69 Z-28 question
 

I am looking at a 69 Z-28. The ser# is 124379N680884 and the build date is 05A is the sequence # match the build date also it has a 6 redline 7 grand tach I thought that tach only came in early cars what would be the cut off for that tach.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Does this Z28 have DF or YH coded wheels?

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

I have not picked it up yet so I am not sure.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

That VIN doesn't look right for 05A. VIN 680xxx should be an 09A car. Double check that cowl tag, it could be a tag swap. Does it have the original engine/trans to verify it's a real Z28? If you're going off the cowl tag, definitely check it again.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Yes, it should have the 6x8 tach since it's a late car.
Post all the tag data and we'll see what #'s line up.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

The only trim tag info I wrote down is

712 61 61
05a x-77
So I know the tag is for a burnish brown black interior standard Z-28.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Maybe this tag belongs to the other "Burnished Brown" 1969 Camaro mentioned previously on this sight? It certainly doesn't belong to your Camaro.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

How can you tell the build date by the vin ??
STILL learning

Norm

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

CRG has a database they used to correspond the VIN to the month it was built. Jerry MacNeish's book also breaks down the approx time frame when a VIN what built. Check the rivets that hold the trim tag to the firewall, if they look like they've been messed with or if they look like hardware store rivets, then the tag has been swapped for sure.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Though the NOR body # would help confirm it, it does look like the tag or VIN has been swapped.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Since the Camaro is local I had a chance to give it a quick look it over and this is what I discovered.

First this was a poor attempt to clone a Z28, as we all know that the trim tag is not correct.

Also a 1968 Z28 tire pressure repro tag was on glove box door.

The dash and tac appear original and unmolested. A 6X7 is correct for an L78.

The manual trans tunnel is correct and original. Rosewood wheel is original GM part.

The subframe has spoiler Hole. The fire wall has the ZL2 hole(forgot to check underdash specific wiring)

The Camaro has one 3/8 fuel line.

The rear end is BT coded, 3:55 posi standard with L78 and has five leaf springs.

The throttle arm is original ZL2, seems to have never been removed. Cowl induction air cleaner and components are factory.

Throttle arm is recent and incorrect.

Has dual exhaust hanger bracket in propper location.

Body pannels are new and provide no clues.

Sub frame has big block springs, New motor mounts.

I should have checked tail pannel for black paint? Car was completely repainted.

I am confident that this was an L-78 car and not a Z28 or 307 Camaro.

What should be done, without the proper trim tag?

What should I look for in round two?

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Making a fake Z from a more rare L/78 is a new one by me...BKH

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Brian,
Since the mystery cloner did not do a very good job on the Z28, it is evident that he probably didn't know it was an L-78.
Also, I have not one ,but three stories of two Known Yenkos and One Double COPO that were dressed and believed to be Z28s!

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

I talked to a guy here in NJ a few years ago that bought a 69 SS396 from some kid and found out it was a COPO with the original 427 still in it! Apparently the kid had no idea what a COPO was and put the SS stuff on it.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Stefano, how did you come to the conclusion this WAS an L78 car? It's not hard to drill a hole in the frame and install ZL2 stuff. Did it have an untouched BB heater box? 8K tach could have been installed. Exh hanger blocks were on ANY car with dual exh..3.55 was a common rear for an SS350.

My guess this is an SS350 car with an 8K tach.and single fuel line added.. I just don't see a direct connection to an L78 in your findings..

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

First off all I stated that, I am confident of what it is. Curently there is no documentation.

Its very difficult in a brief post to note all that one would look for, or for that matter, even see.

The fuel line seemed original and unmolested and same for the mounting brackets.

The heater core and box were brand new and fresh but small block(to clone a Z28).

The frame, mounts were new/fresh small block.

The tac is a 6x7 and has in my opinion never been removed. The tac and dash was the best clue. If you follow the post, the previous owner tried to clone a Z28 not an L-78.
It is the items not tampered with or changed which provide the clues.

