How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Now that you guys where at the show, How many of those cars had the original motor?

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Bud,
I can verify that each and every car(one or two questinable) inside the convention center ,at the reunion had an original Chevrolet Engine in it.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I Know that they HAD one at one time, i want to know how many there HAVE the original motor and drivetrain? Not includeing re-stamps [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Please share with us what the purpose of your question is.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I think that the question has a major purpose. I Would like to know how many are left in the world but no one can answer that so im just wondering how many are original that where at the show. Like i said "Have the orignal motor and drivetrain, but not includeing restamps."

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I don't think that is what this group is all about. Matter of fact after spending the last 3 days with these guys I know thats not what they are about. We had a great show without anyone downing someone elses car or saying theirs is better than someone elses.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

No one can answer that either. Without intense examinations, and, lie detector tests for each of a cars previous owners, we'll never know. A figure of 50% would probably be as close as you'll get, with a margin of error of +/- 25%. Close enough? By the way, what is the "major purpose" for YOU to know this? Just curious.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Your question has a major purpose I'll give you a major answer.Doesn't matter!!!

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I think it's a legitimate question since I would find it interesting to know how many original Yenko Camaros still have their original engine. We all realize these cars were built to be run hard and that there would be quite a few casualties over time. If I had a 69 Yenko with or without the original engine, I would like to know how many still exist as a base for determining value. The good thing is that there is the list of Yenko VIN's to help prove authenticity regardless of current drivetrain.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Guys I am a little confused. Where is the consistancy here? Now we don't care weather a supercar has the original engine or not!? I have seen heated debates about cars that do not have smog or other original or correct parts on them!
Whats the deal? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

No. 1 There is no way to count,calculate or even put together a list of all remaining original engine yenkos.You would have to pay a guy like Kurt, or someone knowledgable in deck stamping , to travel the country for the next 5 years to physically look at each individual car.So lets get serious the question is unanswerable.No. 2 If you owned a yenko with a non matching motor you'd try your hardest to explain to the guy your selling it to that it isn't worth any less than a matching No. car it's the body that counts and the paperwork.I personally don't concern myself with it ,I'm more concerned the car was saved.As was stated numerous motors were exploded after purchase.As was learned last year with a matching motored yenko that was exploded the second day of purchase reappeared with a matching motor and nobody ever suspected until the original owner showed up.Wether it has an original motor the only time some people care is if they are purchasing the car. Evidently there must be some sort of mystery because sixtiesmuscle already stated it's impossible to tell and that wasn't acceptable. I'll try to answer any question reasonably,but if it's going to create some controversy like this one I'm done.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I don't see where there would be any controversy. If actual owner's wanted to answer his question on an individual basis, then maybe there would be some sort of estimate that could be made. I'm sure somebody has a pretty good list of which of the ZL1's still have their original engine. It's the sharing of information that make boards like this so beneficial.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

The best answer has been provided, no one can know for certain and the guestimate which was provided by Sixties Muscle is as accurate as can be expected given the circumstances provided. That is it no more no less. The COPO Gods do not stand at the entrance to the convention centers to dertermine who should be let in or left out based on how accurate the cars broach marks appear to be.

If you think the Reunion was about trying to figure out whose numbers matched and whose didn't I would believe that you missed the spirit of what the reunion and the Super Cars is all about.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Bud, your question is easily understood but like the others say hard to answer. Last years reunion proved that even a real Yenko could have a restamped engine. It all started when a once respected Yenko expert showed up with a 69 Yenko that he claimed was original & unrestored. Well it was pretty much that, original & unrestored, other than the engine. If it was not for the original owner of the car in question showing up at the show with the Yenko he traded the questioned car in on, it would have probably never been questioned. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] He had the paperwork for both cars and he told the story of how he had punched a hole in the side of the block the first night he had the car in question. He then traded the "blown up" car in for another Yenko the next day or two. This was not a good situation for the guy claiming his car still had the original engine it, but he could have avoided this by saying it was a "correct" 427 but had been restamped. Like copolocator says, most people would not care anyways..........................RatPack.......... ......

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Well people rather have a orignal motor Yenko rather than one thats not orignal and i think it does matter because of value????

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

While the apparent tone and maybe the wording of the inital question was not best the actual question is extremely relevant. If one figures that it doesn't matter then the pricing for a supposed "original" motored car and a non-original car would be the exact same. Any onwer of any collectible car, especially a hi-po car, will tell you there is a difference. Hell, carry it one step further and say then that since original motors don't matter then un-restored and restored cars are worth the same, since it is still a Yenko....or that a car with 100 original miles and one with 100,000 miles are worth the same...get the point. The question and resulting answers have more do to with individual owners maybe feeling "slighted," because there is a difference in the way the cars are perceived within the hobby (ie: an original motored car is always more desrirable than the same car without its original motor).

