Fastest Musclecar?
 

OK guys, here is the question of the day. What is the fastest musclecar ever delivered from the dealer, going straight to the strip and turning the best times with no changes except maybe tires? Everybody take a stab at it then I will toss in my opinion, which is of one I used to own and have been sorry ever since the day I sold it. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

I'm thinking one of the mid 60s lightweight hemis. Seem to rember a C&D article about a coronet. Wish I could read it again.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

You are a sharp one, lets see if anybody can pin it down further. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

1967 Cornet 440- 440 not being the motor but part of the cars name. Car was powered by a HEMI from the factory.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

------Whats allowed in the choices?I mean,if Cobras are allowed,everything is up in the air.
------I will say that an LS6 with headers,slicks and 4:56s would break into the 11s,but open headers arent in your question.Those are pretty stout numbers,but there are other cars to choose from.The right Buick Gran Sport could do some damage too.If you had to run thru the full factory exaust a ZL1 might be at a disadvantage.Same with a COPO.Exaust really cut them down a peg.Factory delivered Hemis never showed me much.But watch out if they had a cam change and compression bumped a tad.Back in 65/66,in street racing days we payed alot of attention to the way a Hemi sounded.you could tell a modified one!
------But my personal choice(if Corvettes are allowed)would be a 69 Corvette open chamber L88 automatic.You could only get them delivered with 3:55s,but they were bad boys.Throw a gear change in there with a little looser converter and watch out............Bill S.......ol red!

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Hemi Dart

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

BINGO! The 68 Hemi Dart, also known as the Elephant Dart, prepared by Hurst corporation, 55 built, sold thru the dealers bill of sale only, labled for race use only. Some may argue that not to be a musclecar since it was sold no title, yet it came through the dealer, straight to the track in the mid ten second bracket. They came with acid dipped fenders, no window regulators, no back seat, front clip in primer, rear wheel wells opened up, thin side glass, and slicks if you ordered them. Never before or after did one of the big three do anything like it. They also came with zero warranty. The guys at Hurst would beat the shock towers in with a hammer to make the Hemi fit. Ya Hoo! Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

What did I win MM ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Belair, I will give special directions to Santa to drop an L-72 through your roof. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Motown

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

The Motion 454 Phase III Vega ran in the 9s.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Joe, question is, that would be a dealer built car would it not? I mean delivered thru the dealer with all the dealers of that automaker having the ability to recieve one, and also sanctioned by the automaker. I believe the Motion cars to be availible thru Motion, were they not? Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Just to clarify, the Dart [and hemi Cudas] came with fiberglass fenders & hood, and, "thin" [not acid dipped] doors. The one shock tower was relocated, but, professionally done.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Sixties, I hate to disagree, but the hood was fiberglass, fenders were light steel, and the shock towers were hammered. My brother worked there when the Darts were built and I bought mine from the owner of the company, Don Leith.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

I stand corrected on one issue, I just called my brother who informed me the first five had dipped fenders and the other 50 had fiberglass. Seems the fiberglass fenders were not shipped to Hurst for the beggining of production something to do with a problem with the molds, so Hurst sent out the fenders on the first five built and had them dipped. But the shock towers were hammered. When I bought mine from the owner it was the first one built that he had kept for quite awhile, my friend still owns the car to this day. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

I think we should check the 63 Ford Thunderbolt. I am almost sure that the 68 Hemi Darts or Cudas didn't run in the 10's from the factory. The SS/A or SS/AA record wasn't even 10:50's in 68. Even in drag trim they didn't go that fast. I am not sure I could consider those true street cars either. The 427 corvettes and the 427 camaro's were very hard to beat with tires. The Thunderbolt was as much a production car as the Hemi Darts and Cudas, which wasn't much. I would LOVE to own one though!!!

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

This is getting better by the minute! Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Weren't the Hemi Darts built at Demmer Tool and Die? Same place that built the Hurst Olds, the Super Stock AMC cars, striped some of the Yenko Deuces, and did a bunch of other low volume cars.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Anyone have a list of all the factory built racers with e.t.'s out of the box ? SD Pontiacs,Hemi Darts,Thunderbolts,Z11's etc. MM...you opened this box now get to work !!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

I would say the 68 Hemi Dart/Cuda's as well, but the point of a factory built is in question as noted before.I don't believe it was a production car or sold as such.Note the disclaimer put on all cars produced.I don't recall if the body's/mods were ever DOT aproved in 68.Only NHRA sanctioned/approved. Hurst is a lot like Motion for a comparison sake.Big difference is the Mopars were sold thru or by Chrysler not Hurst.Kind of like Demmer Eng. and the Olds.Converted by Demmer,returned to Olds and sold thru Olds.I feel they were a type of factory assy. subcontracted by GM or Mopar.I feel the gray area in the Mopar camp is if they were ever sold to be street legal and licensed as such in 68.In my opinion they were the fastest,baddest cars in A/S (?) then and now.......Oh yeah,I'll still take a boat load of 454 Vegas....that's really insane.

