"Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Regarding the Hugger Orange 1970 SS Chevelle LS-6 on the cover of the NEW (and last?) Muscle Car Review......I've been under the impression that ALL 1970 Chevelle LS-6's & L-78's as well as 1970 L-78 Camaros came with A.I.R. "Smog" regardless of what state sold or what plant built....If it had the solid lifter high compression motor it got smog (including the 1970 Z-28)......can someone offer any reason why the "mystery" all-original car doesn't have smog.....OR educate me on the entire subject....Thanks,
Chuck Sharin/Seattle/[email protected]

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Chuck;
I thought it was supposed to have smog as well, and I thought the water pump was a replacement with the reinforcement ribs??
M

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Maybe because it's just a Magazine article.. Chuck just wants that Air Cleaner....

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Wow...that one made all 3 of our local establishments ? Smog setup isn't terribly expensive but it reall caps off the engine compartment...even though it was probably the first thing torn off the car.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Picky Picky Picky............

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Although the white smog fans are now non-existent thanks to a certain bargain hunter

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

A certain someone didn't get my white fan.

[Edited by Keith Tedford (11-02-2001 at 10:08 PM).]

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Geez..I only got two and I ended up giving Marlin one of them as a Baby Shower Gift.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

I got so carried away writing about the "missing" smog I forgot to mention that one year only RARE air cleaner.....Not very often you even see one of those let alone a nice color pic in MCR....From what I've learned the 70 L-78 Camaros, Non-Cowl Induction 70 Chevelles and 70 L-78 Nova's.....however Chuck Hansen suggested that the Dual Snorkel was installed after Jan 1, 1970 due to some new EPA noise laws whereas the open element previously used alledgedly caused the engine to be too loud....can anybody concure with this thinking......Anyway most of the 70 Camaro L-78's Ive seen are missing this RARE item and the owner has some "excuse" story why his car has the open element......Later, Chuck

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

I was wondering when this car would come up.
Nothing Mysterious,it is not a full correct restoration.The previous owner didn't do a Frame off and didn't put all the details into the engine.You are right Chuck,it should have A.I.R. on the engine.It shouldn't have those Spark plug heat shields.It is definately a Monaco Orange paint code,it is the same as Jeffs COPO Chevelle code.
That car was floating around here in Ill. for along time.Volo,NIAB,then Midwest Auto Exchange.
All asking for 50-55K,until they found one.
I got alot of pictures of it as well as the buildsheet.It does have some interesting quirks on the buildsheet,but not the beat quality resto.No regrets passing this one up.



[Edited by mr70 (11-03-2001 at 07:30 AM).]

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

The Dual was a later production air cleaner.Open element was very noisy under WOT.So they muffled it.
One of those Dual Snorkels was for sale at the Witchita swapmeet last February.The seller,selling oil cans, wanted $100.00,but ended up taking $50.00.A very good day indeed! https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Your'e killing me here...........chuck

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

I have (2) of those air cleaners and i noticed that the CO code on the side of the base is not there? At $50.00 i will take another (2) https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Anybody reading this......having any knowledge of misc smog components for sale to fit 69/70 L-78 or LS-6 and misc D.G. pulleys and misc alt, P.S. and smog brackets
please notify me.......what is the CO code Mr Yenko speaks of......with all these air cleaners hanging around you guys can start your own reunion.......Chuck

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

The CO code is the suffix listed on the buildsheet for the Dual Snorkel Air cleaner.Also found on the side of the Dual housing is a decal that states"Keep your GM car all GM".All GM air cleaners have this decal.The Dual has the CO suffix on it also.
While at Peotone Il. swap last June,there was a Dual Snorkel for sale.It had the Snorkels completely cut off,but had the chrome lid and CO decal still intact for $25.00.Those orignal decals are hard to find in good shape...

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

The other codes are (DG) for Coul Induction
and (ss) for open element.That car is also NOT A STRIPE DELETE but a non-coul car with out the induction. When you ordered a coul inducted car it automaticly came with stripes . But you could DELETE them from a coul inducted car . And that is a TRUE stripe delete car. And i have only seen ONE in all my years around Chevelles. https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

1970 Stripe delete specific Chevelles can be found.I have seen 16 so far and their build sheets show it as well.A few did not like to advertise their cars racing appeal.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

What about the hood pins on the 70 in MCR?

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

When you ordered a working Cowl inducted hood in 1970 only.You got stripes and Hood pins automatically from the Assembly line.
You were able to Delete these stripes in this situation.But you kept the hood pins on from the factory.