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I think you guys should pay better attention to this copo market.Nobodys paying any less for a non original motor yenko.Watch the next non original motor yenko come up for sale at the price of a matching motor.GONEEEEEEEE. THE PEOPLE I KNOW JUST WANT ONE!!!I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A DIFFERANCE BUT THE MARKET DOESN'T BEAR IT.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Maybe that is because most of the Yenko Camaros that have been for sale don't have their orig. engines. We would have to wait for a truly doc'd orig. drivetrain car to come available for sale before you could make comparisons. I think the same cars have been trading hands very quickly over the last 2 years, the best cars have been kept under wraps.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Not to rain on someone's parade, but that is ignorant. The Speculators out there are the ones moving the market up to inflated prices...actually some major specualtors on this board. The same thing happened in the late '80's early '90's...guys were out there dropping mad money on cars only to have the cars drop like a brick in a few years. I can appreciate the wanting to own a Yenko, however being realistic about the whole thing, and not left holding the bag is better in my book. If you don't believe the market will drop again, then go to the BJ auction site and look at what these same cars sold for in the '80's and then sold for again in the mid '90's. Quite a difference. Also one must keep in mind that the asking price and the actual transaction price are in most cases different.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I second that Marlin...like a lot of truly original cars these days I would guess the best examples are not being sold.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Of course it is better to have THE original engine but if the car has a restored engine with correct date code and casting number and a restamped deck that looks correct, I don't think it effects the value very much. The only way to know it really has an original block is to have all the previous owners in agreement that it was never blown up or replaced. Deck restamping has improved to the point that it is difficult if not impossible to tell. Some of the old restamp jobs were poorly done and were obvious.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Theres nothing ignorant about it .You speak of mad money no such thing .Your dollar is somebody elses ten thousand.This market could be considered an out or and investment for some of these people.Where are you going to to invest and get a return such as this one.As soon as I hear somebody says that car isn't worth that much somebody buys it.Some people are PO'd because they feel they don't have access to the SUPERCARS B.S..I've moved a couple of restorable cars from $17,000 to $25,000.Those crybabys had an opportunity but didn't take it because they didn't want one to begin with.I've seen a few people on this site want one and when I had one for sale they never called.You want one of these cars you better get out and start beating the bushes because they're not falling on anybodys lap. Now you could consider that ignorant, I consider it fact. By the way it's not my money ,none of my buisness what they spend it on.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

It is difficult to predict any market. If you bought a SuperCar in 1990 and sold in mid 90s you could have lost money. If you held it until 2002 you should have made a profit. If you think the Chevy stuff is high don't look at the Shelby stuff. The top dog Daytona Coupe (unrestored) sold for $4M.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

This is just my opinion so be gentle!! I think the significance of "Originality" is somewhat greater in the COPO cars than in the '67 and '68 cars since they came from the factory with "Number Matching " components. I also think that "Originality" does deserve a premium of (my guess) 25%-35%. I agree with Marlin that we have not seen a lot of movement in these cars. An example is the unrestored Blue Deuce that I think has sold a couple of times for a price that is justified by its originality not by its cosmetic appearance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Jim

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

One low mile original Yenko Camaro just changed hands.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I think this theory is also reinforced by the reception I rec'd when trying to sell the "CE" block Deuce. The general concensus was that with that motor the car was worth less than with number matching, which I agree (again the 25% or so). Jim

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Jim you are correct.What I am saying is these are some of the opinions of some of these people in the market!!(1) Dave will never get $42,000 for an original duece when you can get a ground off resto for the same price.Sold-twice.(2) No duece is worth $50,000-$60,000.Sold (3)Nobody's going to pay that for a rebodied camaro.Sold (4)Nobody's going to pay that for Brians car.Sold !!(5) that copo basket case isn't worth that. Sold. On and on I have more.I've had a couple of original cars and for the same price most people lean to a fresh resto because of the way judging is set up at most shows.And the reaction they get from most spectators.Sorry some people might get upset but if you condemed a copo for not having the correct drivetrain you have quite a few people PO'd at you. I personally think it doesn't dominish the value of the car,but others do.I would hate to think that somebody turns up their nose at my car because of a non original block,trans or rear!Toms show is appreciated because of the non judging aspect. When I attended or attend a show like Toms,Super Chevy, Carlise etc. I look at the car as to what it is not to if its correct.I get just as much as a thrill seeing them original the way they use to be. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] P.S. Forgot Garys red duece