Ps. I did build a 440 Mopar powered 78 Monza..those cars Rock and Roll with any Big Block. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]


Steve

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

How about the infamous ZL1's? They were real fast for the first 200miles then with the incredible amount of cyclinder leakage they lost about 20% of their power. Sutliff Chevy in Harrisburg, Pa. had at least 2 complete motors stored in the back of their garage for years, they replaced some of the ZL1 motors with iron block 427's, for their customers. Very hard to beat the chevy's back then! I would still stick with the big block vette or camaro. Sam

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Mike,

------Although awesome cars,and delivered thru dealers(sic)I believe the hemi Darts and Cudas sort of violate the rules as they were not built on an assembly line.I know,I know,you are the one making the rules,so its OK.......I guess!......Bill S......ol red!

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Joe, the Darts, and mant other cars including the mid seventies Trans Ams T-Roofs were done at Hurst Performance, Brighton, Michigan, owned by Don Leith, vice president Dick Chrysler who ended up coming up with a better T-Roof design and running Hurst performance out of business to open Cars and Concepts right down the road. The same year as the Hemi Dart was also the same year of the silver and black first Hurst Olds, 1968. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Belair, ruh,roh, you mean you are giving me a homework assignment? Geeez... I will see if I can come up with a performance list in the next few days. Off to the mountains of vintage magazines, me and my big yap! Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Joe,after thinking some more about it I would say you may be correct with the motion Vega.I was reluctant to call them a mfg but the federal gov. did. Right?Where would the AMC S/S AMX fall?Car Craft give away cars,same concept as the Mopars an all the rest.Great topic,where would you draw the line as to "factory".Big three or all of the conversion cars included,Hurst,Demmer,Cars and Concepts,Motion,ect....There were some insane cars built before regulations and such.Think what might have happened if Big Brother had not gotten involved. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Steve

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Pack a lunch and report back !

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

If Big Brother had not got involved we would be like the coyote in the roadrunner cartoon, we would be flying along on a acme rocket ship that I am sure would be catching the roadrunners. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Belair didnt Hooty Spoler own that Hemi Dart......

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Catch the Roadrunners.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I sold the Monza to race a 68 Roadrunner......... [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Steve

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Bill, if we are going to have spelling class with the (sic) you might want to at least start with spelling my name right, Matt, not Mike, assuming you were replying to me. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] P.S. Is Red Alert locked in with the deal with Drew?

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

No Mr Gasser that was John Furlon

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Belair ok he was part of Red Camilos pit crew with !no big thing!.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

After the Hemi dart he went with the injected Nova called "Grumpafoot"

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

I checked my copy of "The Hurst Heritage." It says the 1968 Hurst conversion cars were built at Demmer in Lansing Mich. Cars and Concepts was founded in 1976 and bought out Hurst in 1982.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Joe, the Hurst Olds cars were built in Lansing as Oldsmobile was in Lansing which made it covienient for the conversions, however Chrysler was based in Detroit and Brighton just happens to be halfway betwwen Detroit and Lansing, the Darts were built in brighton at Hurst Performance, which may or may not have been a subsiderary of Demmer, but they were definatly built in Brighton. You are correct about the rise of C&C and the fall of Hurst, they were a few miles apart and the founder of C&C was the fprmer VP of Hurst, Dick Chrysler, who had a better product and thus the end of Hurst. Dick Chrysler eventually sold the company to the employees and went on to become a Congressman. Don Leith who was the president of Hurst still lives in the Brighton/Howell area and also has one of the original Darts from the Brighton plant. My old car is in Howell belonging to a friend of mine, Norbert. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

anyone considered the 69 yenko 427 nova?

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Here is one list The list shows the car as it came out of the box no mods done I was surprise to see the ZL-1 did not do so good out of the box This discussion could go on till the end of time Every one thinks he has the fastest car .A lot has to do with the driver , weather conditions, how the car is tuned, AND luck
Norm
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette [email protected] 350 LT5 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.80@112 427 L72 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Roadrunner [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird [email protected] 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.10@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 [email protected] 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro [email protected] 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette [email protected] 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS [email protected] 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I [email protected] 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS [email protected] 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am [email protected] 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette [email protected] 427 L88 430 automatic(?) 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra [email protected] 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R [email protected] 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 [email protected] 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 CorvetteGS [email protected] 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette [email protected] 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds [email protected] 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 351 Boss 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T [email protected] 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 [email protected] 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 [email protected] 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 [email protected] 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette [email protected] 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO [email protected] 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70
Legend:
CC=Car Craft
CD=Car and Driver
CL=Car Life
HC=Hi Performance Cars
HR=Hot Rod
MCR=Muscle Car Review

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

Just got in !!Real 1968 SuperStocker Dart (LO)For Sale
Hemi Crate motor and all the real goodies. Documented by Galen as a real Lo Dart

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

How much? Whats the numbers? Motown

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

The '64 A/FX lightweight 427 Falcon was built to, I believe, run down Thunderbolts and Hemi Darts and Barracudas and hand their ass back to them.. I believe less than a handfull were built but they were done the same way the Thunderbolt was. So they would be considered factory as well.

Re: Fastest Musclecar?
 

If we are considering non titled factory race cars as the Dart, you are absolutly correct, except the Falcon was a 65 and it was fiberglass. In 64 Dyno Don ran a factory Prepared A/FX Comet which set NHRA records. Dons best time was 10:56, the falcon turned in a best time of 9:80. In retrospect to these factory prepared cars I am now of the opinion that they should not be included in the fastest musclecar catagory as they were not allowed for street use. So guys, what is the quickest delivered from factory to dealer to customer, not including dealer built cars? Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]