Hidden VIN does not match VIN plate or paperwork
 

By any chance has anyone hear ever purchased a car or done any kind of business with Sabetta’s Classics in Orville Ohio? One of our customers purchased a 69 Camaro Convertible from them that was supposed to be a SS but after looking closely at the car it turns out that it is just a regular Camaro, not a SS. After digging deeper it is not only a cloan SS but the hidden VINs do not match. :dunno:This is the first musclecar the buyer has ever purchased so he is learning the hard way. He has been calling them and trying to contact the dealership but they will not answer or return his calls. He asked me what his what his options are and I told him I would look into it.....
Mark

Leave them a voicemail letting them know if you don't hear from them you will be contacting the police. Might very well be a stolen car they sold your customer.

“Oh what a web we weave.....” Curious to see how this plays out.

i wouldnt even leave a message...just call the cops..they will handle it all...

prob not stolen...just a re-tag...still fraud..

lawyer up so you have representation and hang 'em high

What Charley said :)

I curious too! I'll be watching. Where did our popcorn smiley go?

There is really no way to determine what the car was or if even stolen. Could be a VIN 123 or 124 car. For some reason one of the #s come back stolen you would definately lose the car on the spot. Even with mismatced VINs could they take the car? Think I would do a little homework myself first and work the dealer.

Yes there is. There have been cars found in recent years reported stolen eons ago. And, any of the numbers found will be suspect. If something doesn’t check out, it will be confiscated. But why would the buyer want to keep a tainted car anyway? Like said, fraud, at the least. The fact the dealer does not want to address this makes it appear they were aware or complicit in the car’s dubious past.

Yes. The fact that any number does not jive, spells deception. Best to get the law involved, and soon, before those guys ( sellers) leave the country.

I would also be concerned about the car being confiscated. I wouldn’t want to be the last guy holding the bag. After losing the car, you may or may not be able to get your money back. It sounds like a lose-lose situation however you look at it. I would try to work with the dealer first before getting the law involved.

I would contact Bryan Shook who is also a member here, he specializes in these kind of cases. His webpage is vintagecarlaw.com

Bogus car...
 

I just went to the dealer's website...they list the BBB logo and also membership in the state dealers association. Might be worth contacting those two organizations to see if they can help. I know that in NY the dealer associations don't like any fraud issues...a little pressure from these two might get a favorable response.

-wilma

Back in the 80s I saw quite a few cars re-bodyed. Five that come immediately to mind. Nothing was really known about the hidden VINs (by these guys or me) , and when pointed out (I actually spotted the cowl VIN on a disassembled 69 COPO Camaro body) these guys didn't really care. In their minds, it was far more important to have a perfect body than worry about that. In some cases, they built a car out of the leftovers so it was like a double hit (in later years, two 69 Chevelles got particularly sticky as the two owners tried to figure out a solution). I was just an observer in all this, but most of the cars were sold for high dollars, and as more info became available in later years I figured these buyers lost some big money. Mind you, this was never to hide stolen stuff, but the State police/DMV doesn't see it that way. In MA, at the very least they are going to take the car, and IF (BIG if) you get it back, it will have a state VIN and they will keep the GM tags (even the trim tag). I'm very familiar with this as I've seen people lose cases and frames of motorcycles for the smallest Discrepancy (the state police stood over one guy I know while he disassembled his engine so they could take the cases just because they didn't like the VIN)

I would say it helps that a dealer sold the car (but it doesn't help the dealers case being cagey about not addressing the issue) But I still would bet the police take the car, and it will be a long drawn out process. Like 69L78 said, lawyer up and quick.

'


Sad situation but being the one who notifies the feds may be best, not them find out otherwise and show up?:hmmm:
Best of luck w/ everything!
~ Pete

.

----I know of three of those 5 cars, Joel!......Bill S

As I see it, there are three options:

1. Continue to try to contact the dealer and if successful, work out a trade of some kind; he takes the Camaro back and your customer picks out another car of equal value - one where there are no VIN issues. The probability of this happening IMO is good. Asking to return the car for a full refund . . . not good.

Why hasn't the buyer gone back to the dealer's location and brace him there?

2. Contact the local police and bring the issue to their attention. Best case; they give the car a State VIN and remove GM VIN tag(s). Will also require reregistering and retitling the car along with insurance company notification. Worse case; one of the VINs is on a stolen car list and your customer loses the car. Now he has to bring suit against the dealer to recover his funds. That involves an attorney so he will be upside-down no matter what.

