Berger Chevy #3 ZL1
 

I've always wondered how Berger got the #3 car. Gibb ordered the first 50 cars,correct?

Well, not exactly.

The #3 ZL1 [N608193] has body number 211785. The Gibb ZL1s were 222001-222049 & 240022. That makes #3 the first ZL1 ordered. In an interview in one of the mags years ago, someone at Berger had a bud at Central Office and learned of the COPOs. Berger initially placed orders for 2 9561 COPOs, 211785 & 211786. Sometime later, 211785 was changed to COPO 9560.

211786 still exists as N608586 L72 4-speed 72 B 711.

Working with some people that are researching the ZL1 engine story. They have amassed many internal docs from Chevy. The ZL1 Camaro project appears to have been in the works prior to Fred Gibbs' involvement.

Short answer: Gibb couldn’t sell all the ones they got initially (@$7K a pop!!). So they were redistributed to other dealers?

This is what i read too. Other dealers picked them up.

I thought a large amount actually went back to Norwood, and were redistributed from there. Gibb may have dealer x'fered a bunch as well.

Gibbs cars had an msrp of over $7,300. In current dollars, would anyone pay $88,000 for a 2020 Camaro? No idea why Chevy thought they would sell.

Said it many times: they should have been L88 Camaros. Just as fast and much cheaper.

Yes, most of the Gibb ZL1s were sold by other dealerships. Imagine getting a bill from GMAC in 1969 for $275,000. He would have been bankrupt if Chevy didn't agree to take them back. Even those dealerships had problems selling them. Chevy should never have allowed other dealerships to order them. All they needed to qualify as production was 50 cars. By April, there were maybe 40 ZL1s rotting on the lot at Gibbs. Yet Huffmans Chev in Farmington, IL [65 miles from Gibb] ordered two more, orange and silver 4-speeds. Just like many of the cars at Gibbs.

The L72 cars weren't much better. Yenko stated in the famous MCR interview that they had a similar experience with the L72 cars, albeit for a different reason-insurance. It was darn near impossible to insure any musclecar starting in '69. They quickly became near worthless in trade. I recall seeing a Superbird for sale in the '70s; $995 obo. It was that bad. Then the oil embargo hit and it got worse.

Is there a group photo somewhere of all these @ Gibbs place that was taken back then?

I've read about some of the Gibb cars being taken back and sold by other dealers,but figured #3 was too early of build to have done that.
William, you answered another question of mine on body numbers. The Berger 9561 I owned is body number 206xxx,as were the rest of the early order I've seen. Can I assume Berger was in very early on on the 9561 cars also?

Don't know of a Gibb ZL1 group photo. Would have been impressive but all 50 were never there at the same time.

Berger was definitely one of but not the first. Emmert Chev also had a hook at Central Office and is supposed to have ordered 20 L72 COPOs. Several were RS, some special paint. 4 still around. Earliest is N591194, built on or about Feb 4 a month prior to the first Berger COPO.

I'm aware of the Courtesy COPO N578203 but it remains controversial.

William,any idea how Gibb reacted when Berger got the #3 car and can you say what was the possible issue with the Courtesy COPO?

Thought this was appropriate now for this conversation .

I just took pics of the original paperwork from my former ZL-1 number 34.

GM car shipper list price of $7269.35 with the $4160.15 COPO 9560 option.

Complete Auto Transit shipper receipt when car arrived at Gibb Chevrolet dated March 7 and recieved March 11.

Letter on Gibb letterhead documenting Complete Auto Transport, Inc. picked up car from Gibb on May, 24th to be shipped back to Norwood plant.

I also have paperwork where car was redistributed to Govan’s Chevrolet in Baltimore, Md and finally sold in June of 1970 for 4800 bucks !!

The bud that owned ZL1 #4 at the time was also a Chevrolet dealer. He made the trip to La Harpe to visit Fred. Never said anything about it.

The main issue with the Courtesy COPO is the window sticker, done on a manual typewriter.

One question for William.. on the Complete Auto Trânsit form, I believe that is a protective-plate imprint with the BE SILVERS .. any explanation about that ! I always wondered....also milage 399? Someone at GM could not resist a few test drives? Haha

Thanks

That is probably the name of the truck driver.

399 miles was the distance from La Harpe, IL to Norwood, OH.

If i remember correctly , Jim Mattison, who worked in Chevrolet Fleet and Special Order department had some relationship to Berger either family or dated the daughter?

I used to email with him after sending him copies of COPO paperwork that was found with a Yenko Camaro

He said he became friends with Don Yenko and flew on Don's plane with him a few times to go to races. He said Don got him a doctor's note saying he was sick when he wanted to skip work to go to a race

here is an article with info on Jim M

https://www.chevyhardcore.com/featur...tory-approval/

pretty good article but some info is old and not correct

I was in contact with Jim about 10 years ago,and he told me the same.

Always thought BE was for the rear.. haha.

When B Porterfield contacted me, he said that he thought that he had my protector plate info. But turned out not. Apparently he did have some.

Thanks

Dealers had to perform a PDI; pre-delivery inspection. It was on a form that had several copies. The procedure required a pop imprint.

Here is the imprint from ZL1 #9. Not giving away any secrets here; 250,000 people saw this at B-J.

In post 11, does that auto shipping doc state:
"Subject to working hours inop"

Wonder what that meant? Just curious.

/Rich

I think that says "subject to working hours inspection" :burnout:

Yes that is correct... subject to working hours insp.

I can see the car was actually picked up at 6 PM .. after hours I would guess.

But didn’t the first two cars end up arriving late at night ?

My old car 34 is an 02D car. Those engine and rear dates are pretty tight. They sure did not sit around after assembly !

William can tell us for sure,but I think the hold up,at least some of the time, was getting the BE's built and down to Norwood.My rear end and build date of the car,were very close. As were two body number COPO's on either side of my car.

the Courtesy (OH?) COPO...red L72 car?

I think Jim Mattison made that statement in an interview. But that was also true for Z/28s-Chevy stopped taking orders for them Nov '68 because dealer orders exceeded their capacity to build 302 engines during normal order lead time.

Some components were in continuous production based on a sales forecast-307 engines, powerglide transmissions, etc. That stuff was always in stock. COPOs were not forecast; Z/28s probably were but they guessed wrong. In those days, dealer orders were transmitted to the plants for Production Control to plan material. When they saw COPO orders due 4 weeks out, they ordered BE axles in whatever the unit quantity was, probably what a shipping rack held. That's why the dates are so close. There are 33 known BE axle dates and 1,066 COPO Camaros so 33/1066 = 32. Maybe had to order them in multiples of 8. When the axle plant notified Norwood PC that their order of of BE axles shipped, Norwood could release COPO production orders.

Axle availability was not what held up ZL1s #1 & #2 [final-assembled Dec 30] based on this POP imprint. My guess: ZL2 parts.

IIRC, Mattison dated Emmert's daughter.

Chevy gave a ZL1 engine to Motion Performance for testing in 1968

They tested it in the 1968 Motion Camaro drag car

there was magazine article on it in 1968

I posted the article years ago