This MCR car was ordered with the Standard SS bulge Hood in 1970.So it could not receive stripes or hood pins from the Assembly line.But the stripes and Hood pins were available for the Dealership to apply over the parts counter,if the customer requested that and paid extra.

This buildsheet will not show that,so we have to assume either the Dealership added the Hood pins during delivery,or one of the owners between then and now added them.

In 1971-72,Hood pins now came on working and non working cowl Inducted Hoods as standard.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

I'm not fully Chevelle knowledgeable, but I thought the stripes were available as an RPO (D96?) on a non-cowl SS hood in 70.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

As RatPack stated,D88 stripes were available from the factory on Non Cowl hoods.My mistake. https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Kurt, the stripes were optional on all non cowl induction SS models and even the Malibu's under RPO D88......RatPack..........

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Just to set the record straight. The car did not "float" around for a long time.The car was purchased by Tony down south. I sold it to a family near Chicago. They were not using the car, so decided to sell it. They consigned it at Midwest for a short period of time, it didn't sell, then contacted us, and we bought it back. We then sold it to Doug Young, a collector in Florida, who did a complete body off on the car before Tom Shaw did the article. The build sheet clearly states Monaco Orange, not Hugger. Also the car probably has more documentation than anything you "experts" have on your cars. In addition to all the factory paperwork, there was a notebook in which every oil change, tune up, part replacement, etc, was logged. Whoever the "expert" forum leader is, feel free to call me anytime at 847 526 5950 to discuss this. I probably already know you, but you wouldn't have the nuts to admit it to me. To Tom Clary- I have heard periodically that your boys like to bash people. I've talked to you personally on the phone-you are a good and well informed car person. Try to keep you slanderous "experts" on a leash- this whole thread is nothing but rumor, lies, and a big hoopla about heat shields. Why don't you guys get a life?
Randy

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

I might be stepping on your toes here, but you kinda asked for it. I really didn't find the thread to be "slanderous," as "slanderous" is spoken not written. If you want to use the correct term, it is "libel." In any event it was neither, as it was really a discussion more about '70 RPO's than anything else. Also when you go out on a limb and say that anything is the definitive example, whether concourse correct or the most documentation, you should really be able to back it up. While the car in question, is a nice looking car, it is not correct. It is well documented that LS6's used a smog setup, and I have never seen nor heard of one using spark plug heat shields. When someone spouts off about their cars correctness, and its' documentation then displays a car with these very obvious faults it makes you wonder what else is incorrect. As much as Mr. 70 (Rick P.) and myself disagree on certain issues I would like to publically say that he is one of the guys I would ask if I had a question on a Chevelle, especially a '70. The guy knows his stuff.
BTW...I can be emailed if you like...

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

In no manner did I mean that Rick is not knowledgable- I know who he is. I am simply a car guy- I don't have wishes of stardom. My only point is that the "Mystery" Chevelle was totally restored after it went to Florida and before the article was done. So posting that it "floated" around for a long time and wasn't a good resto are incorrect. Except for the few weeks that Midwest consigned the car for the people, we were the only Northern dealer that had the car. It was never at Volo, as Rick stated. My whole point is that if you are an expert in a certain field ie '70 Chevelles, etc., all the power to you- but stick to the facts, don't fabricate a story about the car's history. Unfortunately, I sell and appraise all makes and models, so it is impossible for me to know every nut and bolt of every make and model. It is too much information and I need my library of books to help me in many cases. I apologize if I ruffled feathers-Tom Shaw may be off on some points in the article-however, the truth on the car's history is as I stated, not as Rick stated. Forums like this are essential to the hobby and I support them fully. Just beware of the power you hold in your comments, and realize that many novices take your word as gospel. If you Illinois guys want to do something good for the hobby, put down the boxing gloves and let's all meet at the Feed the Children benefit Saturday, July27.Shadows of Knight and the Ripchords are playing, Mindy Novotny and WIIL 95.1 are broadcasting there, and a good time will be had by all.
Randy
PS- Greg- Books are wonderful, however cold hard fact is that things happened at the dealer and factory that the books have no info on. I have a friend that bought his '70 Chevelle new.He got involved in an argument with some concourse judges that were telling him what was wrong with his car-their books were fine, but he had the car since day one and was the only one that knew exactly how it came from the factory. Truth is, we know of examples of many mistakes-some weren't mistakes- if they ran short of a part on the line, they didn't stop the line and say
'wait guys, this will be a classic and we have to do it right" They slapped in whatever was available. Don't go overboard on numbers and codes-enjoy them for what they are.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Randy
Who are you upset with?
Me?
All who participated in this thread?
All Illinios Guys?
I have nothing against you,or this Chevelle.
I do have a problem with the way they Describe and Represent some of the cars you sell.
There was never any bashing going on in this thread.Only opinions about that featured Chevelle.
I am sure it is a very Nice car,and I wouldn't mind owning it.But not at that price,with those faults.
I know magazines can distort the facts a bit,as you stated,as there is nothing so Mysterious about this Chevelle.It just has one of the Special Order Paint codes.
If me calling this Chevelle Floating around is what is upseting to you,then so be it.This is hardly a reason to get upset about.In this day and age of people buying and selling and trading amongst themselves,its is common and not demeaning to this Chevelle.

