Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Dead on it's axles. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img]

I've been trying to isolate a driveline vibration since I got the car on the road.

I just found it...the hard way. Thank God it happened in the garage while the car was up on jack stands.

Damage report:

Driveshaft: now a 2 piece.

Exhaust system: waylayed.

Transmission: Schrapnel all under the car if that tells you anything.

Pics and video to come shortly.

I have just about had enough...I feel like I'm gonna puke.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

oooof [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Hang in there Eric -- that's why we put destruct systems on missiles ... something is bound to go haywire.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Good thing you were not under there inspecting things when it let go! Ouch!

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I had the car up in the air today to swap out the existing 3&quot; driveshaft for another (oem) 3 1/2&quot; unit I picked up from a friend. The OEM unit was the exact same length as the existing one which I had built locally for the car years ago, and I was pretty sure the existing 3&quot; unit was going beyond it's critical speed limit. Although the charts said it should've been good for ~4700 rpm, I never got it that far. The highest I've had it up to was just over 4000 in 4th gear.

http://www.markwilliams.com/Images/critspeed.jpg

The OEM shaft didn't appear to make any appreciable difference in the vibration levels--as soon as it got to ~4000 it started to vibrate.

I reinstalled the 3&quot; shaft and decided to video the rear tires to see if I had a wobbly rim or an out-of-round tire.

Here's the first video:

http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums/...psl8qdnrez.mp4

The second video of the drivers side was too dark, so I re-shot it. As soon as the tach hit 4000 in 4th, all hell broke loose.

http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums/...ps73g92xhw.mp4

Part of the aftermath:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps8jwpt5pc.jpg

I am within a whisker of throwing in the towel at this point. I have fought tooth and nail to get this car de-bugged, and as soon as one issue was resolved another came up. I now have a <span style="font-weight: bold">VERY</span> expensive hunk of garage art sitting on jackstands with a wasted trans, a wasted exhaust system from the X pipe to the mufflers, and who knows if the rear end got hurt, I haven't checked that yet. The floor took a hell of a beating as well, but again I haven't mustered the courage to crawl back under the car again and assess the severity of the damage.

And to top it all off, I'd just made phone calls today to inquire about having a new driveshaft made for the car. Due to the length (60&quot; center-to-center) everyone said either 4&quot; aluminum--which there wasn't room for under the car, or 3 1/2&quot; carbon fiber--to the tune of well over $1K. There's no way I could swing that right now, while desperately trying to get my father's old house into marketable condition which is quickly bleeding me out.

Sure wish I would've video taped the driveshaft first--I was going to video it right after the drivers side rear tire.

Somebody please wake me up, this has to be a bad dream.....

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I call for a collection to help out a fellow car lover. I put up the first $100.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Going back to square one sucks.
Here is hoping the rest of the damage is minimal.
Last year, after spending the winter building a weird combo turbocharged engine for my old Bimmer, I installed the engine, and got it running. The freeze plug right over the turbo was leaking. Can't pull the turbo (aftermarket manifold and turbo) without pulling the head..... well, you get the picture.

Thankfully, neither you nor anyone else was hurt. Can you imagine if this happened while going down the road?

Wish I was in your neighborhood Eric. Seriously, I would come over and help.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Great idea.
Just sent a paypal payment to:

[email protected]

It is a gift, so don't you dare declare it as income Eric.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I don't know what to do or say here...this is very awkward...

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Don't worry about it,Eric. I have never met you but ever since I first joined the site you've always seemed to go out of your way to help people with advice, so this is good karma. People help each other...just the way it should be. My paypal is coming tomorrow. Get your ride back cruising.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

You say thank you and move on. No need for any awkwardness.

I had some very close friends (H&amp;W) back in the 70's who were in the ministry. I would offer to buy their lunch from time to time. They always declined. One day I told them: &quot;you know, I think the only thing that would keep you from accepting a gift from me is your pride&quot; Wife said: &quot;After further thought, we graciously accept. Thank you.&quot;

We all need help from time to time, in many different ways.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I'm very sorry to see this Eric. I'm still a bit confused what caused this. Was the driveshaft simply out if balance? It seems like the driveshaft had very little load on it other than the high rpm since it was off the ground. Thank goodness the driveshaft didn't pop the car off the stands.

