Daytona Yellow 69 Camaro
 

Hello sYc, I wanted to share some info and pics of a 1969 Camaro a friend of mine picked up. We got the car and being a numbers guy I began checking it out. The engine and trans are missing and it is quite obvious the Camaro had see some race days- wheel wells opened up for large tires, tow tabs, and a sun tach box on the drivers inner fender. Now keep in mind i am Chevelle guy and still learning Camaros, so the CRG pages are worn out from my search for info. the body tag shows X11, the bulkhead has X1 written on it as well. it has black deluxe interior (712). Where it begins to get interesting to me is it has a big block heater cover, the cowl hood harness and throttle arm. there is a 12 bolt in the car but we have determined it is not the original unit, the Camaro is a 03D build and the current rear end is BU1112G1with the E below it. it has traction bars but i am not sure of the manufacturer, they are angled on both ends and use the J bolts. The body is Daytona Yellow (76-76) and there appears to be a single black stripe on what remains of the original yellow paint. The core support appears to be the original and still has the tuning decal on it even though it had been painted over at some point,I carefully removed the paint and it appears it was a CH or 375hp tuning decal-the image shows the original one on top and an example of the CH decal below. We received the NCRS document and it identified Baldwin Motor Co as the dealer and Mar 26 1969 as the production date. Well just wanted to see if anyone might know of some good sources for tracing info related to Baldwin and anything else we might be able to check to identify more info about this interesting Camaro. Thanks Andy

Looks like your friend made a nice score if the body is salvageable. I believe that Joel Rosen May authenticate a legitimate Baldwin Motion modified car, but I don’t know the best way to reach him. I believe he’s affiliated with this site... someone correct me if not.

http://www.officialbaldwinmotion.com/

Best of luck!

The traction bars dont look like Motion Super Bite traction bars... they look like the 71ish Lakewood Grumpy redesigns with rear clamping for deceleration stability... however... as most know.. Joel and the boys would put whatever you wanted on the car at your request. Being sold at Baldwin its probable that the owner did what most did.. went to the shop and bought individual Motion parts to get close to a Motion car spec.

Joel will definately authenticate a Motion car for a fee... best to do a lot more leg work before contacting him directly. looking forward to seeing what other secrets this old girl is going to give up..

X11 = non-SS396, non-Z28, with style trim
X11 was the "catch all" code because so many models had the same body trim.
So X11 could be:
1. Plain Jane with style trim (any motor except, 302, 350/300 and all 396's)
2. SS350
3. RS/SS350
4. RS

"" Note that some COPO 427's were X11.!!!!"

Best wishes

Are there any known COPOs out of Baldwin Chevrolet?

none that ive ever heard of..

Wow, that one is certainly a bit crusty. It does have a lot of signs of being a COPO with the BB heater core and single 3/8" fuel line. I would suggest pulling the heater core and checking the date code to help determine if it is original to the car. As mentioned the rectangular traction bars are '71 or later.

No documented COPOs that I am aware of from Baldwin and as I recall at one of the SCR's that Marty Schorr, and Joel Rosen attended many years ago they mentioned the 427 COPO program wasn't known to Baldwin Chev.

Certainly an interesting find.

appreciate the input. definitely an interesting camaro. i did notice one baldwin listing in the registry and it is in the same vin range but later. i will try to verify the date on the fan motor and provide an update. thanks again

I remembers this also
Joel said they did not buy COPO 427 Camaro and Chevelles
they did their own conversions

other things to look for are extra holes for emblems like the SS 427 emblems
or holes for side pipes, fuel pumps, etc

do you have a picture of the complete car?

It also has the bow tie badging as well as the cowl induction harness. It definitely has the appearance of a COPO.

I have only seen one pic of a Motion car that appeared to be a COPO but it wasn’t yellow and was without style trim.

The pics are from an article in Hi Performance CARS (November 1969) featuring the installation of the Hone OD. It was a 427, auto on the column, 4:56 rear. The article says owner Marc Cohen drove it back to his home in Ohio from New York, and referred to it as a Phase III car. It doesn't really say if it was a Baldwin purchased car or if he brought it in to be Phase III tuned.

