Has the world gone mad? Car prices...
 

OK, I'm all about a nice '70 Chevelle SS but 47K and reserve not met? 3 days to go? I realize it's got the goods, buckets, console, cowl induction and Black to boot but 47K? I'm hoping the top tier bidders have confirmed the numbers matching claim for that kind of money.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19418918496...p2471758.m4703

FOMO......Fear of Missing Out. some people read those ads and think they are gospel and have not felt the burn of a bad purchase and just click and bid without being fully informed. I have seen numerous six figure cars discussed on this site that trade hands but are known (to those that ask the question) to be clones or not #'s matching as claimed. In some ways, the people doing this keep the prices moving along and we all benefit. I had a friend that got burned years ago on a Nova SS bought out of Chicago. Was nowhere near what it was represented to be and he was told by an attorney to treat it like an expensive lesson. Litigating across two states would be more expensive than anything he would recoup.
PT Barnum said "there is an ass for every seat" and he wasn't wrong.

I'm copying this from the eBay section in the classifieds because Lynn stated it so well:

Tony:

1. Inheritance. Lots of older people dying and HUGE amounts of wealth being passed on to middle age guys. People my mom's age (she is 92) have lived frugally since the depression. I had some clients (H & W) that died fairly recently that were still living in a 900 square foot rock house out in the boonies. They were worth $12.1M.

2. I realize some will disagree, but I believe that MANY small businesses applied for PPP loans that were forgiven, AND received very favorable tax breaks in the process. Freed up a lot of cash. While the $1200 check doesn't allow Bubba to spend stupid money on a car, Bubba's small business employer may have benefited way more than that. Just one example of some windfalls that were unintentionally created with the hand outs.

The way my business is set up (and a lot of others) I COULD have applied for a loan and made a big windfall. I did not because the pandemic really did not affect me that much.

Just the first round at $2.3 Trillion comes out to about $7,000 per person in the Country. If Joe Sixpack (and many others) only got $1200, that's a lot of unaccounted for scratch.
__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the internet ... Ben Franklin

My opinion: Inflationary pressure, crypto is being pressured by Fiat and the colonial pipeline so called “hack”, the stock market is in a bubble-overdue for a reset-and finally the FED is pumping endlessly.

The cars are not appreciating as much as the perception of tangible value is.

Unlike Bitcoin, collector cars are a tangible asset.

I think the inheritance comment can't be generally true, only because there are always people dying and always people inheriting money. If that is constant then what is causing the recent spike in car prices. I think PPP might have impacted that like Mark said.

Speculating, maybe also individuals have saved more money for the last 14 months since many were not commuting, and also able to travel for leisure.

Add selling a House today to Lynns List.
A friend of mine got in over her head 13 years ago and paid way to much for a House,as the economy tanked right after the closing...She had to beg borrow & steal to keep her head above water for nearly as long,as she wanted to move,but her current House value price plummeted and she couldn't absorb that kind of a loss.
So she stuck in out for some 13 years,and by God,house prices last year predicted she could not only get back her initial buying price from 13 years ago,but get a heck of a lot more over that too.She also sold it w/o a realtor,and sold it for 3X more then she paid,as everyone ran from Covid in the cities and overpaid in the rural Suburbs.
Today she is living with her boyfriend in his childhood house.When the house prices eventually soften and we no longer have to pay OVER a sellers asking price as they take the highest offer,the 2 plan to sell his modest childhood house and take the nearly 500K she has burning a hole in her pocket and buy a nice House that she could never imagine owning as a waitress.

Today's high prices are tomorrows bargains..........

Honestly doesn't seem like a ton of money to me for something like that.

I mean if the car is as presented then in my opinion it's right in the ball park providing the reserve is say.....$48-50k??

The way I look at it, I see base model cars sell for $30-$40k that technically aren't even muscle cars. Cars like 307 camaros, or like the 68 firebird with a 350 in it currently on ebay, bid to like $25k right now and reserve not met on that one. Really? It's just a base firebird with no options, other than a stick poking through the floor it has no appeal. My opinion that one is already beyond the money it's worth.

For my money, I'd rather have a real muscle car, and the prices I'm seeing for base model stuff, it's not much more to get into a real muscle car. $50k for a 70 SS 396 does not surprise me. Step up the engine option in these cars and the price can more than double.

Stock market gains are at least some of it. S&P up 700 points or so in a year. 500K in an IRA that's a pretty good gain. If you are old enough for RMDs and don't need the money might as well buy something.