Jason

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

OMG...I sent a donation. You all have to watch the video. It spits the driveshaft and Eric simply says &quot;Found it&quot;. That sucks but I got a good chuckle out of that. I guess you found the vibration.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Just watched it again and I am still laughing at your comment..... sorry for your plight but you did make it funny.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

The diameter of the shaft was the issue. The 3&quot; shaft went past it's &quot;critical speed&quot; which is the point where the shaft begins to &quot;jump rope&quot; in the middle. What threw me off was I was experiencing vibration several hundred rpm lower than the critical speed chart says it should've been.

Since there isn't room for a 3 1/2&quot;+ steel or aluminum shaft, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and go carbon fiber.

It's that or put everything back to stock, sell the car and go from there.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just watched it again and I am still laughing at your comment..... sorry for your plight but you did make it funny. </div></div>

A form of gallows humor, as it were.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

So you are saying another 1/4&quot; won't fit ?

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

And thank you.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are saying another 1/4&quot; won't fit ? </div></div>

Nope. Due to the big oil pan I had to raise the engine up on the mounts which screwed up the driveline angles (which I had resolved to within 1/2° of perfect) which required jacking up the back of the trans to compensate--goodbye tunnel clearance. I could barely get my fingers between the pinion yoke and the trans tunnel.

3 1/2&quot; <span style="font-style: italic">maybe</span> if I dropped the trans down some again, larger, no way.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Very sorry to hear of this Eric but your calm &quot;Found it&quot; comment as you step out of the car will now be forever locked into the good humor history.

Just a quick story about accepting money or help from others and from their viewpoint instead of yours. Over many years while I was getting my business and the LS6 Registry in full swing I had a very good friend (most of us knew him) try to send me money on several occasions to help me get going. I turned him down EVERY time due in part to pride (just like you Eric). He even invited me and Annie to a charity he was putting on where we graciously attended. Once we arrived he tried again to supply us with pick up service from the airport, a luxury vehicle and a very expensive room at a posh hotel. Again I graciously declined but it did not stop. Fast forward to his untimely death. I mistakenly had the misfortune of telling one of his closest friends of his passing expecting that he obviously would have already known. He did not! Days later in conversation with this mutual friend he informed me that I had really hurt this person's feelings several times by not accepting his help when it was offered. He reminded me of how much money this person had and the ONE thing in life that made him very happy (other than his family) was when he was able to help other people he felt he could help. I took that away from him. Because of this unfortunate event I now politely decline the first time and then accept and thank the giver very much for their help.

Moral of the story Eric, let people help when they offer. It is what THEY want to do and it makes THEM happy and does NOT make you any less of a person.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

A donation has been sent to your paypal Eric
The way i see it everyone needs some help now and then.
Thank God no one was hurt ,and as I told you on the phone, metal is fixable,skin not always so much
Besides,i'd just be spending it on a car part anyhow,lol!
And dont ever give up,these trials make it worth even more in the end even if it doesnt seem so now
If it were easy everyone would be doing it
Nick in CO

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Thank you guys. While this is incredibly awkward for me, my gratitude is sincere.

Eric

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Don't you dare sell the Chevelle over this. Ask Kwhizz about getting a car right!

Donation sent.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...pssrh8xb1f.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...pskycchdi5.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...pstpopypny.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psjdx34rvx.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps5rwjpwdr.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psutyevhi9.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...pslwcldgaq.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psbuwmo4vp.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps8yrj1g69.jpg

There's more damage on the driver's side but I didn't feel like crawling under the car again.

It even blew the shifter apart.

Aside from the damage to the car, the part that sickens me most is that this trans was one built for me by a friend who's since passed away.

Once I find the motivation to pull the remnants from the car, I'll get the box apart and see if anything can be salvaged. Thankfully I have a friend who's handy with Muncies.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Eric, so sorry to see this.

Is there any recourse with the drive shaft company? It seems to me like it was never right...

Dan

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Whew, buddy. I feel for you. The Muncie aside, it could have been a lot worse.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Eric, I don't know you personally, however from what I've read here you are a stand-up guy, so I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable with this. I have a rebuilt M20 sitting in the shop here. I bought it from Sammy here on the site a few years ago as a spare. I will loan this trans to you for as long as you need it. If I were a rich man, I'd just give it to you, but alas, I aint. If you want it, I will get it to you.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Dan;

More than doubtful. It was built ~8 years ago, and despite the fact that it doesn't even have 100 miles on it, I'm sure they wouldn't stand behind it.