'


Super C:eek2::eek2:L...check the inner fender extensions for 427 markings!
Not Baldwin but Brent's DynaMotion car is the closest Motion/9561 combination I can think of?:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete


.

that dark colored MP car that looks like a COPO 427 Camaro was discussed a few times over the years, it is believed to be a MP customer car.

here is a post from Marty back when he was doing the Motion book


"In 1970 I photographed a plain

jane (it may have been dark blue or green, no stripes) 1969 427 Camaro (not SS

or RS) with a bench seat, column shift auto trans being transformed into a

Phase III Camaro at Motion. It was a customer-owned car and the owner was Marc

Cohen. Car had 1970 Missouri license plates. It has small Phase III stickers on

it. Rear gearing was 4.56 and Joel also installed a Hone OD. It may have even

been a COPO car that was being upgraded. Joel never did any COPO cars, but this

was a car the owner brought it. I used it to illustrate a Hone installation

in CARS magazine.

Any info about the car, Marc Cohen, etc., would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Marty "

There is one in the Supercar registry, Baldwin Chev 9561 124379N620192.
69-69 VE3

Yep..

Without me saying this is one,correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only BB X-11 Camaro's COPO's?

'

Registry Note - Above Page/Column 3 of 9N619942 is mistakenly noted 9560 not 9561.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

I remember a Black Copo 9561 from Baldwin Chevrolet, (Team Camaro, I think it was) and there was a Silver 9561 (no Endura bumper) here on Yenko.net 5 years ago.
Was this early in the COPO ordering so Baldwin Chevrolet have to Order 10 of them?

https://www.camaros.net/forums/29-fo...tion-sale.html

It wasint Black. 69-69 and its the 124379N620192

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthre...t=ncrs+baldwin

124379N619942

Urban legend at this time. No proof there was a minimum order requirement for any dealer other than Gibb/Yenko.

good work Carleen

so it looks like we have 4 different possible COPO 427 Camaros in this thread


Daytona yellow car first posted

Cars Magazine car owner Marc Cohen with BM mods

124379N620192 on team Camaro in 2009 as a black car original silver 4sp


124379N619942 silver TH400 restored car posted on here in 2015

I remember that car being for sale. No docs unfortunately, but a solid story. As far as Baldwin being unaware of the COPO program, I always call BS on that. More likely they kept it super quiet at Rosen's request - why would a guy who puts 427s in customer cars for a living want anybody to know about a factory-installed 427 program? He wouldn't.

Tiny dealerships in Canada were getting COPOS and a connected east coast (NEW YORK!) dealer doesn't know about it?? Hahahaha! C'mon.

I hope this yellow car turns out to be something special, sure seems like it might be - best of luck!

I don’t see a lot of BS here
it was more difficult to get a COPO 427 then a SS396

Motion and Nickey both advertised their 1967 to 1969 Camaro conversions as
“SS 427 Camaros” and didn’t use the COPO 427s.
They seemed to have used the same plan from 1967 to 1969

Scuncio Chev sold COPO 427s and did 427 conversions

In the Fred Gibb interview 1991, he was asked about the COPO L72 Camaros and he said
“ We sold a few, but we did one or two change overs a week on our own. “

Dick Harrell had COPO 427 cars but also did 427 conversions

Nickey did 2 1969 Z/28 to 427 conversions according to the info on this L88 Z/28
http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/...yZ28/index.htm

When I see a Chevrolet Central Office document with that proviso I will be convinced.

I'd like to add that Mel Perry at Norwood Motors in Rhode Island also had COPO 427 cars and did 427 and L88 conversions.

That adds up to about 110 dealers known to have sold [non-Yenko] COPO 9561 Camaros. I'm sure there are others.

Subtract Yenko and his 198 cars; 799/110 = 7.26 avg cars per dealer. Some dealers, Berger in particular, are known to have had 30-40 COPOs further lowering the average.

Might be there was an initial 10 car requirement but the numbers don't support it.

All dwarfed by Motion's book of business. Nope, not buying the "we never knew about it" line.

It seems like Kurt Sonen knows about more Baldwin COPOs

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1044089

In the 1991 interview with Dale Berger jr he said they ordered 50 COPO L72 Camaros and 10 L72 Chevelles and thinks they sold 40 to 50 Camaros L72.

Yenko had about 198 L72 Camaros and 99 L72 Chevelles.

