69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

I saw this advertised on another site, and thought someone on this board may be interested. Here is the link http://www.cars-on-line.com/69cam11877.html

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...o=&fpart=1

That is Kevin's car. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

I have to say that, no matter what the discussion was about the color, etc., I saw the car after it was painted, and, it is awesome!If I hadn't spent all my fun money on other toys, I'd buy it back in a heartbeat.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Kevin why would you want to part with this awesome car? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

You guys change cars like most people change underwear for cryin out loud !! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

If I could make these kinds if profits on underwear, I would be changing mine a lot more often. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

You mean we're supposed to change our underwear! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Then I wouldn't be able to afford the peanut butter AND jelly sandwiches. I will say I'm surprised to see this car for sale though.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Well, I don't have a real reason, nor big desire to sell. I did price it a little more than I have into the car, about 10%. I do know the fellow with the green ex-Otis Phase III turned down $250K on that car. The owner of the Yellow LS7 Dream Car Garage Camaro feels his is worth equivalent of value to a 69 ZL1 Camaro which are bouncing around $275K. To me the ZLX is decently priced, as it is the only 427 ZLX Phase III Camaro I know of to exist

Since I'm into the hobby for the love of cars, and not for profit, there is probably no amount of money that could buy my Yellow 69 Motion Camaro,(I hope that doesn't turn into "famous last words"), as it is just not for sale. It's just that I'm just a little overabundant with Motion cars. Recently bought the 73 SS427 Phase III Chevelle from Cahill.This is my list of Motion Cars:
68 SS 427 L88 Phase III Camaro
69 SS 427 Phase III Camaro
69 427 ZLX Phase III Camaro
69 SS 427 Phase III Vette
69 SS 427 Phase III Nova
69 SS 427 Phase III Chevelle
71 Z28 454 Phase III Camaro
73 SS 427 Phase III Chevelle
Because having 2 69 Camaros, I chose to sell the ZLX; but won't bother me if I end up keeping it either.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Nice List Kevin! Gotta love seeing Phase III next to each car = lotsa HP [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

My question is...What makes a Motion car a Phase 3 ? I know my 80 Motion had Phase 3 on the Motion paperwork and on a Decal on the car. Seems like they are all Phase 3 cars now.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Charley, most likely you have seen this from MaddMikes pages but just in case you havent. Also notice there are no Phase I or II cars.

http://www.nastyz28.com/motion/motion.html

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Rat Bird is also a Phase III, per the Motion invoices [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

One of the old Motion catalogues explained the differences between the phases.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

It looks like the contents of the phase 3 package varied with model and the year. This is for 69.
Phase 3 Camaro
On a Corvette, mag wheels and sidepipes were included with Phase 3.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Joel used the term "Phase III" to describe the top of the line more exotic options. The Phase III car was the one that ran in the 11's. Motion also used the terms - Phase III fiberglass, Phase III ignition box, Phase III emblems, Phase III graphics, and Phase III engines. The cars were custom built and used similar parts but probably none were exactly the same. Phase III was big HP and big money. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Kevin, That Yellow Car is one that keeps me awake at night!!! Someday when I hit the Texas Lotto I may pay you a visit to see if I cant change your mind!!

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
My question is...What makes a Motion car a Phase 3 ? I know my 80 Motion had Phase 3 on the Motion paperwork and on a Decal on the car. Seems like they are all Phase 3 cars now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Charley, is as knowledgable as anyone here, and of course not all Motion cars are Phase III. So I'm typing this for others that may be curious. Some Motion cars were only 427 crate motor transplants retaining stock exhaust and all factory equipment just like a 427 COPO Camaro; and therefore not a Phase III. Those Motion 427 crate motor transplant Camaros, were equivalent to GM Factory 427 COPO Camaros, and were pretty tame when compared to the Phase III Cars.

In my opinion, Yenko (COPO) Camaros are tame in comparison to the Phase III Motion Cars and is why I appreciate Motion Phase III Cars more. If Charley's question is interpreted as, why are all of Kevin's Cars listed as Phase III Cars, it is because they were equipped as Phase III Cars beyond just a 427 crate motor transplant car. Charley's Phase III Camaro is also a whole lot more than just stuffing a 427 crate motor in a Camaro.

