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Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Fellas -
Have been doing some bench racing with a buddy of mine with the possibility that I'll end up building something if it's feasible. Here's the premise -- build the fastest "Day 2" Musclecar, with common bolt on and period correct modifications. Why? I think we have a pretty good idea from old magazine articles (the ones that were legit) and the cars that are racing Pure Stock Drags what the quickest musclecars were off the showroom floor. Yes, Pure Stock Drags cars are allowed some minor modifications, but nothing outrageous and they have to run on original size and style tires. Anyway, I love the Pure Stock Drags, but is it really representative of what you would be lining up against in a street race in any given town from 1964-1971? At the very least, you'd see more rubber (and slapper bars) on the back end, maybe some 4.56's, a shift kit in the auto trannies, and upgraded clutches and shifters in the 3 pedal cars. The engine might have a cam, headers, and a better intake, carb, and better ignition. So, what would the top Day 2 cars be for each given manufacturer? Car would need to come off a production line; nothing built by specialty shops. No machine work done to the engine; just bolt ons (cam/lifter/springs, headers, carb, intake, distributor), shift kit ok for auto trans, better gears are fine, more tire on the back, etc. Parts have to be period correct, including cam grinds. Would have to be a "musclecar" so no 2 seaters (sorry Corvette folks - I love 'em too). My $.02. Sorry if I hurt any feelings; this is just my SWAG (Stupid Wild-Assed Guess). Buick - 70 GS Stage 1. Not a real player. Olds - I'm not an Olds guy, but would have to be the 66-67 W30 according to my buddy. Followed by 70 W31, I think. Also not super competitive. Pontiac - 68 RA I or RA II Bird. Competitive. Headers should wake it up some, and perhaps a Holley DP, better intake, and more cam to take advantage of it all? It wouldn't be terribly expensive or difficult to replicate one of these if you could find the heads. Chevy - ZL-1 has to be top dog, right? But I REALLY like the idea of a 66 Deuce sedan with more cam, headers, larger Holley, and better intake. Ford - I think this is where you would see some real progress. Shock tower cars have been hampered by lousy exhaust manifolds, so the headers should really wake 'em up. I'm thinking either a 66 Fairlane sedan with a 427 MR (can you fit 1 3/4 headers without hacking the shock towers?) or a 68 Mustang coupe with a 428 CJ. Aluminum intakes takes a LOT of weight off the front end of an FE car, too. Mopar - 67 RO/WO hemi car. Maybe an A12 car as a backup? AMC - I'm thinking 70 AMX with a 390. Thoughts? If I were to build one, I think you could piece together a 68 Mustang CJ clone for cheap. 428 stuff isn't crazy expensive, and you can still find unmolested CJ heads and 428 blocks. And Ford made millions of Mustang coupes, too. Either that or the 68 RAII 'Bird. If you were to line up the top cars from each manufacturer (only one Mopar, only one Ford/Mercury) and race, I'm thinking the ZL1 would come out on top. Followed by the RO/WO hemi. Then the RAI/II Bird. With the Ford next, but I'm not sure if it would be the Fairlane or the Rust...errr....Mustang. Your thoughts? Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.
If they were the cars that were listed on the "Top Fifty" fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the "Top Ten".....would not be players? Dan |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
You have really peaked my interest:-)
The Pure Stock and FAST classes don't have a spot for the "DAY-2" cars. Would that ever be a fun addition:-) Even the original Stock or Super Stock would be cool. Those of us that missed the drag race days could get a turn. Ryan |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?
My Dad's 67 Nova was a "Day 2 car from Day 1". It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor. Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference). An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's. To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day. I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it. Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2. http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ns/67Deuce.jpg |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:
68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor. There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor. wilma |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Lots of people underestimated Stage 1 Buicks back then..................... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img]
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
I guess Day 2 really is just grudge racing with a technology cut off- I guess 1971 or 2 would be cool for most of us.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Interesting discussion. Frankly, it opens up a whole new subject to the FAST and Pure Stock racing. Im going to sit back and read.