I'm sure there are other, maybe many factors, but I'll bet this is at least one.

Barret Jackson Las Vegas is next week, I'll go if I can get off work. To look (and eat and drink), not buy lol.

Its called inflation......the 47k he wants for a 70 chevelle will buy 25k worth of groceries at last years prices...

You wanna talk crazy money for a 1970 Chevelle? How about $165K for a bench seat, column automatic 350hp 396?

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...-SS-396-244568

Has the world gone mad? Already there and coming back the other way

With a Chinese booster too.....

That probably held the bidding back another $5K.

Regarding the inheritance; I don't believe it is the MAIN factor. Even though I numbered them 1 and 2, I didn't mean to imply that was an order of priority or importance.

It isn't just that people are dying. It is the generation of folks who are dying; people that saved all their lives because the depression scared the chit out of them. I went to see my Mom after work today. She was wearing a robe that she made about 10 years ago. She still wears a winter coat she made. She didn't have a "store bought" dress til she went to high school. She mowed her own lawn until she turned 87. My Dad never finished HS and never made any decent money. My Mom stretched it beyond belief. Dad was making less than $5,500 per year in 1968, and they had four boys all in private schools. My Dad made the dining room table that is still in Mom's house. 40 years later, and it is still gorgeous. I didn't live in a house with central heat and air until second semester of my Sr. year in HS (1971). No big deal if you are in San Diego; big issue in central OK.

To that add this: over 572,000 more people died in 2020 than in 2019.

I am in the estate planning arena and I am a financial advisor. I have seen more money changing hands from one generation to the next in the last 10 months then any other 10 month period in the last 30 years. Granted, I am a tiny sample, but I believe, talking to colleagues around the country, that the trend is nationwide. Not ALL of the baby boomers who are inheriting are blowing it on cars. I have MANY new investors that inherited their money, and they are frugal folks. But not all of them are frugal.

I guess in the grand scheme of things there are worse cars for the money but 50K for a L34 automatic? To be honest I like cars like this that look presentable and can be driven but close to 50K is an eye opener for me. Makes me think I should sell a couple off and reload when the market corrects itself. IDK...

I also believe the pay roll protection money has been a major factor in the recent prices. If you watch the auction I would say about 70 percent of the buyers are business owners. If your business is anything other than a restaurant you may very well be stronger than normal. Now on top of that the government will just hand you 2.5 months of payroll and all you have to do is keep your people employed which you were going to do anyway. Now take 2.5 months payroll times lets say 100 people. It is found money its not a loan and the cut off is up to 500 employees. What would you do if you found half a million dollars?

Within the next 25 years, we will see the largest wealth transfer in history as Baby Boomers pass an estimated $68 trillion down to the next generation. << I copied this. I think it has some traction!

Buy cars...lol

I guess it's all how you put things in perspective. When I see base model cars like a clean 307 camaro grab over $30k I just view a real muscle car like this 396 Chevelle (L34 or not) as a better bargain.

I think it's more crazy people pay $30k and up for a base model run of the mill car just because it's a 50 year old classic. So it doesn't make sense to me that the same people that go nuts over a clean 2 barrel nova or camaro feel that a real SS 396 Chevelle, a factory black car no less, shouldn't be more money. :dunno:

I agree it's an eye opener, and 20 years ago I would have never thought I'd have to pay $50k for an SS L34 Chevelle. But it seems everything, even the stuff we'd consider cheap $5 or $10k cars with smog engines is now priced 3 times that, so it only seems natural the real muscle cars, even the L34 Chevelle that I'd consider a base muscle car for that model should also go up in price.

The balloon can only hold so much air before it bursts…

Barrett Jackson has big balloons. Lol

Don't cash in your retirement savings and start buying cars because the next generations after us could care less about an original muscle car. Cars are strong now but I also feel the balloon is about to break. Despite the fact that the politicians in charge don't want to admit it inflation is everywhere you look and when that happens it effects everything even old cars. Maybe it is the last fling of our generation before giving up. I know it was a lot more fun when we could buy a nice restored muscle car for 30 or 40K and not have to mortgage the house to do it.

Also I think guys that love muscle cars are getting to the age where it is now or never. I know that is the case for me at 61.

Yeah I have seen this too. It's said that each generation's perspective is very much shaped by recessions (and the depression).

There might be even more factors out there, fast wealth creation for some folks for example.

US population is aging as well.