Also, Joe C is right in that the term Phase III was used loosely and covered a lot of equipment on Motion Cars, and no two Phase III Motion cars were the same.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Did all the Phase 3 Motion cars past the guaretee 11.?? mark. That was bold of them to guarentee such performance!
Actually thats [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] Awesome!

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Phase III it is similar to an Hot-Dog all dressed [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
In my opinion COPO and Yenko it is a serial cars.
Similar to Shelby GT.
Motion is not a serial cars
No motion cars were really identical.
Motion it is more an Hot-Rodded cars
ZLX Camaro look like more a pro-street [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
built for the world which was not able or did not have the time to do it but which had money for this paying it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]
Pro street a la carte.(on order)
Just my opinion.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Nice cover shot of the Daytona Yellow 69 Motion SS RS 427 Camaro [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

This is one of my favorite Camaro Motion this " Baldwin bandit " [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
I like more the look with this ZL2 hood than the original stinger hood.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Cool car for May feature cars [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, Yenko (COPO) Camaros are tame in comparison to the Phase III Motion Cars

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who is driving !!!!

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, Yenko (COPO) Camaros are tame in comparison to the Phase III Motion Cars

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who is driving !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Ya.... what he said!
Peter

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Ha-Ha, I knew that would get me a response. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Belair62, Hope your are not serious.
You mean a stock Yenko/copo would win over a Phase III car that has '69 era traction bars, wider aftermarket tires, intakes, headers and hotter cams and ignitions?

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

P.S. The only reason you guys have your dog dish skinny bias ply Copo's/Zl-1's etc running so fast in the Pure Stock drags is that every mechanical part on the car has been massaged to death. A stock Zl-1 pulled off the line in '69 would run 1 to 1 1/2 seconds slower than what these cars are running today.... even with Harrell driving.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

I was serious Whitetop ! I said it depends on who is driving.Not to say a Phase III is slower/faster or anything...If you have 2 reasonably similar cars and the one with all the goodies has the crappier driver...you get the point.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Bob, you've been watching Charley's dogs too much because you're barking up the wrong tree. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] Because then you'd be comparing driver against driver and who is the better driver; instead of Supercar against Supercar, to prove which Car is quickest.

Joe C, the "Musclecars" magazine cover photo is taken after the original owner took off the Phase III fiberglas hood. This photo is from the original owner.

http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/...Orig 69 BM.jpg

His Dad bought and picked it up while he was in Vietnam. Something that I've obtained that the original owner has not seen, is a copy of the Motion work Order listing all the Phase III items put on this car. The full sales price of my car from Baldwin was $6,481.72. Another example of cost is the full sales price on the Yellow LS7 Phase III Camaro at $6,193.90. These prices appear to be $1,500 to $2,000 more than a Yenko or Copo due to the additional High Performance equipment.

Besides the Motion cars I own, I have a considerable amount of paperwork for other Motion cars as well. Also have paperwork for a couple Motion cars that I believe are not known by others, except maybe Joel.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

How about comparing the times of the two cars in question as driven by the same driver [say Grumpy Jenkins or Ronnie Sox] on the same track, same day, same track conditions? Give him a few trial runs to get the feel of each car. Then see what times are possible with each car.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Guys...a car that has been tweaked with a hotter cam,headers,traction bars etc. would obviously be faster....who wins the race is not necessarily the faster car...I'm not talking professional drivers...think about back in the day when you ran up against a faster car or you had the faster car and you won/lost because of your driving skills.I was talking about a race...not what it says on paper !

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Bob you are 100% correct. But it would take Dick Harrell driving the Yenko/COPO, and someone's Grandma driving the Phase III car for that to happen. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
(I'm only teasing now, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] so don't get mad at me.)

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Supercars
It is difficult to see the hood tach on this original pictures with the stinger Hood. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Yes, I can see it better in my photo here. It is the yellow bulge right in line with the tail light of the station wagon in the background. It is listed on the Motion work order: Hood Tach-$75.00 (installed).