I know of a 68 Camaro that fits this [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?
From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index.... I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] BIG |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index.... BIG </div></div> Instantly thought of the movie Two Lane Blacktop. Did the 55 have an advantage over the GTO- maybe all it had going for it were aftermarket rims. So the 55 wasn't a pure Day 2 car. Maybe I'm less of a Day 2 fan and more of a fan of the aftermarket products from the 1960's! Also a grudge race/ street race / sleeper / underdog fan. Kinda like how the SCR has encouraged even non-super car rides to participate in the drags. Hard to bottle it all up, but if you could create a compitition similar to what was happening in an unclassified way on the streets of the USA during the Muscle Car era- that would be magical. Fastest Street Car Shoot-Out circa 1969! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Good comparison on the TLBT cars. One far removed, but period and the other in a very early Day 2 transformation. Perfect counterpoint to my comment but validates the build phase when not taken into consideration. Day 2 stops after some point...Era correct takes over when the build fits a time period.
Great topic! BTW, love that Chevy II.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] BIG |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?
From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index.... I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] BIG </div></div> A friend has a 68 Chevelle SS396. It was bought new as an L78/M21 car and was immediately put into street racer service. This is an unrestored car that has never been abandoned to the back of the shed or the south 40 and has never been "just" a driver. It's evolved through the years from it's modded L78 origins and now sports an 18* small block on two guns with a Liberty 5-speed and ladder bars and is <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> street raced regularly. So what's Day 2? Day 3? Year 2? Cars evolve and it's tough to nail down a hard cut-off for what is or is not Day 2. As you say, a slippery slope. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
2 cents worth. Being from the 60s/70's the biggest issues for winning street races was getting traction, and breathing. A L78 Nova with factory E70 tires from the factory would be dead meat running a stock 340 duster/cuda with L60's and a good gear. Cam changes, and motor internals usually happened after you got your ass handed to you by some dick wad mouth runner. It was a natural progression like Big said. Day 2 started with the big three. Headers, Big meats and wheels, and slapper bars. The rest depended on your testosterone level, money, and traffic arrest record.
I do miss those days. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Shouldn't we look at cars that were built by the factory to be Day 2 cars?
Not everything in the showroom ran well stock. Boss 429 comes to mind. What else? - 1968-69 W30 - 1970 W30 4-speed - 1968-70 W31????? Do you agree with the above? What else would you add? |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postsedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.
If they were the cars that were listed on the "Top Fifty" fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the "Top Ten".....would not be players? Dan </div></div> Dan - I'm a big fan of GS Buicks. Have come close to buying a few, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. "Not a player" is probably the wrong phase. I just wouldn't expect one to be in the top three. Having said that, I'm happy to be wrong on this. Thanks, Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?
My Dad's 67 Nova was a "Day 2 car from Day 1". It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor. Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference). An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's. To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day. I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it. Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2. </div></div> Love the Nova! Cool story, too. As for Day 2, I realize all of these mods (engine swaps, etc) were happening as soon as Day 2, but the conversation I'm interested in is what were the quickest street cars on Day 2, given some reasonable (and common) modifications and a realistic budget. If you could keep it simple and relatively inexpensive, I think it would be a great racing class to complement Pure Stock Drags and FAST. Thanks for the input. Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:
68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor. There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor. wilma </div></div> That's one of my favorite cars from "back in the day." Love a car that's optioned with one thing in mind, too -- going fast in a straight line. Thanks for the input. Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...p/100_2781.jpg |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess Day 2 really is just grudge racing with a technology cut off- I guess 1971 or 2 would be cool for most of us.
</div></div> Bingo. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: napa68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. Frankly, it opens up a whole new subject to the FAST and Pure Stock racing. Im going to sit back and read.
I know of a 68 Camaro that fits this [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] </div></div> FAST is a bit of a stretch, if you ask me. It's interesting, but not really representative of what you would have seen on the streets. I think it's also quite expensive, if you want to be competitive. Pure Stock Drags, in my opinion, are quite relevant in the "what was the fastest showroom stock musclecar" discussion; Day 2 would just be an evolutionary step. Would be neat to have Pure Stock Drags on a Saturday and then race the same cars in Day 2 trim on a Sunday. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?
