they are different from what is on the back of the '69 SS427 that was Joel's first Phase III car). These are the correct emblems for the '70, as they are still on the car today.

Thanks in advance, to all that take the time to read this. I realize that I am asking for a Ford part on a GM forum but they are a part of the past too and it is ok if we admire more than one car maker's products. In fact I used to run a used Car lot called Super Cars here in Tulsa OK. I loved all of them. I had so much fun back then. All of the cars of the late 60's through the early '80's were fun.
Please post if you have any knowledge you can share on this subject.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem? (help needed)
 

Larry, I'll see what I can find out to help and I'll keep an eye out on ebay as well. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

I think after a week of searching the net for somekind of 1 st design mustang emblem I think that I have found a emblem that more looks like the one in the magazine articles. It looks like a 65-69 Pontiac GTO grill emblem. I think that Joel must have cut the "O" off and then cut the small bar at the bottom of the letters that linked them together so that they were one complete emblem instead ot 3 seperate one's. If anyone has a different thought about this or want to suggest something else, please let me know? Just as soon as I can locate one for sale I will be able to cut it up and see if it lines up with the holes that have been filled in on the back of my car. Here is a pic of the back panel above the tag where the emblem was removed and filled in with bondo??

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Pantera,
Cosidering I dont know much about Corvette frames maybe I can help with the GT Ford emblem. I am currently restoring a 68 Team Shelby Trans Am Mustang, #2, I have accumulated a lot of Ford and mustang parts in the process. I have several different designs of the GT emblems, I will take some pix tommorow and Email them to you.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Here is one showing the holes that have been filled. The white looking one in the center at the top all alone is where the burgler alarm from the factory was filled in.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

one more without the ruller

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

I would agree with you Larry.

Here's a comparison: The Motion Corvette rear you speak of vs. a '67 GTO grille...

There is a definite slight flare outward in the "T" width, from its intersection toward its base visible on both emblems.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Looks to be the exact same scrip design, if it wasnt the one it sure could be. I would think they would have used a GM emblem over Ford, I will check with Jim Mattison as he is the owner of Pontiac Historical Services and may know if the GT emblem is Pontiac. He also ran the COPO department at Chevrolet and was good friends with Don Yenko, he may know what Motion was up too, or discovered the info since with the Historic Pontiac research. I will give it a shot tommorow.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Thanks guys I am glad to hear that.

If anybody has a broken GTO grill emblem in their junk box I would like to buy it just to see if it will corespond to the bolt holes that are filled in on the back of my car. From what I can see it must be only one bolt per letter? At the top R of each letter. Of course there were no pins to locate it at the bottom since it had a thin metal strip that holds the three letters together. I asked Joel about it but no reply so far. I think I will pose it to Gary the Painter as he must have had them off to paint the Black stripe on the car for Joel.
I would be suprised if anybody else bothered to research this back then as it was "THE" only one made by Joel this way. In 70 they came out with the 454 and when He made this first 69 car, nobody knew that they would have the bigger motor in 70.On the 70 GT cars he used a 67 Mustang GT emblem (see pic of my documented 70 Phase III) No doubt about what this one is off of.

That was the my problem. I spent two weeks looking at Mustang GT emblems on the internet and here in Town. Finally some one said they thought it looked more like a Vega GT emblem (but they were not built in 69) so that started me to look at any of the other car makers that had the GT models and that was a dead end. Then by accident I found a site that had every emblem for cars back then by maker and I went through every 65 to 69 car till I noticed the GTO grill emblem just by accident and realized why he used it.

It is the only one that comes close to matching the SS on the 427 impalla emblem above it. also it is the right height to boot. all he had to do was cut the brace off at the bottom of each letter and use the GT and it looked good. they probably came loose everytime you washed the car though with only one bolt holding them on. (I guess I will find out but nowadays I have some good glue to hold it still.)

