Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #000099">Anybody on here own this one...or know about it? Cool car.</span> </span>

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-nostripez.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...nostripez3.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...nostripez2.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...nostripez4.jpg

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img]

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

No rear bumper guards and what looks like a incorrect black grill. I would love to see more pics and hear more. Sometimes that stuff got changed out just for the look.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

----Wish I knew where that car was located back in the day as I saw a car very, very close to this in the service department prior to delivery. It was a Chevy dealer in Newton Mass that I used to poke around at every now and then. I knew nothing about JL8 brakes in 69, so never looked for that. Other than the brakes a dead ringer right down to the houndstooth gut and stripe delete. Always thought it was very classy.......Bill S

Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

S[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] C[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img][img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img]L!!!
Hope all's true, love to see/hear more.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete


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https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...ripedelete.jpg
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Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

S[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] C[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img][img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img]L!!!
Hope all's true, love to see/hear more.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete


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https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...ripedelete.jpg
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</div></div>

Looks like the hood was added no 302 emblems, grill, no roof rail trim Lots of changes based on the exterior pics.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

----Does that plate look like a NJ plate?......Bill S

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Doe it have a small rear spoiler?

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Does that plate look like a NJ plate?......Bill S </div></div>

Yes, that's a NJ vanity plate with the old &quot;KK&quot; collector classification on the left side margin.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Anyone know where in Jersey this car was or is?

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

I am the current owner of this car. I was the 3 owner and sold it about 1977 with 14,000 miles on it, located and purchased it 6 years ago, long story. &quot;Original&quot; Bumper Guards are back on the car. This car 'did' come with a black grill contrary to what is published in Jerry McNeish's book. Originally had an Endura Bumper, I removed it and put a chrome bumper on it back them (silly me). It is an X33 and yes the drip roof mouldings are not on the car. Original hood was stolen back then, and was replaced with a GM Hood, thats when you could buy them for about $ 100 from the dealer. This is a real deal factory JL8 car, I have the P.O.P. Currently has 24,000 miles on it, still all original paint (except for the hood) and interior.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Welcome Tom. Way cool ride. Howz bout some current shots of yr car? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

would be great to see some pictures Tom.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Welcome to the site Tom.....Can I have it ?

Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

'

Sounds very cool, looking forward to pictures too!
Welcome aboard!!!
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL8Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This car 'did' come with a black grill contrary to what is published in Jerry McNeish's book. </div></div>

That would be Jerry McNeish, The Camaro Research Group and everyone else in the hobby that knows '69s at all. Standard grille on a non-RS Z/28 was molded in an off-white plastic, the entire front painted argent [silver]. In production the outer circumference was painted body color. Plenty of survivor Z/28s around with silver grilles.

Have the car judged and the grille will be deemed incorrect.

http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#BlackoutPaint

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

SWEET!!! So glad this thread found you JL8TOM, quite a car you have there. Welcome - I hoped it would make its way to you so we could find out more about such a rare Z. Any more pics you can post?

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Hi William,
I have to disagree with you. This car was delivered with a black molded grill with outer circumference painted to match body color. Please note this is a &quot; -- &quot; paint code stripe delete car and has headlight washers, could one or both of those been a factor in the black grill. I have been in touch with the original owner and will reach out to him to see if he has any recollection regarding the black grill. I can with all certainty say, this car was delivered with a black grill. Jerry's book is a great resource, but it's the one bit of information that is not 100% correct, I have proof positive parked in my garage.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Oh-oh.... Another potential &quot;evening orchid&quot; thread. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img]

Enjoy what you have and/or restore it as you find/research &quot;your&quot; car to be. PLEASE don't do it just to conform to a standard. Cars have a history &amp; history is not always set in stone...Remember when they never made a 427 Camaro/Chevelle...? The learning and research should never end.


BIG

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

I have been in the hobby 41 years, virtually all of it centered on the ’69 Camaro. The “black Z/28 grille” yarn has been out there since the cars were new. If you flip through late ‘70s car mags it won’t take long to find a non-RS ’69 Z/28 pictured with a black grille. At the time many believed they were built that way. Many people also believed you could order one with headers and a cross-ram. It took years to dispel these myths; in many ways Jerry’s book was the catalyst. His books remain the best source of Camaro info available and have stood the test of time.