From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index.... I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] BIG </div></div> Excellent comments. I think Day 2 is limited to basic bolt-on mods. Probably better if you have a cutoff for all mods at 1971 or so, as mentioned earlier. That way, the 65 Chevelle Z16 can race the 69 Chevelle L78 and have more of an apples to apples comparison. I think this has merit as an actual racing class, but for that to be feasible, you need to keep the rules simple, reasonable, fair, and somewhat easy to enforce. Hence the limit on the more in-depth modifications. Thanks Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index.... BIG </div></div> Hard to bottle it all up, but if you could create a compitition similar to what was happening in an unclassified way on the streets of the USA during the Muscle Car era- that would be magical. Fastest Street Car Shoot-Out circa 1969! </div></div> You nailed it. That's the basic premise. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shouldn't we look at cars that were built by the factory to be Day 2 cars?
Not everything in the showroom ran well stock. Boss 429 comes to mind. What else? - 1968-69 W30 - 1970 W30 4-speed - 1968-70 W31????? Do you agree with the above? What else would you add? </div></div> Boss '9 cars are interesting, aren't they? I don't think they would be super competitive in this format. Cam and exhaust would help, but I don't know if they have enough hp to overcome all the weight on the front end. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 cents worth. Being from the 60s/70's the biggest issues for winning street races was getting traction, and breathing. A L78 Nova with factory E70 tires from the factory would be dead meat running a stock 340 duster/cuda with L60's and a good gear. Cam changes, and motor internals usually happened after you got your ass handed to you by some dick wad mouth runner. It was a natural progression like Big said. Day 2 started with the big three. Headers, Big meats and wheels, and slapper bars. The rest depended on your testosterone level, money, and traffic arrest record.
I do miss those days. </div></div> Excellent comments. That would be real easy if you wanted something that really complements the PS cars and allows owners to change to Day 2 format in an hour or two. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...p/100_2781.jpg</div></div> Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...p/100_2781.jpg </div></div> Love that Fairlane. I had a Lime Gold 67 500XL with a Cleveland/Toploader setup for power. Miss it every day. On the Mustang, yeah, the 71 gives up some weight to the 68. But them heads though. Im picturing a 71 coupe with Edelbrock intake, three barrel Holley, 2 inch primary headers, and a massive GK solid roller. I'm a die hard Windsor guy, but there's no arguing with the canted-valve stuff when it's breathing right. Using modern speed parts the inline valve wedge stuff can compete. Using only old school stuff? I dunno. Boss 429? Ive ridden in true Day 2 Boss '9 and its a face-melter. They'll run if done right. Problem with the Ford Hemi stuff is paying the tab. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] </div></div> Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit... Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit... http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psvsptfuof.jpg |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. Love that Fairlane. I had a Lime Gold 67 500XL with a Cleveland/Toploader setup for power. Miss it every day. On the Mustang, yeah, the 71 gives up some weight to the 68. But them heads though. Im picturing a 71 coupe with Edelbrock intake, three barrel Holley, 2 inch primary headers, and a massive GK solid roller. I'm a die hard Windsor guy, but there's no arguing with the canted-valve stuff when it's breathing right. Using modern speed parts the inline valve wedge stuff can compete. Using only old school stuff? I dunno. Boss 429? Ive ridden in true Day 2 Boss '9 and its a face-melter. They'll run if done right. Problem with the Ford Hemi stuff is paying the tab. </div></div> '67 sounds like it was a sweet ride. Boss 9 or 71 CJ 429 work best in FAST cars. With a relatively inexpensive stroker kit and a good OEM block, you can get close to 600 cubes. You're constrained by factory intake (ported of course), carb (massaged extensively), and exhaust manifolds (extrude honed), but you can still make some serious power and torque. A few years ago someone with a 429 CJ Mustang was the first person in the 9's in a F.A.S.T. car. 71 Sportsroof weights are around 3,650 for a 429 car; not great, but not as bad as you would think. Had 375 hp and 450 ft/lbs to move it around. Looks like around 3,300 lbs for a 68 CJ Mustang, with the 428 rated at 335 hp/440 ft lbs. I'm still going with the 68 as the better car, but I think it's close. Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] </div></div> Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit... Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit... http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psvsptfuof.jpg</div></div> Now you guys are really dragging out the classics ... COOL!!! TAZ |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...mg_3783_xl.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...mg_3771_xl.jpg The Pontiac I just purchased from Tony (Scuncio)is a great day two car. Badged as the original 6 cyl it has all the goodies. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
