Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Miscellaneous ramblings of someone bored at work...

I've been watching auctions generally and have noticed some interesting behaviour:

1. People can be successfully encouraged to pay higher prices with words like "rare", "Yenko" etc. even when you see the same thing five times in a row over a few days or the part in question isn't even appropriate to the application listed -- like the infamous Yenko steering wheel knob that has been on auction for over a year. Even worse is when they say it's rare and NEW at the same time -- notice the ads for the Motion style valve covers.

2. Setting higher prices seems to make some things more attractive. Remember "Giffen goods" from basic economics? -- things that have higher demand the more expensive they are. Classic examples were always Rolls-Royces or Picasso paintings, and have been joined by ZL-1 parts, BB motor mounts, 499 distributors, Berger license plate frames, etc.

3. People suggest that they are selling things for "no reserve" and set an opening bid price of $150? Seems like a reserve to me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] If you were really selling something at no reserve, you'd start it a buck or a 1¢ and take whatever you got...

4. There seems to be an increasing number of items being pulled because they "are no longer for sale." Too many side deals being cut, if you ask me. Is eBay destined to be more of an advertising forum than a marketplace?

5. Check out the value arbitrage that camarojoe has set up between these two auctions.

As a buyer: NOS Chevrolet License PLate , Dealer Item ! (Ended - May-18-03 15:48:45 PDT)

As a seller: 72 Chevelle Camaro License Plate NOS GM Rare! (Started - Jun-04-03 19:21:00 PDT)

I especially like the "Buy it now" for $150!?!

Looks like a eBay can be a good business! Better than the old stock market "day trading"...

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I'd like to think that people are paying too much when someone says "rare" or "Yenko" or "COPO", but the stuff keeps selling at those high prices so I guess that's what it will cost to buy the parts. No reserve with a high starting bid is a bad auction tactic. Side deals do bother me, but I've had good success on both ends of auctions with some side deals so it's a legitimate part of the selling process as long as you list in your auction that you reserve the right to end the auction early. Ebay is tremendous for advertising. I just helped my boss sell his 1977 Corvette which he was the original owner with all paperwork and a "rare" color combination. It didn't meet the reserve, but 2 of the bidders kept following up on it until it reached the price he wanted. My thought process is to determine what I'm willing to pay for an item and either bid early or wait until the last second. But, I will not increase the amount I'm willing to pay.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Garnet in response to #3....Would you start a 69 ZL-1 at $1000 at the auction block? No! Why would you waste the time to approch the market value of 250 to 300K with wasted bidds.This weeds out a ton of people,it leaves you with serious bidders.If you know what the value is,as a seller you should,why fool around......As to #5 I don't see anything wrong.Buy low and sell for the market value.These dealer only plates are very tough to find in nice shape.There is a new plate every year and were prone to a lot of damage through the years.....


Steve

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Ebays the worst best thing thats happened for restorers in a long time, especially guys who can't go to the big swaps. I do all my Ebaying whilst being paid at work (like right now). A [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] guy from Canada beat me out of a decklid by sending me a box of rust that was once a decklid. Conversely I got a 1 piece riveted 67 Camaro rs grille that is the ultra, ultra rare flat style not 68 style..I got this grill for 150 bucks because it was listed improperly..Good or bad Ebays here to stay. T

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Unfortunate, but you might be right.I remember , not too long ago, staying on the phone all day calling salvage yards all over trying to find a hard to find parts & sloshing thru rain soaked mud covered fields at swap meets to find a bargain. At the time, I use to think I was out of my mind , for going thru that, BUT OH DO I MISS THE DAYS OF THE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD OF SWAP MEETS & SALVAGE YARDS BEFORE EBAY.
JoeG------IMO [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

On the other hand you are unlikely to sell a 69 ZL-1 without a reserve [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'd be happy to participate in that auction if you do have one to sell without a reserve....

Seriously though, you see a lot of no reserve auctions go by without a sale because the seller put his starting (in my books "reserve") price too high.

I also think that the wasted time/bids concept you mention also doesn't actually exist. Clearly all or most of us wait until the final few seconds of an auction to submit our killer bid (except poor Charlie on the Berger frames because he was on the road [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]). That's the phenomenon that gets us $3500 LS6 distributors and $900 motor mounts, something in each case that I'm sure the seller wasn't expecting.