It could have been a 307/manual, but the 5 leafs and rear seemed untouched and the date matched the vin not the tag.

The 15x7 Rally wheels were also coded to a Monte Carlo.

The 0010 block was dated correct for 1970 but had a 302 crank in it.

An X-code, Original black tail pannel paint,lower rocker paint,??? would all help to authenticate the Camaro.

While L-78s might not be Super Cars they are however Cool Cars.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

You may want to check that bulkhead behind the rear seat and look for the X2 or X6 to verify the SS396. I've never heard of this until just recently, but people are saying Jerry MacNeish noted it.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Yes ,I have Jerry's books. In my opinion they are a great resourse and the best written on the subjects.
No, I have never found an X-code where he describes, but I am looking forward to finding one.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>CRG has a database they used to correspond the VIN to the month it was built.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this database available on the CRG website? If so, can someone give me the link? I can not seem to find it on the site. https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks,
Mike

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Mike, sorry but the CRG database is not listed on their site as they do not release the information for public viewing. Maybe Kurt S. can expand on this a little.....................RatPack................ ...

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

I think they (CRG) don't make it public knowledge because of the cloning that is going on. We need a few secrets for the honest people.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

The vin to build date sequences have been published for years and can be found in several publications.

The most recent book I have found with this info is 'Original Camaro 1967-1969 ,The Restorer's Guide to all models 1967-1969'by Jason Scott, check out page 93.

There are great color pictures of numerous Super Cars as well as some very cool Camaro's, including a real JL8 Z28 ( Registry member's Camaros are included).

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Data has been provided to the CRG with the promise of confidentiality and non-publishment.
And for the average enthusiast, the db wouldn't be of much benefit.

But I can always answer questions and check out #'s for anyone.
I also used it to generate http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#ColorPercentages.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Thanks. I thought it would be good information to keep in your back pocket. If I ever have a question I will post it here!
Thanks

Mike

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Kurt...I am still a Advocate of having a Box People can check when they supply you Data that will allow you to publish the data if the right opportunity arises. I can see in the Future something like the Shelby Regristry book.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Clill,
The 'Shelby World Registry' is a great model to try and emulate. SAAC did have a big head start, as these cars were considered special from early on.
Ford and Shelby records were released to the club when available. Members keep info on anything Shelby and do expose fakes, clones and rebodies.
While it is not 100% accurate it is still a very helpfull resource and the best of its kind anywhere.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

My Problem with what CRG is doing will never have a chance to be Public even if there is a very appropriate way to do it. I recently bought a Shelby Registry book and it was over 200.00. What if 5 years from now CRG has the Best Database on the Planet and there is a Proper way to compile and publish a book that would help the hobby and not compromise it. ? But CRG will be handcuffed from doing that because they never asked for permission from the People that donated the data ? It costs nothing to ask for permission, some may say yes and others may say no. At least then there might be opportunities to compile something for the Public in the Future. I really think it needs to be considered.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Clill,
I am with you. I am considering taking out a key-man policy on Kurt just in case something should ever happen and he won't be around to verify cars for me https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW,I know someone in that 'book' you just bought who wants to get rid of a certain
1968 GT 500 KR,so that he can pick up a Yenko. Know anyone interested?

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

I hear you Charley, and somewhat agree with you. But there are several problems.
We didn't start the db as a registry, so it was never designed as such. Much of the info in the db was gathered via misc sources (shows, ebay, bulletin boards, etc) and could possibly be released, but publishing it would help clone more cars.

As always, all someone has to do is ask and I'll check out any #'s / VINs.

btw, we shut down the data submissions via the CRG site for now, way too labor intensive.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Kurt, I'll offer assistance again with the database if you guys need help. That's what I do for a living, database programming.
Jeff.

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

Kurt,
Thanks for taking the time to help those in need https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: 69 Z-28 question
 

I too would like to thank Kurt. I give permission to post any data I have submitted.


Jason