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I will concede that each post has some merit, but there is one thing that is being overlooked. That is namely that the cars that are changing hands at the upper limits (or at "todays" prices) are being purchased mainly by folks that were teenagers during the heyday of these cars. It is only realistic to assume that younger (like myself early '30's) folks are not investing in a commodity such as classic cars. We might pick up 1 or 2 cars (in my case a LS6), but we are willing to look for the "realistic" priced cars (as evidence by the recent prices on some of the solid lifter cars (not COPOS) that the prices have dropped drastically when offered for sale). Automobiles as investments are great, but only if the market is constantly watched, and most younger investers would much rather invest long term in blue chip stocks than a very narrow commodity such as Yenkos. IMHO what will eventually happen is the folks that appreciate these cars (or any of the hi-po '60's early '70's) AND have the income to support the current prices will die off or loose interest in owning the cars.
Look at the model "T", the 40th Fords, and the '57 Chevy. All were big at one point, but the current prices are no where near record levels. Sure Yenkos/COPO's are rarer overall than these, but the same applies. The cars that are documented original cars, will loose less of the "inflated," value than others, but still they will drop.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I 100% agree with you but the world has gotten to the point live for today and worry about tomorrow later. Any time a conversation comes up about success or financial success one word always pops up.(chance)Some are willing some arn't.Some people are paying huge amounts of money for these cars but its only because someones asking.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Supply and demand.
Alot of the late 80's sales were from speculators. The speculators of day's past created a false demand and an artificial rally that could not sustain itself.
There is a big difference in what is going on now. Most if not all of todays sales are between enthusiasts. The seller often takes that money and puts it back into the car market with another purchase. Trading up, if you will. Today's prices are more indicitive of fair market value. The Stock market has been doing horrible and you don't see any panicked sales of these cars. and you won't. The people that own these cars want them for what they are. They really are special cars. A new Chevy duramax diesel LT stickers for almost 50 k today.
Is 80k for a copo out of line? You decide. If you are holding out for prices to retrace like they did years ago I don't see it happening.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I was surprised at the reunion this year to meet some of the Yenko owners and see that some of them are younger then I expected. When you read some of the other web sites like Team Chevelle there are many guys restoring cars as father son projects. This would not work as well with a Model A Ford as the younger guys don't seem to be interested in a 40hp car. If you show them a 400hp car that you can bring to the drag strip, they seem very interested. The Musclecars my not suffer the same loss of potential customers due to age as the Model A Fords did. By the way I have a Model A Ford. Had it since I was 15 years old. No I didn't buy it new. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

I agree with Shor, today's mkt is driven differently than that of the late 80's(enthusiast vs. speculator). I hope there are a lot of Greg's out there.We need the younger guys to keep this hobby alive. Man, I am really starting to feel old (55 last month). I want to do this for another 10-15 years or so and trade the Yenkos in on the wheelchair. It is an interesting time. LaDonna asked me a couple of years ago what it would take for someone to buy the Camaro. I gave her a number which I felt was unreasonable and now guess what?? We have turned down that offer. Gary Crawford says it best "It sorta makes ya feel dumb to turn down that much money, I wish there were worth $25000 then you could really enjoy them the way there were meant to be enjoyed!!" Maybe we could sell options. (just kidding) [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Jim

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

To make a statement that an original drivetrains do not bring a premium is just not accurrate. Yes, cars with orig drivetrains are very rare, and as such bring a premium PERIOD (150K is a premium). The truly original ones rarely sell. If we keep lowering our standards, possibly rebodied cars will bring the same money as original metal cars (I don't think so).

To truly determine if a car has the original drivetrain you need to talk to all the previous owners and verify visually the stampings on the components. Still not 100% accurate but close.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

At todays prices, kids have to buy that Honda and hop it up. Kids still like speed and style. They just can't afford it right now. My oldest son is in grade 9. When his buddies come over, they always want to look at the cars and I let them. Then you take them out for a rip, they smile is ear to ear. Kids love em, they just can't afford them, but that will change as they get older. They still appreciate style and big block power. At my kids grade 8 graduation, I took my 502 55 Chev. Every boy had his picture taken with that car, and they all had to sit in it. Tom Shaw wrote an editorial once called "Car Trek... the next generation". One of the best written articles ever!
Peter

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Can anybody tell me what Carls car sold for?Then the fathom green that sold in the same time period?

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Peter, please adopt me.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Pete, is this one of your son's friends posing with your car?

http://members.rogers.com/ldd54/70_copo_nova.jpg

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

My Goodness that is absouletly breath taking...
Why does that Girl have to be in the way.

Re: How Many Where Original Yenkos??
 

Yep.... that's one of my sons friends! You should see her sister on my Chevelle!..... Rob????????