I guess the opposite side of that is something like what happened recently on a full 69 Z28 smog setup -- the seller yanked the item and sold it away from the auction, even though a board member was interested, because "there didn't seem to be enough interest." Maybe he should have waited -- might have gotten $2000 for it??

Just my opinons. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Also, not bashing camarojoe or buy low/sell high, but I'm amazed at how prices can ratchet so quickly. Guess it's all in what you know vs. the other guy...

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I agree , somewhat, in your opinion, but on the lighter side there use to be a saying, and I sure it's, true today -----Powered by Ford---- Powered by Chey---- Powered by Money.D'ont get me wrong, money is a good thing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], but that's the arena your playing in when your bidding on ebay. Can rules be made or strictly enforced , that's a different topic. When your bidding on ebay keep your fingers crossed , that the guy who's bidding against had a computer crash. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Joe-----IMO

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Interesting to note that as of today the value of "E Bay" as a corporation based on its market capitalization is $33 Billion dollars. For comparison, market cap of General Motors and Ford combined is $40 billion. That's with only 4000 employees compared to 700,000+ auto workers. At the current rate of growth it will not be long before you will be able to trade E Bay for Ford and GM combined in a straight swap.
Marc

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

GARNET M20
IN RESPONSE TO #5, I ADMIRE WHAT CAMAROJOE DID WITH THAT LICENSE PLATE. HE DISCOVERED A DEAL, KNEW THE PLATE HAD VALUE AND REMARKETED IT CORRECTLY AND TO NO SUPRISE, HAS ALREADY NETTED A PROFIT. DONT MAKE HIM A BAD PERSON.... KP

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Hey Lay of CamaroJoe..(teasing You)
He has to pay for those $610.00 Berger License plate frames anyway he can.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Hmmm, let me see EBAY Chevelle---EBAY Mustang--,gee I don't know, kind of looses somthing. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Camaroejoe should just give me the plate for free and I will forgive him.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

[ QUOTE ]


Looks like a eBay can be a good business! Better than the old stock market "day trading"...

[/ QUOTE ]

You said it man. Seems funny to me that so much criticism comes from this board about eBay and people's legitimate buying and selling practices. Garnet, it seems you have a good understanding of economic principles yet have a problem with buying low and selling high? Isn't that the name of the game? So what if Camarojoe bought the license plate in question and sells it for more than he paid? That's how you make money, that's how the capitalist system is supposed to work. Seems odd that everyone gets up in arms about the prices on eBay when no one is twisting arms when it comes to selling or buying. Ebay is an online auction, don't like the price, don't bid, it's that easy. My brother payed over $600 for those now INFAMOUS Berger license plate frames, mainly because YOU, who were obviously not a contender for them, posted the link on here, and all the people who wouldn't have ever seen them, SAW them... but regardless, he is very happy with his purchase, and believes in their value, yet members of the sYc still feel the need to ridicule. (I bring up yet another reason why the private auction has become attractive, no need to hear everyone's opinion on your purchase... how much did YOU pay for your house, your car, etc?) Camarojoe also bought the "building a better way" plate on ebay for $26, but now it's up to 50 something. The bidders who are bidding now seem to feel confident in it's value as well, and they had every chance to buy it the first time (as did you) when it came on and Camarojoe was high bid, except they didn't...maybe because they didn't see it, maybe it wasn't "worded" as well..AKA...using the "inappropriate words" Yenko, COPO, etc. that you find so offensive, yet everyone at the sYc seems to search on a daily basis. I don't understand the problem, do you want to sell your COPO for what you payed? I don't think so, neither does anyone else or the Supercar marketplace wouldn't have doubled it's prices in the last 5 years. I don't know how you make your money, or how you got your COPO, but I can bet it wasn't from selling things for what you paid. Everything from your COPO car to the toilet paper in your bathroom was sold at a markup, someone made money on it in the process, I can't speak for England, but that's how the US economy works, that's how people get income to exchange for goods and services. Some people make theirs by buying low and selling high being "day traders" doing it with stocks & bonds or "ebayers" doing it with license plates, to me it's all the same. Ask a real estate developer how he makes his money, he'll tell you he finds the "undeveloped" low cost/high potential land and develops it, making a profit for his efforts, Camarojoe finds the undeveloped/low cost car parts, and puts them in touch with people who are willing to pay more $$$ for them, I just don't see the need for all the ridicule. Camarojoe isn't a member of this board, and it isn't surprising why.
I don't see anyone holding guns to peoples heads to bid on ebay items. Don't insult the people who can (and do) afford these items. They can read and have their own brain. Decent people have made money on selling and reselling car parts (and everything else) for years. Let history continue. If you can't play the game, don't rip apart others who can roll with it. You'll have to use a dollar store wisk broom to clean up your AUTHENTIC, RARE, REAL, "NEW" Picasso Paintings, cause someone already bought the "overpriced" $200 berger one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
People are quick to pass judgement around here, cry about exorbanant prices or "rare" parts that just aren't "rare" enough, yet at the Supercar Reunion every year, people flock around Camarojoe's memorobilia display that he brings without any compensation or incentive other than to share with people who can dig it, and everyone seems to love it, giving compliments, asking for copies/favors/etc.,... yet he comes home signs on and reads what SOME members of the sYc have to say. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Well said!