3. Do nothing. I know that may sound a bit reckless but at this moment, your customer has a car he wanted and can drive it. The only issue is that he can't sell it. He now knows there is a VIN issue. As the buyer he can claim ignorance . . . but as a seller he can not.

Yep Bill, I bet you know all five of "em. I'll have to privately relate the COPO Chevelle story to you. It's actually quite humorous when you are not involved....

Lawyer FIRST


cops second

Give Bryan Shook a call, it does not cost anything for a phone call.

Bryan Shook
717-884-9010
[email protected]

Mark, like others said, LAWYER UP ASAP now. Better to get ahead of the wave then under it. THAT will give him options.

Others have said the same thing. BUT the fact you say they are now NOT returning or not answering is one GREAT BIG red flag to me. From the website, they make it out like this Rick Sabetta has

"painstakingly restored"

hundreds of classic automobiles, during which time he has developed a passion for 1960-70s muscle cars. He hand-selects each car from sources all over our nation, returns them as close to original condition as possible, then offers them for sale.??? So if that is in fact the case, seems he might know more than he's letting on to. Or at least knew about this issue and didn't disclose it?

Hate to see someone get burned like your customer. But seriously get a lawyer involved. I would have the lawyer issue a letter to FULLY REFUNDS ALL COST involved INCLUDING any and all legal fees. From the guys own website, he has 24 yrs of doing this. So therefore misrepresenting this Camaro as an SS, would this not also constitute fraud charges over the VIN issues as well.

IF the shop doesn't want to refund the $$$, then have the lawyer start proceedings and have local law enforcement involved. Then there is the whole over state lines stuff and other cans of worms like getting the local NEWS involved on your customers behalve as well as warning on social media.

BUT get legal council, protect yourself before this goes any further.

Good luck

My guess is the dealership has already contacted an attorney. Thus the reason he will not speak with your customer directly. Most likely waiting to see how the car owner is going to proceed. I agree with most, get a lawyer before your buyer says anything to the dealer that may hurt him further if legal proceedings are needed. Hope the best for the Camaro owner and all involved. Hate to hear about these things happening in our hobby, it's supposed to be a hobby to give us peace and joy. Not heartache. Rob

Sound like something out of East Germany Staasi Police in the 1960s or 1970s, not the "Land of The Free"
Wow.

Is the VIN number way off or close? Could it be a DMV error?

I think what the OP means is that the hidden VIN stamps do not match what is on the VIN tag. I’ve seen the hidden VIN off by 1 digit from the factory, but anything other than that is usually a rebody.

if that dealer was smart they would take it back immediately.

Good catch EZNova, Mark have that website copied or just do some simple screenshots of these claims before they make any changes. This would go to the dealer "knew or should have known" portion of any legal action an attorney will write. Copy anything that brags about his knowledge of cars, restoring cars and can show his expertise. This should lay a foundation for the attorney to write the suit.

Also, the attorney (and I also recommend the lawyer here) will have to be familiar with VINs and ConVins and lemon laws of that state as well as federal statutes (since it passed state lines).

Finally, the dealer may (should) have liability insurance for these things, and a lawyer will be able to negotiate with them direct and even if the dealership does not want to settle they (the insurance) might rather than have to have a duty to defend on a costly suit.

My .02,

/Rich

Hello All,

Sorry to bring an old thread back to life. I have been on the camaro5 forum for years and this is my first experience in the classic car world.
Anyway would the original poster be willing to contact me via pm and possibly let me know whatever happened with this?

I recently purchased a 1967 Chevelle SS from Sabetta’s Classics in Orrville OH. My situation is not nearly as extreme as the original author of this thread but anyway here is the story:

I viewed and agreed to buy the car on 05Apr2025 and placed a $500 cash deposit. I had originally saw the vehicle listed on a Hagerty marketplace auction but had never bid on a car. The auction ended and I found it listed with the same trim tag and vin on Sabatta’s website. I spent Sat/Sun night in Wooster, OH and returned on Mon 07Apr2025. I had rented a U-Haul trailer to tow the vehicle back to Chicago IL. On Monday I arrived and gave them a cashiers check for the balance. I had never towed a car and the owner Rick stated he would drive it on the trailer and they would strap it down with me.
When I returned home I really got to looking at the car. Between Sat and mon they replaced the front seats in the car I purchased with the seats from a blue 67 Malibu they had for sale. How do I know this??
I have photos from their eBay add and their website of both cars interiors. I also have videos saved of their YouTube videos of both cars. I also have the video of the car when they bought it on hagerty marketplace.