I am not a 1970 Chevelle expert and have never claimed to be one.You labeled me that in this thread,and continue to do so.That offends me as I am just a Musclecar enthusiast like yourself.Don't put me up on that pedestal.I share my knowledge with all who ask for it as they share with me too.
I did not asign myself Forum Leader,it comes with the amount of time you spend here.Many,many more have this same title here as well.Don't take it literally.
I wish my opinion had that much weight with mankind,but it doesn't.
You as a MuscleCar salesman though,have a Responsibility to describe your cars REALISTICALLY.Take the high road.Don't mislead because other MuscleCarBrokers have deceived in their descriptions and gotten away with it.Only to have lawsuit after lawsuit later on.
Awhile back you had a 1970 L-78 Fathom Blue Chevelle that was being advertised as being built with Air Conditoning.We all know in 1970 Solid lifter engined Chevelles did not come with A/C.Yet you were claiming it was a numbers matching block to this car as built from the factory.When I looked at this Chevelle at Shaumburg Ill.Chevelle Showdown,It clearly had a completely different VIN# stamped on the block.Non matching to this Chevelle.Clearly a transplant.
The buildsheet I am holding for it is clearly an L-34 built car,with all it's respective codes.

Noone cares about how much volume sales a Muscle Car seller reports,or how much they just bought the
neighboring stores for to make room for more questionable cars.
In this day and age,you we be held accountable.
It's about trust.Look at Enron,Arthur Anderson,Worldcom,Xerox,to name a few.All deceived and got caught.
You say some people may take may opinion as gospel.Then you have the same responsibility as a Musclecar salesman.Don't sway the public with "Matching number" this and "One of One built" that.
If there is no factory documentation to support these cars,SAY IT.Don't take the attitude of "Prove us wrong" because there are no records to be found to prove this car wrong.State what is only a Fact,and not "a Maybe,who knows car".
If you are asking for Big Dollars on a car,your details stand to be criticized.That is why people nit pick the higher dollar cars more the an 18K driver.
If a restorer takes short cuts,he will be called out on them.
And don't say you are just the Broker,and the owner is asking for that selling price.
We all know you the Broker has a hand in setting the Cars price.
I am sure you have some Very Happy customers,but you must also know that you have some extremely irate Buyers.And what do they all have in common.Being Misled about a cars Heritage,Restoration or Documentation.I have many stories to tell about some certain Cars your company has sold in the past,but I will not go into detail here.It makes me ashamed sometimes to meet these buyers and see these cars,and have to say that I am from the same State and area as these Musclecar Dealers.Yes I know buyer beware,but there is no excuse for obvious ignorant deception at any price.I now you all keep track of eachother.It's a small world.
If you sell a car at a realistic price,then chances are that buyer will come back to you to sell that car in the future.Thats just good ETHICS and good Business.
Randy,I know you are a good person,so some of the tactics that are going on over there today may not be of your own wishes.If that is the case,then I would seperate myself from that employer.
Rick

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Rick, did you get writers cramp????