Steve

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I think it's all how you present the item you have for sale.
IMO A lot of people don't realize, or don't know how to, write up a good add for ebay.
I've got good deals on things because the person may advertise an item for a Buick, when you know it may also fit a car, like your Camaro. With no offence to Buick fans [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
These Guys who write things like "Rare" & "NOS" & misrepresent their parts should be shot!
(This may seem extreme)
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

Rob

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I guess we ALL should be thankful that FREE EXCHANGE of ideas still dosen't go to the highest bidder. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

NOW YOU GUYS ARE LEARNING!!!!
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I THINK A COUPLE GUYS HERE....can read ReGarDlESS Of dIcTActIon CaPTiliZaTIOn!!!!! or pronunciation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

AGREEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Sometimes.....words make sense if you read it twice...(KINDA LIKE MAGAZINES IN A BATHROOM!!!!!!!!!!)

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Wow where do I start. Well first I can say that I agree with you Garnet about a few things. First as we all know prices for muscle cars/supercars and their memorabilia have gotten out of control. I am a young muscle car enthusiast and love the cars but am growing to love the memorobilia even more. I have collected a respectable number of things and have aspirations to collect even more rare and neat peices of history.

With that said, I contribute the current "state" of our passion to the internet and especially e-bay. The days of advertising cars and parts to a small local audience are over. When a new car or part is advertised now you have a captive audience of the whole WORLD. Wow isn't that weird to think about? When you advertise lets say a NOS Nickey Chevrolet parts catalog now anybody that is sitting in front of a computer can just do a general search under Nickey and come up with anything that has the word Nickey as a keyword in the auction and could bid on it. The reason you get an inflated price is lets say that I want that particular catalog I saw on e-bay while surfing the web in Chicago to complete my collection of Nickey catalogs and bid a large amount (to me at least which would be my opinion of market value) of $200.00. Now you sitting on your computer across the big pond look up that same catalog and may be in a better financial postion than me and need that peice to add to your collection and say "man that catalog is worth $300.00 to me" so you bid on it. Now I am out and you are the high bidder. Now to even add more to this rant that I am on, another jerk is sitting in let's say for conversation California and sees that same catalog as he is chilling with his dog surfing the web [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] and decides that he could pay $400.00 for that darn catalog that was originally $1.00 brand new! HE WINS NOW WE HAVE A REDICULES INFLATED PRICE! I think that you all get my point! This stuff pisses me off but that is the modern age that we live in. I just hope that I can keep up with the inflation so I can keep doing what I love.

Now for the private auctions. I have seen public auctions do harm lately. I myself hated private auctions since their are a few rotten apples that have spoiled the whole bunch. Did you guys look at the bid history for the now "infamous" Berger plate frames auction? I think that almost if not all of the bidders were members of this site one way or another. Now we are all competeing for the same stuff and grudges may form because you outbid me. That sucks. I lost a neat Nickey poster board that I REALLY wanted to camarojoe and even spent stupid money IMO. But like I told him "All's fair in love and war." He was just willing to spend more. Thats life.