I know have a drivers seat with a hole on the middle of the seat and a hole on the side of the seat that both have black tape over them. Also instead of having all black seats with no chrome emblem, I have a rear seat with no chrome emblems and front seats with the chrome placard on the backrest.

So I will say I do blame myself for not catching this before I drove away with the car but at the same time I didn’t think the car would change in 2 days. Can I afford the get the front seats refinished, I suppose I can eventually, but it’s the premise that I can’t let go of.

Sorry for the long post, just need to vent. I’m hoping Rick makes this right but right now I’m not feeling very confident.
-Josh

The original poster hasn't been on this site in over 3 years.

The original poster passed away last year.

I am sorry to hear that. Moderator may remove my post.

Did you tell Sabettas what they did ? Might possibly be a employee swapped the seats.

Can a moderator please remove my post. After a couple days and no response, the Seller has reached out to me and will be fixing the problem.

That's good to know. I bought a '67 GTO from Rick, the owner of Sabetta's Classic Cars, Oh. a few years ago. This was a very expensive frame-off restoration with full photographic documentation of the resto. I live in NC and the State police inspect all out of state classic car purchases prior to issuing a new title. They have a special unit that handles this. Upon their inspection it was bought to my attention that the rosette rivets which hold the vin tag to the driver's side post did not conform. When I looked at them when buying the car the rivets looked fine however the State trooper used a magnified camera image that showed the rivets had been messed with. In his opinion this indicated a 'chain of possession' violation. He said that they may be the originals, removed and reapplied when the car was restored. However, it was still a 'chain of possession' violation. So, that set in motion a new level of inspection. The trooper then used a magnifying extendable mirror to look up on the top of the driver's side rear frame section for the hidden vin. Fortunately for me the hidden vin matched the vin plate on the door post. If they had not, I would have needed to get a bonded title for the car. Meaning the car was mine unless someone came forward claiming the car was stolen or somehow misappropriated. In any event, I still had to have a state issued vin tag applied to my car because of the non-conforming rivets. The state issued tag was produced on the spot by the trooper and was attached next to the original vin plate on the door jamb (which thankfully I did not have to remove). It is also now has a state issued vin on the title. So there it is, buyer beware. I now have a car with a 'story to tell' if and when I sell it. NC is one of only a few states with this level of concern about classic cars but they take it very seriously.

The dealer has reached out to claim that he is going to make it right. I he did admit that he changed out the seats but claims it was prior to me viewing the car on Saturday 05Apr25. He was in and out of angry in our conversation. He claimed they are his cars and he can do whatever he wants with them. I know the seats were mint and matched when I viewed the car on 05Apr25. Their YouTube video of the car was posted on 04Apr25. I would have never agreed to purchase the car with 2 holes in the seats.
He claims the seats were removed because they were damaged and that they are currently being refinished. Again I know this to be BS because he purchased the car from a Hagerty place auction and I have the auction saved and the seats were mint and matched front to back(all black with no metal emblems)
We are supposed to meet halfway in Ft Wayne IN when they are finished. I still think it’s not going to be a positive experience. They better be mint seats. Luckily I know what mint seats look like because I have the hagerty photos and my co-worker just had his seats refurbished in his 71 chevelle ss(I know different seat style, but I know what a quality seat refurbish looks like in person as I store it for him).

Sorry you've got to go through this. I dislike the bait-n-switch. Keep us posted.

Thanks, it’s been a ruff week. They claim they are going to “make it right”

We will see, I’m not getting my hopes up and prepared to have to fund getting seats refurbished out of pocket.

Now I just need to study chevelle seats while they say “they are getting repaired”. I’m pretty sure New for the 67 was the side release button that allowed you to fold the seat forward.

Yes, I just looked at a 67 Chevelle sales brochure that I have, and it shows the side mounted seatback release button.

For your reference, here is a '67 Chevelle bucket seat with OEM (not repro) covers.

Good luck!!

Thanks!

Thanks!

Get the pictures you have saved of the seats when he bought it thru Haggerty printed in full color to take with you when you meet. It will be more difficult for him to argue with pictures, rather than just a verbal description.