When the CRG was formed 18 years ago we had to deal with anomalies in production. Thus the phrase “normative practice” was developed.

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#Normative

I suggest you carefully read the last paragraph. Just because the car has a black grille does not mean it was built with it. Talking to previous owners is a good place to start but oral history really isn’t proof. The car could have been damaged in transit or shortly thereafter and repaired with a black grille. 47 years is a long time to remember an insignificant detail and it is entirely possible even the original owner was not aware of it. It’s also possible he painted it.

If it was in fact built that way it was an error. Standard practice was a silver grille; about 16,000 non-RS Z/28s were built with one.

Good luck in your research.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img]

Enjoy what you have and/or restore it as you find/research &quot;your&quot; car to be. PLEASE don't do it just to conform to a standard. Cars have a history &amp; history is not always set in stone...Remember when they never made a 427 Camaro/Chevelle...? The learning and research should never end.


BIG </div></div>



x1000

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been in the hobby 41 years, virtually all of it centered on the ’69 Camaro. The “black Z/28 grille” yarn has been out there since the cars were new. If you flip through late ‘70s car mags it won’t take long to find a non-RS ’69 Z/28 pictured with a black grille. At the time many believed they were built that way. Many people also believed you could order one with headers and a cross-ram. It took years to dispel these myths; in many ways Jerry’s book was the catalyst. His books remain the best source of Camaro info available and have stood the test of time.

When the CRG was formed 18 years ago we had to deal with anomalies in production. Thus the phrase “normative practice” was developed.

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#Normative

I suggest you carefully read the last paragraph. Just because the car has a black grille does not mean it was built with it. Talking to previous owners is a good place to start but oral history really isn’t proof. The car could have been damaged in transit or shortly thereafter and repaired with a black grille. 47 years is a long time to remember an insignificant detail and it is entirely possible even the original owner was not aware of it. It’s also possible he painted it.

If it was in fact built that way it was an error. Standard practice was a silver grille; about 16,000 non-RS Z/28s were built with one.

Good luck in your research.


</div></div>

Hopefully we can give William the last word on this as he pretty much covered it. I would hate to see our thread here on such a significant Z devolve into an insignificant elongated grille discussion. More pics and memories, Tom, please. Thank you....

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Not '69 Camaro specific but a similar anecdote. I recently looked at an original owner '70 Challenger RT/SE 440 car, still in the hands of the original owners. It doesn't have any 440 emblems on the hood, and they've never painted it. Aha! a factory mistake!? Well, as we looked closer, you could see evidence that the hood had been resprayed. Upon asking the owners about what they knew, it turns out it was a late 1970 dealer swap car (they wanted a '70 but too late to order) and it apparently suffered hood damage in transit or while at the first dealer (or maybe stolen? that definitely happened back in the day) and the body shop apparently was apparently too lazy to drill holes and transfer the emblems over. Just an example of something happening between the factory and the original owner.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

And a factory mistake is just that,a mistake from what the majority of those cars received.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hopefully we can give William the last word on this as he pretty much covered it. I would hate to see our thread here on such a significant Z devolve into an insignificant elongated grille discussion. More pics and memories, Tom, please. Thank you.... </div></div>

IMO there are way too many nitpic threads out there, lets see more of the car and enjoy them! I do because of all the options- so few were identicle

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

It could have happened with the black grill? Maybe the factory made the mistake.

Reminds me when a old friend, Don Henderson Sr, RIP, showed up at a Shelby show geez have to be back in the 80's or early 90's now, with what he was KNOWN as an original, I (&quot;think&quot; the year was) 1965 Shelby GT 350 R COUPE! Everyone at the show was telling him they NEVER made one, didn't come that way, it's a clone etc. Told him to get it off the grounds. That is the Mr Carroll Shelby himself arrived on scene. I guess word travels fast about this car and Carroll had to see it for himself.