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Evidently Motion used more than one style of GT emblem, because the Corvette Azrapse posted is definitely different than the ones on your car. Thats not to say someone didn't replace one or the other with the wrong emblems somewhere along the line, but it would not surprise me if Motion used whatever he could get his hands on, and varied the actual emblems used. Pantera, the ones on your car in the pic you just posted are DEFINITELY Ford pieces. If not Mustang, try Torino GT. I actually think thats what they are... post these pics on a ford forum and you'll get an identification answer as fast as if you posted a 68 Impala SS427 emblem on here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

70-71 Torino GT rocker panel. Thats what my Ford buddy says. (sorry I have a Ford buddy!) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

You know Larry you make a good point.. I'd be willing to bet those emblems DID fall off sometime prior to it being painted black.. That would justify filling the holes since nothing else would fit. Or then again it could have just been owner preference.. Too bad you can't find that owner that removed the emblems.. I wonder whos got those laying in the bottom of a dirty box in some dungy basement somewhere. Makes you wonder what all is still hiding out there, forgotten. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Joe, The pic Azrapse posted is a pic of what I think is of my 69 car as pictured in CARs' magazine (Aug 1969). It is in the article of the back of the car that I am trying to find the emblems for. I have 2 Baldwin Phase III cars. The pic with the ford emblem is off my fully documented (original BOS from Baldwin Chev.) '70 white/gold stripe car. They are on the side of the rear fender on it.

The car on the attachtment on this page is what I am trying to find the white GT letters for. I have gone crazy since getting home from SCR6 and have been on a daily quest to document that all the different items in the article in the magazine that are consistent with the car I have owned since late 73. This is the last item and I feel that the GTO is the last of 21 things that prove it in my mind. Of course Joel is happy that two of his cars have suddenly surfaced from out of the blue. I have been very active on the Valkyrie motorcycle forum for the last 5 years and didn't have any idea that anyone even knew what a Baldwin Motion car was. Boy was I suprised!!!

There is a good article in the Motion cars web page that also shows the car from different angles. It is one of the best as it shows the car to be a TH-400 when you look through the rear window, which is what mine has. This was one of the items that I needed to prove before submitting it to Joel for certification. This first car is one of a kind as the cars that he turned out later were much more modified and they came out with a 454 in 70 so he could not use the same setup as on my 69!

While we were chatting he remembered selling my 70 car to the original owner. We were talking at the SCR6 and he told me that the guy wanted the hotest stock engine (LS-7) that he sold at that time. He thought the car had been totaled because the owner had called him and told him that he wrecked the car. Mine has had front end damage on the L front and they did a lousy job of repariing it. When I bought it in 75, I found the original sales contract in the glove box with the owners name on it and Joel confirmed it. $13,620 was a lot of money back in 1970.

To get back to the emblems the Black Ford emblems that are still on my 70 are the original ones to the car. It only has 15,xxx mi on it.
The problem has been trying to figure out just what Joel used on the back of the 69 car. I found out the SS emblem was off a 67, SS 427 Impalla. Now I feel the GTO emblem, will solve the rest of the mystery.
Thanks for your interest -- And that goes for all of you on here... You make me feel like I am among old friends and that feels real good...!

Larry
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Larry just out of curiosity why go through all with this with the emblems and drive yourself crazy. Just ship what you have on the cars to Joel and pay the $1500 for each car. It will definably be money well spent in the long run.

BTW any chance you can take full body shots of the cars and post pics for the group? I for one would love to see what the cars look like today.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

There's that rich guy Frank trying to spend everyones money again, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I heard he made his fortunes selling Mustangs and Berger license plate frames! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Still bored Frank? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Motown
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Mo I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I actually think it is cool that this guy still has these cars after all these years. I think from what he has posted that they are legit!

<font color="red"> *Disclaimer* I am not a Diamond certified judge, Clairvoyant, or a psychic just a guy that has faith in people! </font>

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Frank,
I didnt notice you being a smart ass, cars sound legit to me also.....you guilty of something Frank? Maybe trying to beat an old broken down toothless biker out of his hot rod? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Not sure what year it is but here is a pic of a GTO emblem I found in a box of emblems. The letters have a V shape groove on the centerline and a raised edge.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Thanks for the pic, I think those are the ones off the back of the same year car I am looking for. the ones I need are around 1 1/4" tall and have a white background. I didn't have my glasses on the day I tried to measure them on a car and so I can't be exact on the size. I was only concerned if they were about that same size as the SS leters on the SS427 that goes above them. There is a swap meet this weekend in my area and I am hoping that I get lucky. there was a ton of GTO's sold around the Tulsa area back then. OIL money you know.?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

To answer your question. I don't have the $$$ that some of you guys on here have. That is a good and hard weeks work for me.