69 Trying to buy a 69
 

Yep, You guys are spot on.....The older guys like me ( 69 ) are wanting to buy a nice muscle car before they are too old to shift the gears....I have been looking for a nice 69 Camaro Z/28 or SS/RS since last fall. The only problem is I want one at a reasonable price and I just can't bring myself to spend 90 to 120K for a 69 Camaro. Its looking like I'm going to have to wait until next year ( or later) ...Then I will be 70 looking for a 70....:burnout::burnout:I really want a 69....Its just too crazy right now....Is there anyone left out there who is willing to sell a Camaro and not try to make a killing of a profit. The bubble will BURST someday guys,,,get it while you can......

Im glad i bought mine in the 90s i thought 16 to 20 grand was high then

I remember these same conversations in 2006/7.

1988/89 too..

dealers are ruining it just as much...my brother had a ss clone shadow gray 70 chevelle he sold to a dealer for 34K dealer had it on their website and sold for 65 in two days. i wouldn't have given 25 for it..people are easily financing these cars and buying them sight unseen

It's the curse cycle of the 9's. 29..depression. 59,69, 79..big time recession. 89, 99 09 came early. 19 then we had it going great. Now, don't know???? But it may come early again! Just my thoughts.

If you ask me, it went nuts over 20 years ago.

I constantly wish it was back in the day. Nothing grinds my gears like hearing someone brag that they bought a muscle car for $500 back in the day. Thanks for reminding me those days are dead and all most of my friends can do is look at this stuff wistfully.

I don't know, what I'm typing here and my actual thoughts are a touch different, as out of respect for everyone here I'm toning it down, but the whole "collector/investor" mentality has never sat well with me. I realize that puts me at odds with many here (although I hope it's 'agree to disagree' odds) These cars were built to race and destroy tires at a decent price for a new car at the time, not sit in a bubble or get trailered from auction to auction while people speculate on them. Hence why my signature ends the way it does. The most fun I've ever had is wringing these cars out. That's why my grandfather bought them and that's why I always admired them.

I'm on board with you there. I've always felt these cars were meant to be driven, raced, and enjoyed. We daily drive our stuff, although with current prices I'm wondering if I should rethink my wife driving a 69 RS Z everyday.
Either way, I love racing the cars. Beat the snot out of my bird at the track at every muscle car event I can find, then drive it every day. Also love racing my Chevelle and a couple others when I feel like it. I've always been all about driving these cars and not the least bit interested in anything new. We don't own a new car.

Current prices though I don't complain. It's the same thing I've seen progress and happen since the first surge in the late 1980s. And everyone on the market to buy complains and wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible while everyone that wants to sell wants every penny :shrug: I've even seen the same person on both sides of that coin and just shake my head. I don't care, I'm not selling anything and have no desire to buy something else. I'll just continue to drive them until I'm gone or until gas is gone, which ever comes first.

Money and cars are just "stuff" You can always get more stuff. It's way more fun to experience and feel the joy that these machines give us. I HATE to see a 20 mile GNX. I mean what's the point?

Yep, and I've had quite a bit of disgust towards me from other car enthusiasts in the past for buying low mile survivor cars and then driving the wheels off them. They don't get it.

We had a 71 454 vette that was a Bloomington survivor that scored pretty high, had 32,000 original miles. My wife then proceeded to daily drive it for 2 years and I took it to the dragstrip 2 or 3 times. Boy did the corvette people hate me for that LOL. After we had our fun with it I sold it about 15 years ago, it had 49,000 miles on it :grin:

I did the same thing with a 92 GMC Typhoon, although not as expensive, it was a nice low mile example. I put about 30,000 miles on it over a 3-4 year period before I sold that one.

My 70 Formula had 60k original miles when I bought it 25 years ago. It now has 170k miles and that's doing some sitting for periods of time for various reasons. My wife has already put almost 50k miles on the 69Z in the last 5 years. :3gears:

Everything costs more.

Compare the cost of a paint job today vs 20-25 years ago.

Years ago, beating on my all original drivetrain LS-5, M-22.

https://i.postimg.cc/vBDDt645/Nov-27-001.jpg

I have had a very original 69 RS/SS 396 convertible for over 25 years. I drive it frequently, and it's just a good, honest old car. These prices have actually got me thinking about putting it on the market. I also think we are in a bubble, partially due to stock market speculation. It reminds me of what we were seeing back around 2005/06. When the economy tanked around 2008, the prices of most musclecars had a major correction.