Guys bottom line is we have to be careful what we say on this site sometimes. That person that we bash could be a friend and we don't even know it. Camarojoe is one of our friends. He contributes a lot to the supercar hobby by lugging 20 tables of memorabilia across the country on his own buck to The Supercar Reunion just for our enjoyment. We all love to see all that neat stuff we have probably never seen before. He isn't a vendor selling anything at the show, just a guy like us that loves supercars and wants to share his part of them with the rest of us. If he buys a part and makes profit god bless! I am sure that he justs reinvests it back into lets say for example $610.00 Berger plate frames. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] I for one bid with confidence when I participate in his auctions. Like supercar kid said. If you don't like the way an auction looks, or the current price, don't bid on it!

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

GEE FRANK ................WHAT IS THE POINT.....FROM THE HEART? YEA [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]I BELIEVE SO

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes.....words make sense if you read it twice...(KINDA LIKE MAGAZINES IN A BATHROOM!!!!!!!!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]
KLONECO,
That is deep----,also very funny!

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Your points are well taken and not inconsistent with my own.

Perhaps there has been so much bashing of people like camarojoe (who I assume is your brother from the way you wrote your comment?) and yountto that people are a little raw around the edges?

If you read carefully the way I wrote my original comments, you should notice that there is no actual slur against him -- "Check out the value arbitrage that camarojoe has set up between these two auctions."

I merely point out of a fact -- namely he bought something at one price two weeks ago and has now been able to sell it (or at least get a bid for it) at roughly double the price and that he believes someone might pay 5x the cost he bought it for. Good business.

You'll also note that in my response to Steve (68l30) that I said the following "Also, not bashing camarojoe or buy low/sell high, but I'm amazed at how prices can ratchet so quickly. Guess it's all in what you know vs. the other guy..."

If people actually took the time to read what was written before reacting we might have a bit fewer contentious postings (on the other hand the board would be a bit boring...) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] For example, my life, at least, would be incomplete without the Jack Douglass*Yenko COPO (or is it Jack Douglass*COPO Yenko) debate... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

You should also know that I have a good trading relationship with yountto and frank dihartce, two people that certainly know how to find the rare parts and mark 'em up to an appropriate market price. I've got no problem paying them for their services as I wouldn't have paying camarojoe for his should he have something I need or more likely WANT!!! As I stated earlier, it's all in what you know (or have stored in the garage) vs. the other guy.

BTW I am an investment banker (which means I help companies raise money or buy/sell themselves to others) and pray daily at the alter of capitalism. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]

Tough for me to get where I've gotten without being primarily driven by the desire and ability to increase the value of the product I sell -- namely the intellectual capital of me and my colleagues backed up by the deep pockets of my bank and the broader capital markets (ie. you and your mutual funds).

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I like your point -- did you notice the difference in P/E multiples?

GM = 6.5x
eBay = 102.6x

Sheesh. People love to pay for growth, heh?!?! That trade would be scarier than taking AOL stock in 2000 if you were a Time Warner shareholder...

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I Simply enjoy the sport! Which I believe we ALL SHOULD!!! I "RAMBLE" SO I HAVE BEEN TOLD!! no harm intended. so.... my words of perfection are not perfect...........but from the heart!................................JOE G,IF YOU ARE A TRUE "CAR GUY"....(magazines reside in the bathroom!!!!!!!!!!!) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] It is not the seller ,,it is the buyer that wants it bad enough to drive the price up!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

As I have been told many times, "If cool was cheap, we would all be cool." The little things that complement a restoration are often very expensive, but cool. A dealer yardstick, wiskbroom, dealership badge etc all add interest and nobody does cool like Camarojoe. He has paid stupid money for many items just to share with the board members for free at the reunion. He has never sold one item at the reunion or has attempted too. I have no problem with it...BKH [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I personally think the Berger plates would have looked better on my car at the Reunion than on Joe's table. I guess he needed them more than I did. Thankyou to the others out there that tried to accomidate me by not bidding. I do have the Wisk Broom in the Glove Box though.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

This is a good topic,that I understand both sides to.
Conider that every second of every day something is sold on Ebay,that is either gravely Undervalued,or grossly Overpriced.
This is nothing new,but we as humans are more aware of it today because it is so easily accessible on our computer screens.This has been going on for centuries.
What I don't like is when I pick up a part at a Swapmeet,and the seller quotes a Ridiculously High price based on what sold on Ebay recently.
That is where I draw MY line,drop the part,and say "Don't bring Ebay prices to an Outdoor swapmeet",and walk away.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I don't like is when I pick up a part at a Swapmeet,and the seller quotes his price based on what sold on Ebay recently.
That is where I draw MY line,drop the part,and say "Don't bring Ebay prices to an Outdoor swapmeet".