When I was at Scr6 Joel raised a few questions about my car that nobody has been able to answer either at the show or on here! Joel could not remember if the car was a TH-400 or a 4 speed? When I got home and everyday since I have been on a mission to document as many things about both the car in the article and my car that were consistent so that I could part with that much $$$. This is a bad time of the year for me as winter comes, my income goes to nothing. (I repair swimming pools.) (Anybody need a deal on a pool heater??)
The short list of things I needed to find out were=
On the Car's magazine cover it looks red but mine was Hugger orange. Marty confirmed the car was orange the printer just made it look red.

The Auto trans was a big problem= nobody I asked, could remember just what it was back then and no photos showed the shifter till one day I was following a link to the Motion web page and there on a magazine article that showed the slant back window of the car and there, you can see inside the car and the chrome top knob of the shifter shows plain as day. Whew that was a relief. I really sweated that one. I must have asked eveyone at the SCR6 if they knew and nobody did? Joel was not sure either.

The other was the gas cap on mine was bondo'ed in and my '70 car and the one at the show were not. The same pic shows the gas cap flush like mine was when I got it.

So one by one I as I found photos or orther ways to prove it I was able to put my mind to rest that I do indead have the car in the magazine article. I will never forget when I first saw it and even though it was repainted black, I reconized it right away. I have found 21 things that are the same as on my car that I can prove with either pic's or the Tank sheet which shows it came from Baldwin and the S/N is a early car not a late in the year, almost 1970 car. My title shows it taged by me since 75 when I had to borrow some extra money back then and they made me put the title in my name. I was a exempt dealer before that so I didn't change it till I had to. (Super Car Center used cars-Tulsa) You could see the corvettes from the interstate as you drove up I-44 eastbound.

This rear emblem question, is the last piece of the puzzle before coughing up that kind of money. I have no problem with spending it for this use. My only problem is my 93 year old Mother has had a bad stroke and will not last and I may have huge bills coming to have to take care of her till her time comes. This is not a good time for this to happen, going into winter, but the quest I am on is helping me keep from crying to much. She is all the family I have left at 58 yrs old.

The good part is I am excited about finding all of you guys on here...! Everyone is so nice and if any of you are traveling through Tulsa be sure to shout and I will show you the cars in person. Ed (55 Chev) will no doubt post a conformation on here about if they are real and do exist on Sat when he comes by to see the cars in person.

I still have my old body shop and equipment, to do the body work on it and the motor is very low mileage but not the original one, which was bad when I got it.

Here is the pic of it back in early 74 when I got it.

I am sure that you guys have a problem with phonys wanting to play big man on here and brag about something that they don't have. I don't need to brag but would love to be respected on here as a man of his word as most of you seem to be, to me the outsider looking in. I would love to be able to count every one of you as a friend and hope that time will make all of you on here, feel that I can be trusted as a friend. (even when I act onery like a few on here do to each other in fun).

I guess that I am just trying to say what a great place this is and thanks all of you, for everything...

Larry Clain
Tulsa OK.