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Rick,
Very good point made. Hopefully you have not taken offense to me as I quite routinely refer to you as a '70 expert using your knowledge many times and also refering people to you. Keep up the good work.
Rick

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Wow! You guys are something else. This hobby is all about neat cars and people who enjoy them. I agree with both the antagonists in this thread and also disagree on some points but I certainly don't want to bust anybodys chops. And we all know that magazines are highly unreliable anyway, all they want is to sell their fishwraps. I only buy them for the pictures.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

It's not just dealers that give the hobby a bad name, there are plenty of individuals misrepresenting these cars. It just takes a few bad apples to leave the hobbyist with a bad taste in there mouth. There's good and bad in every profession but the bad deals tend to outlive the good deals. It is everyones obligation to enlighten us with the truth. If you know the history of a particular car and don't devulge the truth, you're just as guilty as the seller. It is also I feel your responsibility to be sure of the facts as a seller or enthusiast.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

There aint but one MYSTERY CHEVELLE in this one horse town...and don'tttt you ferget it!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Very well put Mr. Peters....Unfortunatly as the market goes down and car prices go up, the propensity for people to "embellish" (not refering to the Chevelle in the post, nor the delaer in question...) about any given car will increase. While I agree that there are certian cars out there that have quirks about them, unless they are fully documented (ie: original period photos for instance in the case of a no smog LS6) then Mr. Gibson's 90/10 rule (guess I can call it that...) should be used if undergoing a full frame off (with top dollar being a goal). That is if 90% of the cars would have had it, then add it since it was an obvious defect...
As far as the outright lying to misrepresent cars goes...it has always been my opinion (we all know what they are like...) that a dealer has an even higher ethical standard to uphold than a private individual...I know in reality it doesn't make a difference to the poor SOB on the other end, but a dealer is assuming some liability for product knowledge that the individual doesn't have....

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Rick
The only car that was ever at NICAB L78 with A/C was back in the early 90's. I should know-
I owned the car for 9 years-I never told anyone it was a documneted car, because there was NO build sheet-when I restored the car I only found fragments on the tank-vin # 136370L181932. By the way, it was probably a restamp but the SAME vin was on the block as the car. And yes I had it at Schaumburg-it was the year the guy with the white Chevelle kept doing burnouts on the frontage road. If you need any more info on the car, I have the file with the title history that I ran on it. As to the Mystery Chevelle, you keep overlooking the fact that the car was restored again when it went to Florida-have you seen it since? I doubt it. This guy put thousands into the car, and you're still telling everyone it's not a good resto. I'm not upset about the "floating " comment- I'm upset because you completely made up the history of the car in Illinois. What is the difference between the dealers "misrepresenting" cars and you sitting in here lying about the dealers? You proved to me you didn't know anything about the history of that car, so why say anything? As to honesty, you ask anyone you want about me. There's a few guys in here that know me well-if anything, I downtalk a car because with the uneducated Baby Boomers, we are now selling to a clientele that doesn't know where the dipstick is. And, unfortunately, many who find out it isn't a Cadillac with a Northstar System are badmouthing in many cases for no reason. I have been there 5 years and sold almost all the cars there in that time. We have replaced three engines and two transmissions for customers at no charge, have a mechanic on duty if they need to bring it back, etc. We just paid a $200 tow bill because a customer locked up a Muncie and didn;t have enough brains to go under and pop it back- he called in a panic that the tranny was blown and pick it up right away. A stupid couple in Wisconsin filed a claim with Better Business Bureau because they thought the oil was dirty and the wipers didn't work-we told them to bring it to us and we would fix-they chose BBB instead. These are old cars people, they aren't perfect and I tell people that. Our prices are on par with any other dealer, and in fact pretty much in line with NADA. I'm not just some punk that pimps cars- I'm 50. I presently own a '56 Blown Chevy that has won 2 firsts and a best of show this year. One of my cars, the '66 Pro Street Candy Brandywine Nova, was on all Popular Hot Rodding subscription cards for 2 years '97 and '98. I owned the Fathom Blue Chevelle for 9 years and a Black Cherry '70 for a year. I am one of the Chicago Wise Guys sponsors-member of IAAA and NADA Classic and Collectible advisory board-NHRA-member #19 of ACES, owner of www.nofearmotorsports.com and www.autosinfo.com.Point is, I live the hobby 24 hours a day- I don't know when the last time was that you were at NICAB in person to see the place, but it is 1000% different from the days in Buffalo Grove and at the pole barn by the house. And the quality of cars reflects that. Of course, when you sell a volume of cars, there will be problems- some can't be helped- but who do you know in the country that has a 100% trade in policy and really does it? That means you get exactly what you paid for the car on a trade as long as you trade up. I just did one today. Not all of our buyers are like many of you, with frequent flyer miles and the time to travel all over to save a few hundred on a car. You need to shut the computer down, walk outside, and update your information on the people you talk against. There is not one point you made in the thread that was the truth. And as to the hood pin, stripe, cowl debate-file this with the proper shade of color for the wheels-unsolvable. In truth, we all know the factory option was all three together, but that ANY combination came from the factory and that the dealers all had stripe kits and pin sets to even mix it up more. By the way, there is no deduction for any combination you have unless the judge is a fool. Enough said.
Randy

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

O.K. Mr70, you are now the Anti-'70 Chevelle expert.