I was cruisin' the streets of Omaha in my Biscayne in 71-72 and there were some pretty fast cars. Several that I remember were a 69 (might have been a 68) Mustang 428 CobraJet, headers, deep gears, traction bars and pretty fat tires. Another was a 70 Z-28, 4 speed, headers, Lakewood bars, 5.13-1 gears and Drag 500 cheater slicks. He used to stalk big block cars. There was a 69 Chevelle, that looking back now I realize might have been a COPO car because it was definitely an L72. He also had headers and good tires for the day. There was also an L78 4 speed Nova real deep gear car that was jacked way up in the back for big tires, but he still had traction problems. There were some faster cars that were past Day 2, but these were the ones I remember the young workin' guys had.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
396/427 Vega!
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Who says what's "DAY 2"? That will be the issue! Once a heads up class comes around, $$$$ fly out the window faster then smoke in a Cheek and Chong movie.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] </div></div>
One of my most memorable street races was against a 351 Maverick, Boss stripes and all.....He opened his header dumps at a light and it was go time. Side by side up to 110-120 thru town at about midnight on a Fri or Sat night. This was on a four lane section of US 42 in a retail area. Young and dumb, but man was that fun! BIG |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Jimmy Addison's Silver Bullet would be a cool discussion.
Day 2,3,4.......... http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...pshw5jsszj.jpg |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>
Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy. Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars. Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] </div></div> Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit... Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit... </div></div> Now you guys are really dragging out the classics ... COOL!!! TAZ </div></div> Thanks, Taz. It's been sitting in storage, 90% done, for 3 years. Uncle Sam sent me to Korea for a 2 year tour followed by a 3 year tour in Italy. I'll finish it when I return from Italy. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat_Dilling</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was cruisin' the streets of Omaha in my Biscayne in 71-72 and there were some pretty fast cars. Several that I remember were a 69 (might have been a 68) Mustang 428 CobraJet, headers, deep gears, traction bars and pretty fat tires. Another was a 70 Z-28, 4 speed, headers, Lakewood bars, 5.13-1 gears and Drag 500 cheater slicks. He used to stalk big block cars. There was a 69 Chevelle, that looking back now I realize might have been a COPO car because it was definitely an L72. He also had headers and good tires for the day. There was also an L78 4 speed Nova real deep gear car that was jacked way up in the back for big tires, but he still had traction problems. There were some faster cars that were past Day 2, but these were the ones I remember the young workin' guys had. </div></div>
I was born in '68, so I'm a bit too young to have seen street races between true Day 2 cars. Having said that, sounds like a fun scene in Omaha, albeit with a few too many Chevy's [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] Thanks for the input. Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanCOPO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Pontiac I just purchased from Tony (Scuncio)is a great day two car. Badged as the original 6 cyl it has all the goodies. </div></div> I think I would consider that to be more of a modern-ish sleeper, given eddy heads and wheels... Somewhat similar to my 68 GTO convt -- just looks like a nice cruiser, but the 400 is actually a built 462, ported iron heads, Cliff Ruggles tweaked Q-Jet, Performer RPM intake, headers, Continental converter, 3.90 gear, etc. Should dip into the 11's with traction. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psqn9q5ds8.jpg http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...pslufnxevv.jpg Needs a bit of detailing and cleaning under the hood, and a stock appearing air cleaner. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psl8pnkxig.jpg |
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