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

If you're talking about the real world of olden days street racing, like in the 60s & early 70s, around Chicago most of it was done "from a roll". That could have been from 20 or 30 MPH, depending on what was agreed upon. It was less conspicuous to the cops, and, gave some people distinct advantages. It also took a lot of the skill out of driving, so, if you knew where your car would spin the least, and, could "punch it" and go straight, then raw horsepower would rule.

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Thanks Kevin [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

I stayed away from this one as long as I could...

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. The only reason you guys have your dog dish skinny bias ply Copo's/Zl-1's etc running so fast in the Pure Stock drags is that every mechanical part on the car has been massaged to death. A stock Zl-1 pulled off the line in '69 would run 1 to 1 1/2 seconds slower than what these cars are running today.... even with Harrell driving.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Phase III car should slaughter a stock Yenko/COPO car...Joel had the advantage of learning from every car he built what each combo liked and what did/didn't work, and could transfer that info to whatever car he was building that day. His combos HAD to work (and they did), or else his 11.50 guarantee wouldn't hold water. This guarantee was with an approved driver, so the driver is semi-important.

BUT, assuming that because someone can grab their credit card and a Summit catalog, and give their car the "Ricky Racer" treatment (headers/cam/slicks) doesn't guarantee that particular car will even get out of it's own way...that's as true today as it was back then. I know a V-8 Vega and a V-8 S-10, both with the slick/header/cam treatment, that are still wondering why a certain yellow car with skinny tires out ran them.

And assuming "every mechanical part" on a Pure Stock car "has been massaged to death" sounds like the battle cry of the "header-dependant" crowd. These aren't NHRA super stock cars we're talking about. Massaged? No. Have the owners paid attention to the details (jetting, timing, etc.)? You're DARN RIGHT they have. But unfortunately, a LOT of so called "racers" skip the simple and most basic stuff (timing, jetting, etc.) in favor or the more glamorous things (big cam, hood scoop, headers, etc.). Yet those simpler, less glamorous details are the basis for every powerplant on the face of the earth.

Now, about the times the "stock" cars ran back in the day...ever read any old SS&DI magazines?

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

Back in the "old days" it was the little things that made the difference! My 68 Camaro was a stock 396-375 HP and it ran 12 flat. The only thing I did was put on headers, got a competition valve job, (changed the valve spring retainers), put in some 4:88 gears, duel electric fuel pumps, line lock, and dumped the old Caslers for a set of M&H slicks and had a guy named "Wild man" Bobby Williams tune it, doing all the little things, timing, jetting, etc. Another important thing was traction! back in those days everyone used Lakewoods but we fabricated a set and they worked a lot better than the ones you could buy at the time. When we put the L-88 short block in the car it ran 11.4s at 126 mph.(not bad for 1969!) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Motion ZLX Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking about a race...not what it says on paper !

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. That's how it was settled in the "good ole days".

How about, Friday, August 29, 2003 at Gateway Int. Raceway, during SCR6? I know there will be a few Yenkos racing, how about a Motion car or two? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Oh, and by the way, during past reunions, Yenko leads the series 1-0. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Possible shootout?
 

Mmmm, tasty! I was trying to think, and correct me if I'm wrong here fellas, but the only Motion car to race at the Reunion so far was Ogle's '70 Camaro? He babied it off the line, but I remember him having a pretty strong MPH, which tells me he gave in to temptation!

I know Hassett has raced his ZL-1 at the Reunion in the past, maybe he will give the new aluminum heads on his '68 B-M a chance to strut their stuff this year and make a pass? Think Joel could talk him into it?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Remember fellas, it's all in good fun, and everyone's a winner 'cause we all get to see some cool cars go down the track!

Re: Possible shootout?
 

COOL! (said in a Bevis & Butthead voice)

Does anybody trust Joel enough to let him drive their Motion car? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Possible shootout?
 

That would something to see, Joel at the wheel of a big block Motion car. Knowing Joel, I do not think it would take much arm twisting. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

I do not have a Motion car, but have extended an invitation to one of Yenko Chevrolet's former drag racers to attend a reunion, and would let him race our Camaro.

Hey, we could have Joel in one of his cars, Herb in Lil Hoss or one of the other Gibb cars he drove and Ed in a Yenko. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Possible shootout?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody trust Joel enough to let him drive their Motion car? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had one,.....I would charge him $1500.00.