Whatever you do, please do not stop sharing your knowledge and passion for Muscle cars, especially because of this thread.

BTW, thanks for all your help past and present! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Reduece...I'm confused, has the car been Restored since the Magazine article ? In a earlier post I think you say it was restored before Tom Shaw did the article.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Charlie
Thank you for recognizing the main point of my post. The car when we had it was a good frame up, but definitely not concourse. We never said it was. The whole selling point of the car was that it was rare in that it was a Monaco Orange, stripe delete,cowl delete,numbers matching LS6. In any collector's mind, that is a rare car. In a world where fake cars abound, we had a build sheet, window sticker,original bill of sale,original financing papers,along with the log of the first 10 years of ownership including every oil change, tune up, etc. along with all the receipts for any work done. We also had the receipts of the frame up that was done on it. I agree with Rick that at that time it was not a perfect resto. There were aftermarket parts on the car, BUT all the original parts were in boxes in the trunk. BEFORE the article was done, the new owner rerestored the car- including pulling the engine, stripping and repainting the undercarriage,doing the interior, and installing all the parts that were in the trunk. Shaw did the article AFTER this restoration, and I know no one around here has seen it, because the car hasn't left Florida since the resto. In my opinion, I didn't think it was fair to label this car as a poor restoration that was overpriced, floated around all the dealers, and wasn't really rare, it was just an orange LS6. Comments like this could hurt the owner's chances of selling the car, because people come here to gain information and help. Again, in no way do I question Rick's knowledge of Chevelles. However, I also have a fair knowledge and experience with Chevelles , and I can tell you as this car is today- it is a rare, nicely done, documented, investment quality car. I work every day- if anyone has questions or just wants to talk about cars, call me.
Randy

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Mr C. Lillard,
Since it has been documented with Spy photos that you have owned at least one LS6 Chevelle ,can you help clearify the Cowl delete and stripe delete "option" on a non cowl non stripe Chevelle?
I just keep getting more and more confused? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Randy,
Welcome to the board ,BTW. I have a question regarding the Monaco Orange LS6. Were the magazine photos before or after the final Restoration?

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

redeuce, I cannot figure out what you are talking about on your description of this car. What does your documentation state? I am not a 70 Chevelle expert but as far as I know it cannot be "cowl delete" because CI was an option that needed to be ordered. It cannot be "stripe delete" because stripes were an option that needed to be ordered unless you ordered CI. If you ordered the CI option the car came with stirpes. I would have to see the trim tag info and build sheet but, the only nonstandard item I see with this car is the special paint. I have a special paint car so I wish SP did ad a great amount to the value but I do not see this reflected in the marketplace.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Stephano...I have owned a bunch of LS6's but any knowledge I gain I usually forget in about 2 weeks. I am absolutely not the person to give a opinion on this subject. My question about the car relates to the missing smog and the spark plug shields. Is that how the car sits now after the extensive Restoration or were those things corrected. If that is how the car sits now, then I would also question the correctness of the restoration. As forgetful as I am, I am sure that they all needed smog and do not need spark plug shields. It doesn't mean it isn't a neat car, just that it might need more attention if you wanted to bring it up to a Standard where you could comfortably have it Judged at a National level.

Re: "Mystery" Chevelle LS-6 in NEW Muscle Car Review???
 

Charlie
I talked to the owner today and he is removing the shields. The smog will have to be ordered. He is selling the car right now for 59,000, and in my mind with the market for LS6's as it is, that's a deal. I fully understand you all in here are going for concourse cars all the time. My point is, someone in here has to realize that the fact that it was so fully documented, has the original motor, and is a rare color and NON stripe car, I would not shy away from it just because it has heat shields that take 20 minutes to remove and needs a 15oo smog set up. Email me if any of you have interest.
Joe C.-How many Monaco Orange plain jane, original motor LS6 Chevelles have you seen? How many plain Jane Monaco Orange LS 6's were made? 10? 100? If you don't think that makes it a rare car, then OK. I think it's a rare car. I know the difference between non cowl and cowl delete- and you know exactly what I meant- I don't send my email to a proofer before I post it. The car is a Monaco Orange, NON COWL, NON STRIPE CAR.