The next highest number I recall is 20 Camaro L72 sold.

Many say they just remember “a few” sold.



I used to buy parts from Jerry Roberts, the parts manager from Byrne Brothers Chevy in NY.
They sold Yenkos, COPO L72 Camaros and Chevelles. He did not remember how many they sold but said they had at least a few of each. He remembered lots of 1969 Z/28 ‘s as he bought a new one and said they had truck loads of them and at one time they averaged one a day sold.

Is it known how many Camaro COPO L72 went to Canada ?

I thought GM of Canada Historical had the number from their records but I don't recall it.

80 1969 COPO 9561 L72 Camaro's were exported into Canada,according to VVS.

Thanks , where did you find the VVS info?
I was also looking for number of COPO 427 Chevelles to Canada
and number of COPO 9737 for Camaro and Chevelle to Canada

as I was searching , I found this post on here


"Belmont sold 10 copo Camaros and 5 copo Chevelle.
Lance Hill from Belmont ordered all of them. "

more were ordered later

" Belmont was the highest volume new car dealer of any brand in Canada and delivered more COPOs than any other dealership. I know as I ordered and signed off on every one, along with Dave Mackay, confirmed by GM Canada. My daily driver for 3 months or so was Hugger Orange 638805, now in good hands in Southern Cal, with the odd side trip to Greece (really). Similar to almost all dealers, Belmont's sales files went into a landfill after a few years. I have Belmont butt end stickers for any current owner who need one.

Lance Hill "

A friend received a VVS report on his US to Canada shipped COPO,from George Z.
It stated that # quote on the cover page.

That would be new. That was not included before. Seems like it could be low - I know of 50 cars out of the 80?

Baldwin ordered several COPO's early in the year. In fact, they were one of the first non-Yenko dealers to order them. But I've never seen a later car. Baffling cause they were cheaper than an L78.

Hate to say, but I don't put a lot of stock into statements that some of the dealers make in later years. They were in the business of selling cars and had lots of other models and trucks and their statements have proven not to be very accurate. Not surprising - we are interested in a 6-8 month window on a specific model in (often) 30+ years of business.

The ones weve seen here is made at the end of February and March.
Is there earlier Baldwin COPOs?

It would be interesting to know the numbers of COPO 9561, 9562, and 9737 exported to Canada.

VVS had the records on microfilm and microfiche which can be hard to data search.
I don't know if they ever had it converted to a modern data base that can be easily searched


Looking over some old notes on the COPO 9562 Chevelle L72

VVS records show

9612 Malibu sport coupes were sold in Canada
10828 were exported to U.S
201 imported to Canada

Some have said about 30 of the 201 were COPO 9562 Chevelle L72 but I don't think that has been confirmed by VVS.

I sent VVS an email on this

Get the page and scan it and post it. Then we will have something weird. Cuz NO COPO doc I have ever seen out of GM of Canada has ever had a COPO total number, only the model number for V8 Camaro or Malibu Hardtop. In fact the Chevelle docs usually say "NO RECORD OF COPO TOTAL SALES" (as below).

George says he has been driven batty by people asking this question this week (probably due to this site) and his answer is the same he has always given me - "WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO THROUGH 6,067 V8 CAMAROS AND 201 CHEVELLES TO FIND 427 CARS"

He DOES NOT KNOW where the 80 and 30 numbers are from but he says THEY ARE NOT CONFIRMED BY VVS. The numbers remain an unconfirmed guess.

here is his reply to me

" unfortunately we do not have option breakdowns on cars imported to Canada before 1972 so cannot assist with this request"


George Zapora

Vintage Vehicle Services

1189 Colonel Sam Drive

Oshawa, ON

Canada L1H 8W8

That’s weird. I’ve had 3 Canadian built 70 Chevelles and all of my VVS docs had an exact number of how many had ZL2, L34, LS5, etc.

CANADIAN "BUILT" so NOT imported-OSHAWA. That's a waaay different kettle of fish with much better record-keeping in Oshawa.
Oshawa-built GTO Judges actually have WT1 (Judge) and M20 or M21 stamped on the trim tag. Seen L34 on some Oshawa Chevelle trim tags too.

And the reason he mentions 1972 specifically is that it wasn't until '72 that you got a VIN letter on GM cars to designate the engine option.