Well low and behold, CONTRARY to the current knowledge of the PRO's and restorers at the time, Carroll walk up and looks the car over VERY CLOSELY from what Don told me. Then Carroll looked at Don and said, &quot;I haven't seen or even HEARD of one of these in YEARS&quot;! Seems there was a limited run of 5/6 cars that Carroll did just to see how the coupe would run against the fastbacks. It took Carroll's own words for the car to be accepted at the REAL DEAL even though EVERYONE said they never made one. Carroll obviously knew otherwise.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Hey I'm behaving myself. You want your eyebrows singed go on any Corvette forum and claim you have a '67 Corvette 327 that you're <span style="font-style: italic">certain</span> was built with a 427 hood. Another urban legend. Tough crowd over there.

Had the owner simply stated the car had a black grille and asked for opinions, my response would have been different. The brash statement that was made not only ignored the large body of 1st Gen Camaro knowledge, it made an uncalled for swipe at Jerry MacNeish. No one has examined more cars. Like him or not but respect his knowledge.

Meanwhile, I'll wait for proof.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

You know what is great about knowing all these workers after writing the book on the plant? The ability to pick up the phone and ask about a specific issue.

So I just did, and the reply was as follows:

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;When there was an issue with the wrong color grill it was usually due to a replacement worker that was not familiar with the element&quot;

&quot;It was rarely an issue of running out of grill stock but a bin selection error by the employee&quot;

&quot;Then we found the error it would be worked later on a repair ticket&quot;

&quot;Replacing the wrong grill in those days was not a high priority for us, we typically sent that on to the dealer as a minor defect&quot;

&quot;The key was to get a grille into the car that would fit and allow the other elements to proceed to complete the build of the unit&quot;</span>

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

JL8Tom,

Here are some simple things that I figured out:

Most Judging is partisan to a degree and it has to be otherwise a show with no rules becomes a nightmare to govern for the participants.

Most Websites are also the same way as there is pressure to conform. This site is a rare exception where respectful debate is permitted with an occasional thread lock then someone gets a case of sore paws.

What many miss is judging or forums will never replace the first hand experience of the builders when it comes to explaining an exception, and I am honored to have ready access to a number of these fine men today when I need to ask.

On your specific car and grill? The Superintendent stated &quot;absolutely&quot;. So there is your Proof for what it is worth.... .

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Replacing the wrong grill in those days was not a high priority for us, we typically sent that on to the dealer as a minor defect&quot;</div></div>

So it was then past onto the dealership to correct it.That jives with what I've learned from former salesman back then.And they usually didn't care unless the customer spoke up about it,which was almost never.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Exactly.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

I must admit reading this thread has been an education. Keep it coming!

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Never discount human error on a manufacture production line. And i am sure there were plenty of factory mistakes.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

I would have to think that on more than a few occasions a factory anomaly managed to slip by the inspectors and make it to a customer.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Per a supervisor on the Ford assembly lines in the '60s and '70s: You kept the line going but couldn't downgrade a part. An example he gave was that it was OK to put a large battery tray (and even a larger HD battery) into a car if you ran out of small battery trays, but you couldn't put a small battery tray into a car that was supposed to be fitted with a large one. Another example would be to put a nicer steering wheel into a base model car, but not vice versa. I would think that a black vs. argent grille would be considered an equivalent part that would be an acceptable substitute (not requiring rework) if GM had a similar policy.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

It does a bit of a disservice to the originality portion of the discussion when normalitive practice takes priority over originality. With each consensious car that is created a bit more history is lost.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Nothing anyone has stated proves <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> car was built that way.

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing anyone has stated proves <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> car was built that way. </div></div>

Correct. But the so called black grill myth that you are making reference to has a basis as an assembly line mistake.

What we have then is first hand knowledge from the line that it did happen.

The better question is why not this specific car then? It's a great car by any measure why not focus on the good stuff?

Re: Stripe Delete JL8 Z28
 

Phil...What we have <span style="font-weight: bold">here</span> is not first hand knowledge. It is being told to us by you saying a guy you know said he worked on the line. Doesn't mean it isn't correct but it can't really be positively relied upon. It could have come off the line that way but I would sure like to look at it up close.