When I bought the '70, I found the original BOS in the car and at SCR6, Joel told me the original owners name with out me telling him what it was. He has thought all these years that it was totaled and told me that was gone. He said he distinctly remembered the order on the car because the guy wanted the biggest hotest motor he could get. He then sald Lawler was his name and I said that is was funny that he remembered that name because Roger Lawler was the name on the BOS I found in the glove box behind the seat, that was from Baldwin Chev listing the moton items totaling $13,620. Needles to say he was suprised to hear that it was still around. The '70 is a 15,xxx mi car and has a rod tapping so it will be awhile till I get it ready to be seen. I want to get the 69 documented first and restored to show it off by the next SCR convention. I do all the work myself so I will be a busy boy this winter. It helps to keep my mind off my problems. I have dreaded this time for years as her health was bad for a long time. I was just hoping that she would last till into next year.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Larry, I wouldn't sweat the verification from Joel yet since you obviously have no plans to sell the car. And I understand your position regarding the health of relatives. My grandmother went in for cancer surgery today and it's not the best prognosis. Hang in there.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Larry,
We kinda bounced off to an argumentive start, my apologies. My heart and prayers go out to you and your mom, I know what you are going through, in the last year I lost my mother after nursing her here in my home for months before her death. I have a whole new apprieciation for what really counts and what doesnt. Three months later I lost my dad. I have not begun to get over it and may never, so I can certainly relate to what you are currently going through. You have the prayers and blessings of my family to yours.

You got a couple really unique cars, while your wallet may be empty, you would be surprised at how much money you have. Research, reaserch, documentation, documentation, that is the key. While your present life may be pressed to go with getting the paper from Joel right away, go for it anyway, you never know when something could happen to Joel(God Forbid) and then you would loose that opportunity for Joel's blessing. With the paper in your hand the value of your car's increase dramatically, thereby if you ever got into a real jam for funds, The financial backing sits in your garage.

I too suffer ths same problem, I have a tough time with my bills sometimes, yet I could live rather well if I were to advertise the contents of my buildings for sale. You never know what turns up in a case like that. Car poor. When I do get money, what do I do? Another car, a true sickness. There are a lot of good guys here, we all have our days and differences of opinion, but what could you expect from an entity that is composed of people from all different walks of life, social classes, religions, cultures, heritage, and financial classes. These cars bring people from different backgrounds together in a way nothing else does.

You sound like a straight up guy, welcome aboard, Marlin will nitpick you, BelAir will amuse you, many here will give you a direct opinion if you want to hear it or not, I just sort of hang around as the resident @sshole, and finally, Charlie will tell you that You Suck! So if we sound like a crew you want to hang out with welcome to the family of misfits, and if you do leave, can we keep your cars? Please? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Larry
I noticed the red/orangecar on the August issue has the special custom indented headlights while your black car has the factory pop up headlamps. It seems like a lot of work to go from factory pop up lamps to Joels special indented ones and then back to pop up lamps. I have at least 10 Corvette car features in the old New York Mags that have the rear glass treatment, Motion style hood, outward side vents, gas caps etc but are not originally Motion cars. These were some of the typical mods of the day just like todays cowl industion hoods and were available from many different suppliers, not just Motion. For instance, a Corvette is on Cars mag, June 71 that has the Motion style headlamps etc but was built by Custom Enterprises in Lindhurst NJ.

Does your black car have evidence that work was done on the front end? I would look at this first before sending in $1500
I don't want to play devils advocate but this headlamp deal seems like a pretty big change from the original Motion car. I can't imagine the amount of work it would take to go back to original or why someone would do it and leave the rest of the car modified. Was the car hit in the front and reclipped possibly?
You have to also look at the scenario that someone else liked the car on the Cars mag and duplicated it with emblems etc but did not want to add the special headlamps due to cost/labor etc. Or, they liked everything else but were turned off by the headlamps. Look at all the Mustangs etc today that are being built to look like Saleens/Roush Mustangs There are 2-3 in my rural area that have bought the ground effects kits, window decals, wheels etc. From outward appearances they look just like the real deal.

I think the headlamp issue is the key you need to concentrate on.

Dave

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

If you are refering to the DATSUN style lights you are looking at the wrong date cover shots. go back a few posts and you will see that it has the stock headlights. In the inside of the issue it says so too. Now my white car has the cut back lights.

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Larry. I didn't realize about your mother. You hadn't talked about that with me. I know what you must be going through. My thoughts are with you. .. On a better note, I've studied the pics of your car and the cover car very carefully. You got it man. No question. I can't wait till this Saturday. Damn thursday and friday [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] They ALWAYS get in the way!.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Motion phase III Vette emblem (FOUND??)
 

Guys, I just got word that Larry's mother passed away friday. Let's keep him in our thoughts and prayers.