[/ QUOTE ]

mr70,

I ran across that also in the last year, I asked donít you want to sell it for cash now or take it home!
Both responses said they didnít care and would probably get way more for the item on e-bay.

Most of the guys are using the booths to score the good stuff before the gates open is my guess.

I talked with several guys a few weeks ago at a swap meet and they were giddy with the great stuff that shook loose lately, May have to find a booth to help out with in the future!, I realize this has been going on for years.

-Early bird gets the worm; just have to outsmart them next time!
Now where are my XRAY-Glasses??? I can scan the rigs when they pull in from the street!

Bud.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I dunno Garnet...maybe I am just a little raw around the edges. I just think taking the time out to note "interesting behavior" on eBay and then highlighting an item Camarojoe won and then relisted (at an appropriate markup) as an example, and adding the comment "I love the buy it now of $150" with an exclaimation point and a question mark seems to infer a bit of ridicule. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Maybe I'm reading too much into simple punctuation, but it seems odd that you would have taken time out of your day to draw attention to something you apparently don't have a problem with. How would you feel if you were selling a company to another for your job, and I (an outsider with no business in the deal at all) went to an investor's website and posted my thoughts on your "interesting behavior" noting that you are attempting to sell a company for more than you payed, with a comment like "I especially like his asking price!?!" You're right about the bashing around here, it doesn't take long for people to form opinions of others they've never even met, just by reading a bunch of ranting on the 'net, which is why I don't like seeing my brother's name and eBay practices brought under scrutiny at the sYc when he's never done any harm to the supercar community, unless some of you consider his severe addiction to supercar memorabilia collecting doing harm. But as far having a problem with the strong prices on eBay, I'd have to say that your practice of linking eBay auctions (that you apparently have no intentions of bidding on) to the sYc site certainly has an effect on the end price, by only adding to the attention and traffic of a particular item. I'm sure Charley wished there wouldn't have been so much attention to that auction for the Berger plate frames you linked here, as well as Camarojoe, the bidder who ultimately payed the inflated price for such an attractive item. How would you feel if I searched the items you were bidding on and posted a link to them here, with my opinions on the prices good or bad? No hard feelings Garnet, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, lets just not use eBay prices of buyers or sellers as another way to make "good guys" and "bad guys" out on this board. (long live the private auction) Let the eBayers find their treasures themselves, and make their own decisions as to what they should be worth. Just my opinion... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Guess my elementary school grammar teacher had it right when she said "punctuation is the most important part of writing."

Fair 'nuff. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Supercarkid;
Well said!

KLONECO;
Did you reply to your own post back there! I think I'm actually following you on this one!

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Guys one thing that I didn't mention is when people use keywords like Nickey, Yenko, COPO, etc in an ebay auction is not all that bad IMO. By using search words like that all the seller is doing is trying to call out to a certain group of buyers. People who like these cars will search under these words and hope to find somthing in that category. As long as the seller is not saying somthing like "this type part was used as factory equiptment in lets say a Yenko Camaro" and it really didn't. That is when I have a problem with it.

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Guys are abusing the key word idea big time. Check all the Yenko, COPO, Z28, Crossram, JL8, Baldwin, Nickey, Berger, DZ, L72, LS6, SS, Hurst listings and you'll find stupid stuff like shifter balls that are aftermarket. Heck, just put the word "tuner" or "Acura" in your auction and you'll have a ton of kids bidding on the part to put on their imports!

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Marlin, I thought I could save you some typing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

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KLONECO,
Your keypad must be SMOKEN!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

I still think Camaroejoe should just let me have the plate for free and we can stop all this bickering !!!

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Some musings regarding eBay...
 

Ebay shows this license plate sold for $127.50.