Tony N.;

Agreed, and I am grateful no one got hurt.

Tony W.;

That is insanely generous and I am very grateful for your offer, but I wouldn't want to take the chance that something might happen to it while in my possession. That aside, I'm not even sure if I'm going back to a Muncie based trans at this point.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

In lieu of donations, if anyone's looking for a carb, I've got some GREAT deals listed in the classified section.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

She left her purse out......and everyone knows I'm not responsible for my actions.......Donation sent.......

Ken

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I had a similar thing happen to me....I also broke the drive shaft in two pieces. My problem was a faulty u-joint.

It can all be repaired....luckily no one got hurt.

Dan

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

And please stop doing that up on jackstands. Bad things can happen like slam on the brakes and have inertia throw the car off the stands etc.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I was went back to the first video a few times, listen closely as the wheel speed slows down, something just does not sound right in the rear, I would look their first. My 2 cents...

Joel

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I've seen where a bad (cracked) transmission tailshaft caused a similar disaster to this. Fella knew it was cracked but just figured he could live with the small drip leak and everything would be fine. Unfortunately, there's nothing left of Eric's to analyze but I do see the bushing from it slid down on the front yoke. One other thing that comes to mind is if that 12 bolt still has a crush sleeve in it or not. If the front pinion seal ever needed changed (or the pinion yoke was ever replaced/upgraded) and the proper torque/crush was not put back on that pinion nut, bad things can happen. Just throwing these out there as food for thought, Eric. We all know you're a pretty handy guy!

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope. Due to the big oil pan I had to raise the engine up on the mounts ... </div></div>
Why run that pan? Seems like there should be some other pan options that keep the driveline angles correct. Cheaper than the fancy driveshaft!
Then again, what do I know about Chevelle engine space - nothing... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Joel;

I haven't pulled the cover yet, but the rear end turned fine w/o any tight spots, binding, etc. yesterday while I was removing the broken rear section of the driveshaft. I will pull the cover and verify things before putting the car back together.

Mark;

The trans was fresh and the yoke slid in with ease. There weren't any signs of damage there that I'm aware of.

The rear end was built with a solid pinion spacer. I'll only use a crush sleeve on a stock build.

Kurt;

The pan is a deep sump design which resolved a serious oil control issue, plus it was worth over 25 HP on the dyno over another &quot;race&quot; oil pan.

At this point I've narrowed my options down to the following:

1) Repair and put the Muncie based trans back in and figure out how to get a 4&quot; drive shaft under the car. This means some sort of trans tunnel surgery, but what the hell at this point, right?--the old shaft just started the process for me.

2) Find a suitable manual trans that has a longer tail section which by default reduces the length of the driveshaft which in turn reduces the critical speed issue and allows the use of a smaller diameter driveshaft.

3) For the time being, put a long tail shaft 400 Turbo in the car. The long shaft 400 is 9.5&quot; longer than the short shaft version which takes the driveshaft from 60&quot; down to 51.5&quot;. That would move the pinion yoke back far enough to make room for the use of a 3.5&quot; mild steel shaft which has a critical speed limit of 7418 rpm @ 52&quot; or a CM shaft which is good to just over 7500.

I need to get the busted box out and see what I have left to work with and go from there....but as much as I hate to say it, the 400 Turbo is looking like a pretty attractive solution at this point.

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

1965-68 Pontiac full-size Muncie is 6&quot; longer than the standard Muncie(and I know where some are)...

I've seen this kind of explosion, check the insides of that Muncie real good... Crash

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

I was looking at those last night on eBay--it appears the trans mount pad is moved back quite a ways on the Pontiac tail housings, not sure if I can move my crossmember back that far? Also not sure about the shifter location.

MAN this stuff sure seemed a lot easier 30 years ago...

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

This is bad :-(

Are you sure all the angles are OK? It's not like your Chevelle is extended to be a limo so a standard driveshaft should cope with your setup. I don't see any need for a 4&quot; expensive driveshaft.

I suspect some kind of binding in the joints causing this.

Don't give up, just fix it so you can enjoy it!!

Jan

Re: Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....
 

Driveline angles were within 1/2° of perfect--I had to raise the back of the trans quite a bit to achieve this, which is why there was no room for a larger diameter driveshaft.

The driveshaft and u-joints was built new for the car in ~2006/2007 and had less than 100 miles on it.